Difficulty modes... What should they entail?

[wisdom000]

Difficulty modes... What should they entail?

Now, everyone has their own preferences, everyone has their own tastes!

That being said I have heard a lot of ideas, some truly great ones, about how the various difficulty modes should be handled, the most notable being that on the highest difficulty level, you die once, then have to start all over again.

But what about the levels in between? Inflated health for enemies? More Enemies? More difficult mechanics, say for shooting, driving, etc...? Less Health? No prompts or hints?

I am not really sure... to be honest, I play most games on normal difficulty level, because I don't really care. Sometimes I will switch to the highest level on subsequent play throughs, just for the challenge, but in a longer game or a sandbox game, there just doesn't seem to be much of a point usually. On games I do decide to play through again, it has to be my choice to do so, because I thought the game was fun and it sounds ginchy... if the game forces me to replay to unlock everything then it;s really no longer any fun for for me, instead it feels like I am being cocksmacked. It's insulting and it usually results in the game just getting binned, never to be played again.

I will say this... I bloody hate the idea that higher difficulties unlock things you can't get in the regular game.... and I hate it tenfold if you have to play through just to unlock the higher difficulty levels. Just let me play at the highest difficulty level right from the start, and by god if their are exclusives that only unlock in the higher difficulty levels, then state that shit clearly up front. Don't let me get half way through the game just to find out because I am playing on Normal that I can't get the Uber Rifle of Butthurting without starting over again from scratch.

Playing on higher difficulty should be it's own reqward... if you really need to give people something for it, well thats what tropies and achievements are for I guess.

 

[Sardukhar]

And should it just be combat? Or should the difficulties extend across other areas like conversation, XP and loot?

Not that you get only certain loot, but that at lower difficulties you get more ammo, more money, etc.

As you know, I propose a PnP hardcore mode, ( called 2020 or Pondsmith Mode). Either only one life or, ( for things like bugs, crashes and the like), just one save. Other features of PnP mode would be PnP Humanity Cost, Blood loss, Limb Loss, Special Ability limitations, Head/Vital shots double damage, Armour degradation and so on.

I don't like increased HP or damage or even AI necessarily. Maybe more aggressive AI at higher difficulties? Or more enemies? I like more enemies, actually.

 

[wisdom000]

And should it just be combat? Or should the difficulties extend across other areas like conversation, XP and loot?

Not that you get only certain loot, but that at lower difficulties you get more ammo, more money, etc.

As you know, I propose a PnP hardcore mode, ( called 2020 or Pondsmith Mode). Either only one life or, ( for things like bugs, crashes and the like), just one save. Other features of PnP mode would be PnP Humanity Cost, Blood loss, Limb Loss, Special Ability limitations, Head/Vital shots double damage, Armour degradation and so on.

I don't like increased HP or damage or even AI necessarily. Maybe more aggressive AI at higher difficulties? Or more enemies? I like more enemies, actually.

pretty much agreed on all counts....

 

[227]

Inflated health for enemies?

Excuse me as I plunge a stake into the chest of this truly awful idea. You should be ashamed for even uttering the words, because you basically just said "bullet sponge." Whoever came up with bullet sponges should have their block carpet bombed.

Making shooting/driving/general mechanics more difficult also sounds truly miserable. Gameplay should feel the same regardless of the difficulty you play on.

Hopefully we'll get a game that's made more or less difficult by enemies' strategies. Like on easy they run up to you without shooting and practically line up to get shot in the face, whereas they flank you and work together intelligently on harder difficulties. Cover fire while their buddies move to get a better angle on you, that kind of thing. Stuff like improved accuracy never really sits right with me, though, because then it's like everyone's missing on purpose on normal difficulties.

 

[dragonbird]

As you know, I propose a PnP hardcore mode, ( called 2020 or Pondsmith Mode). Either only one life or, ( for things like bugs, crashes and the like), just one save. Other features of PnP mode would be PnP Humanity Cost, Blood loss, Limb Loss, Special Ability limitations, Head/Vital shots double damage, Armour degradation and so on.

I want this to be a separate option to the "difficulty" selection.

And I totally agree with 227 regarding bullet sponges. First time I've heard the phrase, but it fits, and it sucks.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

The quality and quantity of enemies should increase with difficulty, as should pay, though ammo drops should reduce.

I would also like to see an option for realism, where food and sleep become necessary for survival. Basically, turn the 'bleak' gauge up to 11.

 

[Lolssi83.811]

I'd like to be able to set custom difficulty mode where I could choose different options. Yeah don't think I'll see it either.

Often in rpgs when you change difficulty it affects your xp gained. Personally that is why I play on normal since rpgs often say "play as it was intended".

I want the combat be fast and deadly, so one or two shots and unarmored target is down. So I definately wouldn't wanna see bullet sponges. Difficulty could affect their gear level so bit better armor or guns. Most likely enemies are often pre placed somehow so don't see them going through'em again and adding more for higher difficulty and lowering for lower.
But mostly I'd like to see higher difficulty having enemies that have higher skills. So they'd be bit more accurate etc. I wouldn't wanna difficulty affecting AI at all, since that is one of major enjoyment and review factors always.

I'd be ok with metagame difficulty also (eat,sleep, etc.). Wouldn't really wanna see difficulty affecting loot that enemies drop at least, since I wanna them drop what they carry and wear. It could perhaps affect loot you find in stashes or money you gain from missions.

 

[Sardukhar]

You know, Lol, I wish we COULD see a custom difficulty mode selection.

It's a little bit important to me. I typically play on Hard or Hardcore because, as we all know, I'm terrifically well hung. AND NOT COMPENSATING.

But often I find some aspect of it tiresome. Yes I like more enemies, no shooting them fifty times with a 5.56 is stooopid. Yes I enjoy screwing up and dying in ten seconds. No, I don't like having only autosaves or checkpoints with maybe one save I can use so if my game crashes, ( I know! Windows games crash!), I have to replay the last ten minutes and rewatch two movies.

So, yeah, custom difficulty modes would be nice. Good idea.

 

[Garrison72]

Smarter AI and more health is ideal to me. And no I'm not condoning bullet sponges. Maybe more enemies as well. I liked that in Fallout 3 a higher difficulty nets you greater xp. I wish more games did that. I'm not sure difficulty should affect conversation mechanics or moral dilemmas, ie; things turning out worse when you make a 'wrong' decision.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

I would rather see more armour, or AI taking cover, than more health. Or by all means give thema better BTM.

 

[Tir_Eoghan]

I'd like to see initially a custom difficulty: Choose perma death, ease of acquiring XP, etc.

Certain things I would like high difficulty (Perma Death, a character dies and it's gone, you must find another to add to your team), but I would like acquiring xp low difficulty. I can't stand the sit around and kill snakes for hours that is so common in many RPG's. That is why PnP RPG's with a competent dungeon master are so much more enjoyable, once you've gone through the new player stuff and had your character moments, the dungeon master can just award the required xp to advance to next level (or levels) so you can get to the next tougher fun story event.

Finally, I'd like to see a dynamically ramped up difficulty based on how well your doing in the game. There should never be a moment where you are flush with cash bullets, vehicles, weapons, and territory without anything meaningful to do with all that wealth/resources. If you are tougher and more flush with resources, tougher opponents with equal resources should start noticing you and working to set you back a few pegs.
Granted I also don't want to see the ludicrous level specific area absurdity that MMO's have and many single player games have. People of different wealth and resources generally are all packed together in the same area of the city (just some on the streets and some in the penthouses above them), as naturally it takes people lower on the totem pole to support those higher on the totem pole and vice versa. It's basic economics.

 

[Tir_Eoghan]

In addition, just because someone is higher level, and "the boss" so to speak. Does not, and should not mean he is actually tougher to kill. In fact especially in a Cyberpunk world like this, the boss should be squishy and fairly easy to kill, it's just getting to him that should be tough. His bodyguards can and should be elite and the best, yet he himself is likely to only be wearing a basic bullet proof vest (if even that). Granted he should be quite hard to find, as any body guard team worth the cost of their badges should know how to extract their VIP at a moments notice (via helicopter, secret passageways, etc.).

 

[Sardukhar]

More XP on higher difficulty is nice, too. Nothing major, say 10%. You'll need those extra skillpoints after all.

I would hope that they stick to PnP and everyone - everyone - has the same 40 health and that Mortal starts at 13 points of damage.

Grinding monster for XP is really only common in MMOs, not SP rpg's, with a few exceptions. I guess you-could- do that, but CP2020 doesn't reward XP for kills typically. It's a skill-based system and using a skill a lot doesn't mean you get more than a couple IP for it. If at all. You have to do something important, really stupid or really well in order to get more than a few base Improvement Points.
I so love this game. I really do. They thought of almost everything.

 

[Tir_Eoghan]

ooh, wicked, didn't realize 2020 was skill based. Makes so much more sense in a Cyberpunk universe. I like the PnP mortality rules you pointed out too, makes so much sense. The key naturally should be to avoid getting damaged (as any sane person in real life would do), and the greater your skills the greater aptitude you may have towards damage avoidance.

I really ought to purchase a copy of 2020.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

More XP on higher difficulty is nice, too. Nothing major, say 10%. You'll need those extra skillpoints after all.

I would hope that they stick to PnP and everyone - everyone - has the same 40 health and that Mortal starts at 13 points of damage.

15% feels like a good number.

I don't know about a specific '40 dots' for health, but as long as it follows that form of pattern/system, then I will be happy. And bleeding to death needs to be a possibility.

Grinding monster for XP is really only common in MMOs, not SP rpg's, with a few exceptions.

Chapter 2 of The Witcher, I cleared that swamp a good few times, and the crypt, for XP and cash. But as you said, exception to the rule.

 

[A T Ś]

Something from me:

* One death one save - hardcore mode - MUST

* prefferably 3 usual modes: normal/challenge/hard

* each mode gives;

- more and better enemies
- harder skill/stat checks
- greater humanity loss

IMO humanity loss and all possible injuries should be an obligatory element of the game as they are very strongly connected with all the cyberware and augumentation which are somewhat the most visible feature of the cyberpunk obviously...

+ extra EXP is a non-sense I believe... If one desires a more challenging gameplay then he/she gets one by confronting tougher/more intelligent enemies in more quantity, by having more problems with skill and stat checks the same way one gets more exp beacause there are more guys to put asleep/be killed more or harder locks to be picked and terminals to be hacked etc. SO IT IS ALREADY THERE...

 

[wisdom000]

Excuse me as I plunge a stake into the chest of this truly awful idea. You should be ashamed for even uttering the words, because you basically just said "bullet sponge." Whoever came up with bullet sponges should have their block carpet bombed.

Making shooting/driving/general mechanics more difficult also sounds truly miserable. Gameplay should feel the same regardless of the difficulty you play on.

Hopefully we'll get a game that's made more or less difficult by enemies' strategies. Like on easy they run up to you without shooting and practically line up to get shot in the face, whereas they flank you and work together intelligently on harder difficulties. Cover fire while their buddies move to get a better angle on you, that kind of thing. Stuff like improved accuracy never really sits right with me, though, because then it's like everyone's missing on purpose on normal difficulties.

I wasn't suggesting them, I was stating thats how it's been handled in the past.

I don't want dumbed down enemies in any mode, to me thats as awful an idea as making them "bullet sponges".

More enemies is a good thing however.

And the only way less ammo dropping from corpses work for is if the enemy can actually run out of ammo. I bloody despise when they have unlimited ammo shooting at me, but when I loot them I get less than a full mag of ammo total.

 

[wisdom000]

More XP on higher difficulty is nice, too. Nothing major, say 10%. You'll need those extra skillpoints after all.

I would hope that they stick to PnP and everyone - everyone - has the same 40 health and that Mortal starts at 13 points of damage.

Grinding monster for XP is really only common in MMOs, not SP rpg's, with a few exceptions. I guess you-could- do that, but CP2020 doesn't reward XP for kills typically. It's a skill-based system and using a skill a lot doesn't mean you get more than a couple IP for it. If at all. You have to do something important, really stupid or really well in order to get more than a few base Improvement Points.
I so love this game. I really do. They thought of almost everything.

I can get behind all this.

 

[A T Ś]

I can get behind all this.

Yeah it sounds all cool with that 'doing something important gives you EXP/IP'... Okay lets agree that doing sth often does not earn you a development of the skill but it still makes you better at what you do so what would be the things which give you improvement? And how can you ignore skill improvement by repeating the action successfuly? And I do not mean killing snakes ad infinitum but just using same skill in different tasks/places etc.

 

[freakymax.675]

My dream RPG- would consider to add more pivot points in scenario when difficulty increses.
as a revard and all above what just Spider Jerusalem have said.

That will be just a dream game evhen on hardest difficulty You will have more problems as well .

so the gameplay will be bit diffrent and worth of playing thru again.
in some points in scenario that will leed to make enemies even hardes by giving them some extra
script for changing position or escape.
And brake a repetitive gameplay. I know it's not gonna hapen .