If I remember right boxing, judo, and wrestling have a multiplier of 1 in the book. Apparently most people have changed that in their house rules.
If I remember right boxing, judo, and wrestling have a multiplier of 1 in the book. Apparently most people have changed that in their house rules.
Judo, Boxing and Wrestling are all IP mod 1. Karate is 2. So's Savate. This is from Pacific Rim and I generally use it as final. Partly because it came out later and because they rebalanced again. Tae Kwan Do is still better for bonuses than Thai Kick Boxing, but only a little. Of course it also only costs 3 IP and not 4 like TKB, but hey...whatever. Anyway, I figure that means they revised it once again and use it as final.
It's simple really. Brawler + cyberlimb > Martial artist without. Shit, I can't think of a single Martial Art I somewhat understand that couldn't be obliterated with any given cyberlimb, and that includes my favorite, jiu jitsu. In fact, against a cyberarm in particular, stuff like Judo, Wrestling etc is really stupidly dangerous, and not in a good way. anywhere close enough for a grab is repeated automatic crushing.
Incidentally, Captain Death himself used Brawl for all his rolls to grab corporate strike team-leaders ankles, prior to using them as clubs. Then, when they're messy, you just crush their ankles and grab another. Sometimes bowling ball-wise. Like two fingers in the eyes and one in the mouth. True, boots aren't as hurty as helmeted heads, but the terror factor involved in being beaten to death with your colleagues, all while a voice booms "DOOM TO THE EVILDOERS!" is not to be underestimated...
EDIT: Also, as with what Cris was saying, sometimes skills on top of brawl can be really useful in dirty fighting. A friend watched a great fight out back of a pub, where a bouncer squared off against a grizzled country farm laborer of some type. The bouncer decided to go for the quick win and grabbed the guys nuts and started twisting and squeezing. The country guy just kept muttering "Leggo me nuts" and advancing, until he was in position, and promptly bit off/through the front of the bouncer's nose, then whaled on him while he screamed and tried to stanch the bleeding. When asked why the nose biting (by my mate) the guy muttered "That was for me nuts.", then walked, not limped, out of the pub. That's where resist torture/drugs comes into play people...
Incidentally, Captain Death himself used Brawl for all his rolls to grab corporate strike team-leaders ankles, prior to using them as clubs. Then, when they're messy, you just crush their ankles and grab another. Sometimes bowling ball-wise. Like two fingers in the eyes and one in the mouth. True, boots aren't as hurty as helmeted heads, but the terror factor involved in being beaten to death with your colleagues, all while a voice booms "DOOM TO THE EVILDOERS!" is not to be underestimated...
EDIT: Also, as with what Cris was saying, sometimes skills on top of brawl can be really useful in dirty fighting. A friend watched a great fight out back of a pub, where a bouncer squared off against a grizzled country farm laborer of some type. The bouncer decided to go for the quick win and grabbed the guys nuts and started twisting and squeezing. The country guy just kept muttering "Leggo me nuts" and advancing, until he was in position, and promptly bit off/through the front of the bouncer's nose, then whaled on him while he screamed and tried to stanch the bleeding. When asked why the nose biting (by my mate) the guy muttered "That was for me nuts.", then walked, not limped, out of the pub. That's where resist torture/drugs comes into play people...
The problem with the official RAW for the Martial Arts, including PAC Rim, was that they followed no formula whatsoever, and really seemed to be just made up on the spot in terms of assigning a difficulty modifier. Even before Interlock Unlimited I re-wrote and expanded the Martial Arts tables, creating a formula that was consistant... the total number of bonuses the martial art gives determines it's difficulty mod, with everything being at least a 2. Their are also rules now for creating your own, and how to assign bonuses and difficulty mods, for everyone who is a fan of MMA.
You want a 1 mod, take brawl/melee.
Though i do have to revisit some of the individual arts and rejigger their stats.
Our ref an age ago did the same thing. And considering at the time he had done Akido and was then doing Karate, with some Capoeira on the side, he had some working knowledge of M.Arts. Obviously it doesn't really translate into game mechanics totally, but it was a pretty extensive set of rules. Will be the first update on my site in over a decade, if I pull my finger out.
Just noticed an old chestnut in "Listen Up";
When it comes to Melee vs Martial Arts, (specifically with weapons,) Melee only counts as gals it's actual level.
IE:
Melee 6 vs Fencing 5 = Melee would only count as 3, (half.)
When it comes to Melee vs Martial Arts, (specifically with weapons,) Melee only counts as gals it's actual level.
IE:
Melee 6 vs Fencing 5 = Melee would only count as 3, (half.)
The game let you have multiple attacks without using a second action in some instances. I thought punching was one of those.
That said, martial arts is over powered in cyberpunk compared to brawling. When have you ever seen martial arts used in a real fight? Never.
That said, martial arts is over powered in cyberpunk compared to brawling. When have you ever seen martial arts used in a real fight? Never.
When I was a Doorman I saw a fellow bouncer use some textbook kickboxing to defend a doorway against a boxer and I've even seen a homeless guy use capoeira to defend himself against 5 assailants. (Dumb bastards didn't know what hit them.)
a) which instances? I'm not aware of any free multiple action moves
b)I could dig up video of at least one MMA fighter doing it for real, and I've used Shotokan moves for real, so there's that...friends of mine who are bouncers and guards have used joint locks and even elbow or knee strikes. I have no idea where this idea that martial arts weren't for fighting comes from. Take anyone fast and nasty enough at fighting and teach them striking, locks, breathing and balance moves. Watch them get a lot better.
b)I could dig up video of at least one MMA fighter doing it for real, and I've used Shotokan moves for real, so there's that...friends of mine who are bouncers and guards have used joint locks and even elbow or knee strikes. I have no idea where this idea that martial arts weren't for fighting comes from. Take anyone fast and nasty enough at fighting and teach them striking, locks, breathing and balance moves. Watch them get a lot better.
I've seen one or two instances where M.arts were using in a real 'stand up' fight. Was over very quickly. Also had a mate who very quickly 'solved' a handbag snatching. Woman had her handbag snatched from her arm and the guy went to run past my mate. The woman had screamed out "thief!", by which time the guy was running by my mate. next second he's wondering how he got on the ground and was pinned by this guy. Handy that it happened just down the street from a police station. Police were there in less than a minute, asked my mate what happened, asked a witness who worked in a store where the take down happened in front of. The police got my mates contact details, but he never heard from them again. At the time I think he was amongst the highest trained in Aikido in his dojo, as well as a brown belt in a form of Karate. He went on to gain his black belt (and maybe a dan?), and went on to Capoeira.
Seen a few people do Capoeira, man that is an awesome thing to watch. There's a dodgy martial art movie where the main art is Capoeira (Only the Strong), great action if you want to see plenty of Capoeira). Not so much the plot. Then again, it is a Mark Dacascos movie.
A few years ago there were a few street performers in my local town, Guys and Girls from Brazil and they were fully doing Capoeira in the plaza. I stopped by and watched them for a while, and surprised them that I know about Capoeira, it's roots and even the name of some of the musical instruments they were using. I think I ended up tossing in around $20 in their hat. Amazing friendly people, and an amazing martial art. It's the one I'd love to go, it just way way beyond me. lol
I still have yet to finish this. Though I have made a start. Honest.
Of all the things to make a first post about...
Went to a Dave & Busters in Austin, TX a few years back. A local martial arts school was there and I was watching several of their Capoeira practitioners play Dance Dance Revolution, performing the art in time with the game to actually play the game. Was stunning to watch. Absolutely amazing.
Went to a Dave & Busters in Austin, TX a few years back. A local martial arts school was there and I was watching several of their Capoeira practitioners play Dance Dance Revolution, performing the art in time with the game to actually play the game. Was stunning to watch. Absolutely amazing.
As for martial arts in real life situations... I spent the entire work day today watching clips on Youtube about how MMA fighters kick the living shit out of bullies and thugs and assailants and so on. I watch MMA fights (UFC and os on) somewhat often, so I believe can notice actual MMA moves and movements when they're being utilized in a street brawl, and they were, quite often. Leg kicks both inside and out, jabs, uppercuts and elbows, takedowns, ground and pound in full mount, advancing from full guard to mount, even saw one kimura attempt, several other locks, and so on.
It's true though that MMA is hard to define as "a martial art", at least it's quite contested as (a singular) one, seeing as though it utilizes a lot of things from a lot of different styles. Greco-Roman wrestling, grappling from *jutsu and judo, throws from the aforementioned, guards and mounts and such from *jutsu, punches from boxing, whether regular or thai, as well as karate, taekwondo, and so on, kicks from anything that has kicks... But they're all practiced moves.
And you can see when it's someone throwing it, who practices the art, and not just some street thug.
Point being, it's a lot better to know some martial art if you're in a street brawl, than not to, and best if you're a practicing MMA fighter.
It's true though that MMA is hard to define as "a martial art", at least it's quite contested as (a singular) one, seeing as though it utilizes a lot of things from a lot of different styles. Greco-Roman wrestling, grappling from *jutsu and judo, throws from the aforementioned, guards and mounts and such from *jutsu, punches from boxing, whether regular or thai, as well as karate, taekwondo, and so on, kicks from anything that has kicks... But they're all practiced moves.
And you can see when it's someone throwing it, who practices the art, and not just some street thug.
Point being, it's a lot better to know some martial art if you're in a street brawl, than not to, and best if you're a practicing MMA fighter.
I had a long chat with one of the guys i used to work with today and this discussion came up. He reminded me how many times I ended up grappling with a guy on the floor. I prefered the 'Guillotine' hold in that situation. Compared to many groundworking positions you're fairly well covered from 3rd parties and the guys is probably not going to be concious for very long.
Weapons with a rate of fire of 2 could be interpreted as a second action without penalty.
MA in RL the first thing that sprang to mind was the muggers who tried to take Chuck Norris. I believe the problem is that "violence is never the answer" has been beating into our heads to the point that many people hesitate to use it even to defend themselves or loved ones. Some are just unwilling to hurt another human, or animal themselves.
I'm not proud to say it (well, perhaps i am, since it is better than getting beaten), but i used a similar approach to "Guillotine" hold in several situations. I really don't like to fight and when someone attacks me, i like to incapacitate them so they can't attack me anymore.. With this move, took down a guy three times my size once, so that's something..
You must not live on the same planet as I do. It's really rare to find anyone unwilling to hurt another in a "combat" situation, and it's pretty much impossible to find anyone who would be a practitioner of martial arts who wouldn't use their skills when they're being attacked.
Where exactly do you think this "violence is never the answer" -message is prevailing? I mean, of course all martial artists know that the use of their skills should be the absolute last resort, but that's mainly because they can basically kill their opponent with very little effort if they try. However, it's definitely not a message that's prevailing in society these days.
Not even here in Europe, but least of anywhere in the U.S., where you've got castle doctrines and laws such as Stand Your Ground as well as more guns than people. Violent self-defense is made a virtue, given a holy status. Martial arts is very popular, nowadays especially MMA because of UFC and Strikeforce and such having become completely mainstream.
The discussion you're replying to was that martial arts is overtuned in Cyberpunk 2020, compared to just "brawling", which it should be; it is that in real life as well, a point which the guy tried to dispute saying martial arts isn't used in street fights. Completely and utterly false. It's used more and more. If you have someone who knows martial arts, not being able to talk their opponent down nor escape, they'll use their skills. That's a given.
Just go to Youtube and type "MMA fighter vs" and you'll get an easy couple dozen videos of these kinds of situations. And those are just the ones with higher ratings; you'll find more if you can stomach them.
I was actually responding to the MA in RL comment. MA in cyberpunk 2020 is very powerful compared to brawling and melee. I would not penalize the brawling or melee user by reducing their skill lvl as someone said one of the books suggests. We have addressed this in house rules for the game I play in.
Well, in my observations the "violence is never the answer" message is pushed on us from different directions. And is wrong, as in not prevailing. Violence is always an answer. It is not always the best answer. The earliest instance I can think of is the popular view of the new testament. From "an eye for an eye" to "turn the other cheek" also changing "thou shalt not murder" to "thou shalt not kill."
Recently the walmart employee who got fired for assisting a woman. Kids who get punished for defending themselves in school. People who defend themselves or their homes, then get jailed or sued for doing so.
Trained martial artists have made the decision that they may have to hurt someone when they start training. Same with people who buy firearms for self defense. Weather they can do so when the time comes is another matter. I do not know if I could shoot someone. I want to believe that if it comes down to me or them I will do my best to make sure its them. But since I have not been in that situation yet I do not know.
There are just the pacifists. The Amish who's self sufficiency I admire, just not their stance on violence and technology. Vegetarians, Fruitarians, and just plain sheepel.
Things have changed some in the past few years. It is entirely possible I am completely out of touch. Just that I keep hearing people yelling for more gun control laws ignoring that the crimes are committed by criminals who are ignoring the laws now. Or possibly I am just ranting. What were we talking about now?
Anyhoo.
So. Each martial art has a specific bonus to certain moves, depending on the style (bonus to grapple, strike, kick, and so on.)
Most also have an IP multiplier.
...
How do you run the points invested in the skill?
Let's say I have 5 points in Boxing. Boxing gives +3 to Strike (the Sweet Science, son!) Would you run it as +3 on the to-hit roll, and +5 to damage, or +8 on the to-hit?