CP2077 really hates mirrors

[Barsenthor]

Viewport mirrors are insanely expensive the more complex the scene is the more expensive they are since you are essentially rendering it twice. Duke3D also had Scene Space reflections, the darkness barely had any shaders on most materials in CP2077 every object has like 20 different material shaders...

This isn't unique to Cyberpunk mirrors and scene space reflections disappeared over the past 10-15 years from games because how expensive they are not because developers can't make mirrors.

So why they are being put everywhere, where you can put any reflection-able surface in games that supports RT reflections? Control is just one big office with tones of windows, Wolfenstein Young Blood same with retro future Paris, as near future London in Watch Dog: Legion?

 

[Gillian_Seed]

Authentic Cyberpunk 2077 reflection simulator:

 

[zorba1138]

Maybe, but still they could add a few old-fashon mirrors with planar reflections technology, which every game uses for mirrors and other reflecting surfaces.
Nah, my guess the main reason is that V model and animations are just not done good enough for showing him somewhere beyond scripted cutscenes

Planar reflections cost a fortune with deferred rendering and which is why they are so rare, when they are used they are often used for with limitations such as removing most objects including the player from the reflection.
Planar reflections also can't capture complex materials, global illumination and most of the lights in this game.

Also the player isn't reflected in RT reflections either because they don't have a head in FFP

 

[Krul2k]

Mirrors are insanely computationally expensive because the are scene space reflections which is pretty much a no go with modern rendering techniques.

The interactive mirrors in the game are essentially another viewport which renders the scene from another perspective.

Ray tracing is actually the cheapest way of getting proper scene space reflections today, there's a reason why your FPS drops when you view the mirror.

As far as issues with the model, Cyberpunk used a unified TPP/FPP model, in FPP you have no head it's it's only there for the initial shadow pass which does mean you have a head that is rendered into the shadow buffer but after that your head isn't there.

That's why when you switch to a TPP mode e.g. a bike there can be are pop-in for your head and headgear when you see those assets being streamed and loaded.

The delay is likely a glitch due to your head not having a higher priority than other assets in the game.

You don't see that when hacking cameras because there's enough time for your head to load properly.

Thnxz m8

 

[ahtis89]

[...] Yes mirrors cost alot of rendering power but games have done just fine with creating mirrors in games for years.

Also this game has RTX that creates more reflections to the world. How normal mirror is no difference? It all comes down to the fact that the game has to draw the character model when you want to active a mirror. It's just a stupid design decision from the developers.

 

[faverodefavero]

Yet Watch Dog Legion went all in with reflections loaded reflective surfaces. On 3080 max/ultra setting on 4K with with dlss on I get 40-50fps, not the smoothest experience but hell its the most mind blowing one.

While for CP77 it’s expensive?

CP2077 performance optimization is very unfortunately even worst

Post automatically merged: Jan 2, 2021

One should at least activatable full body mirros with different poses in game, specially in clothing stores, allowing the player to try out new clothes before buying them.

 

[mbrto]

i love the mirror scenes

 

[LilithVX]

We'll see our self in mirrors the day when CDPR create a full third person model with new animations, that we can only see in reflections. This is of course never gonna happen. And even though I'm a modder myself actually making new animations for the already existing third person body (used in photomode) is gonna take too long for most to care about.

 

[frellingfahrbot]

Anyone who claims that having mirrors/windows/etc reflecting surfaces that show player character is somehow impossible to do or don't add anything to the game need to play Control (RTX on). Seeing how well your own reflections work in that game and what they add to the atmosphere is unreal.

 

[Fuse_00]

And even though I'm a modder myself actually making new animations for the already existing third person body (used in photomode) is gonna take too long for most to care about.

How do you do that? Do Cyberpunk modding tools allow to import fully rigged body into 3d editor, edit and export? You edit rig/skinning? Or keys of animation? I'm mostly texture/model modder, but used to create some animation and rigging for Skyrim back in the days. I can try to help too.

 

[LordCorvin1]

You would think that a basic mirror would still exist in a world in 2077.

This game has make a hassle if you wanna see yourself in anyway in this world. I remember one review told that "yes you will see yourself from mirrors and there's few cut scenes where V is visible.

I would way that was a big NOPE. The is only ONE cut scene where you can see yourself and that is in the end when the game end.

Even the car mirrors are gone in this game. There is a camera on both sides of the car side mirrors should be. And if there is a mirror on the streets or in apartments / bathrooms, they are gray "electric" mirrors. And huge load times until you see yourself.

But when you hack cameras, you can actually see yourself just fine and there's never bugs or glitches with the outfits. Why the normal mirrors are so hard? Is it because they wanted that funny "bug mirror" with johnny to appear randomly? Only CDPR knows.

You don't understand, it's all a big conspiracy. You know why V can't die? He's a vampire. Those 6 months to live? a lie, Alt just never met vampires before. Cyberpunk 2077 is just a tie in to Vampires the Masquerade Bloodlines 2. Why do you think that game keeps getting delayed?

 

[gogdudedavid]

I'm sorry to compare red Dead 2 with this game but we can't have such mirorring fake animations in 2020. It's not even like death Stranding. It's really something from 10 years ago.

They don't know how to code a software.

 

[Moxy3]

You don't understand, it's all a big conspiracy. You know why V can't die? He's a vampire. Those 6 months to live? a lie, Alt just never met vampires before. Cyberpunk 2077 is just a tie in to Vampires the Masquerade Bloodlines 2. Why do you think that game keeps getting delayed?

Vampires the Masquerade Bloodlines 2 is the only game i am looking forward to right now. I hope they wont abandon their customers like CDPR did and stay true to their origins, creating a good RPG and not changing it in the middle of production to an action looter shooter.

 

[ahtis89]

You don't understand, it's all a big conspiracy. You know why V can't die? He's a vampire. Those 6 months to live? a lie, Alt just never met vampires before. Cyberpunk 2077 is just a tie in to Vampires the Masquerade Bloodlines 2. Why do you think that game keeps getting delayed?

There was also some talk about vampires on the radio once in Night City. Might be on to something.

 

[gogdudedavid]

Vampires the Masquerade Bloodlines 2 is the only game i am looking forward to right now. I hope they wont abandon their customers like CDPR did and stay true to their origins, creating a good RPG and not changing it in the middle of production to an action looter shooter.

EXACTLY!
A game with choices and consequences and deep immersion.
Can't wait!

 

[Steelebeaver]

Isn't Vampire the Masquerade bloodlines 2 being worked by a completely different company that does not have a whole lot of experience making open ended RPGs? CDPR feels like a Witcher game, I don't know why I would expect any continuity with VM:B2.

 

[Moxy3]

Isn't Vampire the Masquerade bloodlines 2 being worked by a completely different company that does not have a whole lot of experience making open ended RPGs? CDPR feels like a Witcher game, I don't know why I would expect any continuity with VM:B2.

Well, that is true but honestly.. Look at CDPR and Cyberpunk.
CDPR with experience still managed to screw up Cyberpunk.

Also, they are not forcing an actor to play a role, so at least we have our own Story. We will see how it turns out, waiting for release and reviews first but i dont think they can make it any worse than Cyberpunk.

 

[Steelebeaver]

Well, that is true but honestly.. Look at CDPR and Cyberpunk.
CDPR with experience still managed to screw up Cyberpunk.

Also, they are not forcing an actor to play a role, so at least we have our own Story. We will see how it turns out, waiting for release and reviews first but i dont think they can make it any worse than Cyberpunk.

Truthfully, hoping for the best with VM:B2, I am trying to limit my expectations knowing that Troika was a very unique studio. I guess I don't feel CDPR screwed things up per se, I guess I have always viewed the witcher developer as a Euro-RPG developer like Pirahna Bytes. But I can understand why a lot of people, given the hype, might have had huge expectations.

 

[LordCorvin1]

Vampires the Masquerade Bloodlines 2 is the only game i am looking forward to right now. I hope they wont abandon their customers like CDPR did and stay true to their origins, creating a good RPG and not changing it in the middle of production to an action looter shooter.

I wouldn't keep my hopes up. They fired the original writer back in August.

Lead writer and director fired from Vampire: The Masquerade — Bloodlines 2

‘That this came as a shock to me is underselling it,’ says Brian Mitsoda

www.polygon.com

 

[MRM70]

We'll see our self in mirrors the day when CDPR create a full third person model with new animations, that we can only see in reflections. This is of course never gonna happen. And even though I'm a modder myself actually making new animations for the already existing third person body (used in photomode) is gonna take too long for most to care about.

CDPR will have to make 3rd person model and animation for player characters. Otherwise, I don't see multiplayer working.