[Spoiler] Combat Netrunner: Erebus or MilTech Canto Mk6

[stingray047]

Hi,

hope I chose the right section for my question...or better suggestion.

I like to play a "Combat Netrunner". So I use weapons like assault rifle / smart guns and also close combat - but then also switch to the "Netrunner Ghost"...

Regarding Black Wall Weapons, some suggest that I should choose the Erebus despite I'm Netrunner. That the Canto Mk 6 are not worth to use and as a Netrunner should use better alternatives.

Can you give maybe a suggestion? Is the MilTech Canto Mk 6 worth to pick / to use or better to pick the Erebus?

 

[Netrunner2go]

Hmm strongly depends on your playstyle - the MK6 can be deadly as hell playing it the right way with the right perks and cyberware combined. Many people say it feels underwhelming because they haven’t dig into it deep enough… if you are interesting in its possibilities you might check out this: https://www.reddit.com/r/cyberpunkgame/comments/17128at

For Eberus tho I can’t tell much… just tried it on one char but couldn’t connect to it personally. It’s strong as well killing every enemy below 30% LP but aside of this it just felt like another rifle to me… Gun-Build player may have more insights… but for me personal Canton is clearly superior and way more fun

edit: bad news tho are that the mission „this corrosion“ is bugged in 2.1 and will reactivate an already done mission if you try to get the crafting piece… so mostprobably not the best idea to get it before a patch fixes the issue… although you can but the reactivated mission will stay in your list without a chance to solve it twice : / that’s why I paused my playthrough one week ago at exact this stage… waiting to get the Canto on my current char. : /

 

[Farbros9]

Why people say that Canto is weak? Well because there was a bug, which made quickhacks deal 1000% damage, so they would instantly kill everybody with synapse burnout and think that it suppose to be that way. It also has only 4 slots for quickhacks. I don't know what is the problem with that, Ping, Reboot Optics (for Smart Weapons), System Collapse and Suicide + Blackwall Quickhack feels enough for me.

Some people say that Erebus is really fun. But even with all perks and cyberware, the gun literally deals 0 damage on very hard difficulty. Canto, on the other hand, one-shots and spreads to 6 enemies.

Don't want to sound like a sadistic psycho maniac, but the sounds which the enemies who get that quickhack used on them make is very pleasing. It is not that silent "suicide" quickhack.

Every spread of that quickhack requires RAM, so it eats your RAM and HP very quickly. In order to use it non-stop, you need a special build:

So what you need is:
1) Max RAM: +2, +6 from Frontal Cortex Cyberware. +1 from Skeleton Cyberware.
2) Max HP: +40, +15% from Skeleton Cyberware.
3) Max RAM regen: +0.3 RAM per second from Frontal Cortex (also helps a lot for hacking during car chases) and +3 RAM for each 100 health lost throw Skeleton Cyberware.
4) Max HP regen: +200% from Integumentary System, +7.5% Health for each killed enemy, +110 HP and 6 ticks of 23 with autocast throw the Circulatory System.
5) The length of Overclock will be increased by Axolotl for every kill.

That cyberware enhances the perks:

Because you only use Blackwall since the moment you get it, you can completely ignore all the damage bonuses and use all these free perk points to get all perks for smart weapons and smg's or shotguns. Making them deal full damage against half of the enemies, while the other half is getting killed by Blackwall.

This part gives you 30% health bonus in addition to the blood pump effect and huge bonuses to the health regen, health item recovery rates, which are crucial for blackwall quickhack.

And this part gives you even higher health item recovery rates as well as maxed cyberware capacity, overclock length and cooldowns.

I would usually upload it on the first enemy after ping, which would cut its upload time by 50% in addition to 35% from the Cortex cyberware and 10% from face clothing. After it almost uploads onto the second enemy I would activate the overclock.

With 32 base RAM (up to 38 with boosts), 750 base HP with adrenaline (up to 1000 with boosts), huge regens and 3 health items, which also have huge cooldown bonuses, you can use blackwall indefinitely, enjoying your enemies dying in the pain.

 

[Netrunner2go]

Hmm interesting so it does spread out of overclock if you have enough base RAM? Lesson learned ^^

I just go overclock from the get go tho

 

[Farbros9]

Hmm interesting so it does spread out of overclock if you have enough base RAM? Lesson learned ^^

I just go overclock from the get go tho

You lose way too much time like that. The last spreads are almost instant, but the first 3 are the biggest problem. Having 32 RAM makes it possible to upload Ping + 2 times Blackwall and have 1-2 RAM at the end. But it would not be enough if it spreads to the netrunner.

 

[Nixilos]

I switched to the Canto from the Raven in my 16 int tech sniper build. Even with 5 body overclock is enough to push quite a few kills. I struggle to find places that the spread will end before my overclock duration runs out or everyone is dead.

The Raven WAS better for my build though for sure, but for anyone wanting to play around with the little gremlin in this cyberdeck don't be afraid to try it even without body. All you need is a Biomon, even better with a Blood Pump. Just don't stand there tanking shots while it's uploading and it's all gravy.

 

[Farbros9]

I switched to the Canto from the Raven in my 16 int tech sniper build. Even with 5 body overclock is enough to push quite a few kills. I struggle to find places that the spread will end before my overclock duration runs out or everyone is dead.

The Raven WAS better for my build though for sure, but for anyone wanting to play around with the little gremlin in this cyberdeck don't be afraid to try it even without body. All you need is a Biomon, even better with a Blood Pump. Just don't stand there tanking shots while it's uploading and it's all gravy.

You can tank without any problems too. Can't touch this gives you 100% chance of Mitigation while Dashing. Aerdynamic gives 30% Mitigation Strength while air dashing, Mean Streak gives +40% Stamina for each kill while Dashing and Neofiber gives +11% Mitigation Strength. Nano-Plating gives you 100% chance to block the projectile after Dash.

Combined, it is 100% chance to mitigate 90% of the damage, while the rest 10% would be covered by Armor and part of it converted into RAM during Dashes and 100% chance to block projectiles after the Dash.

You can literally air dash while 20 cops and maxtac are shooting at you for 10 minutes straight on very hard.

 

[Nixilos]

You can tank without any problems too. Can't touch this gives you 100% chance of Mitigation while Dashing. Aerdynamic gives 30% Mitigation Strength while air dashing, Mean Streak gives +40% Stamina for each kill while Dashing and Neofiber gives +11% Mitigation Strength. Nano-Plating gives you 100% chance to block the projectile after Dash.

Combined, it is 100% chance to mitigate 90% of the damage, while the rest 10% would be covered by Armor and part of it converted into RAM during Dashes and 100% chance to block projectiles after the Dash.

You can literally air dash while 20 cops and maxtac are shooting at you for 10 minutes straight on very hard.

My point is meant to highlight that you don't need any specialization for it to work, I also consider dashing around to not be standing there tanking shots. Good on you for showing others how to build survivability without body though.

I'll only add that Nano-Plating has a max shots blocked within what.. 5 seconds? I didn't find it very impactful after having already stacked mitigation strength.

 

[Farbros9]

My point is meant to highlight that you don't need any specialization for it to work, I also consider dashing around to not be standing there tanking shots. Good on you for showing others how to build survivability without body though.

I'll only add that Nano-Plating has a max shots blocked within what.. 5 seconds? I didn't find it very impactful after having already stacked mitigation strength.

This mitigation will stop working between the dashes, so a precise maxtac can randomly finish you in that exact moment. What would you suggest instead? Chittin and Camo look like must have to me, what would be 3rd pick then?

edit. I actually looked at it again and yeah, you are right:
Cogico Lattice can boost your armor almost to the max, when RAM is below 12, which would always be the case with Blackwall and costs even less capacity.
Countershell is very good and would be constantly active, because your health is dropping crazy fast with blackwall.
Defenzikov can also work.

 

[stingray047]

Hello,

thank you for your answers/suggestions. I'm still configure my Netrunner with Quickhacks / Cyberware to find best smooth gameplay for me.

The concern regarding the Canto MK 6 is because of the high Cyberware Cost, low RAM / Slots and Upload time of the Blackwall Hack.

 

[Netrunner2go]

The concern regarding the Canto MK 6 is because of the high Cyberware Cost, low RAM / Slots and Upload time of the Blackwall Hack.

RAM can be increased by other cyberware (prime use for the blackwall skill is HP by overclock anyways), slots become less important since the blackwall hack is insta kill on all enemies except bosses and upload time can be decreased by using control hacks just before it for the first 1-2 hardcasts and decreases automatically with every spread on its own.

if you are getting used to the blackwall gate hack you won’t use much other QHs at all ^^

edit: farbros suggestions above are more or less for a pure canto build - max efficiency so to speak but you don’t need to use this build to get it working - the deck & BQH can be used on any Netrunner build and is still strong because of its insta-kill-spread ability… so there is no reason to not mix it into your own one ^^

 

[stingray047]

RAM can be increased by other cyberware (prime use for the blackwall skill is HP by overclock anyways), slots become less important since the blackwall hack is insta kill on all enemies except bosses and upload time can be decreased by using control hacks just before it for the first 1-2 hardcasts and decreases automatically with every spread on its own.

if you are getting used to the blackwall gate hack you won’t use much other QHs at all ^^

edit: farbros suggestions above are more or less for a pure canto build - max efficiency so to speak but you don’t need to use this build to get it working - the deck & BQH can be used on any Netrunner build and is still strong because of its insta-kill-spread ability… so there is no reason to not mix it into your own one ^^

I had a look into farbros build and made some notes for me. I'm not so far in Body Tree and run a midgame-netrunner build .

But of course, your right, the perks / cyberware will support additional RAM / Upload times. I installed/picked some relevant cyberware/hacks/etc....already

 

[TheLocalHentai]

Erebus is basically Body/Shotgun Obliteration lite, a shotgun smg that has a hard threshold to proc instant kill. Despite the description and the bulky look, it's actually a pretty well mannered smg with decent reload speed, accuracy, good damage, and handling. If you're building for reflex on top of QHs, it wouldn't take much to adapt to it and can even use it as a finisher weapon once enemies are closer to death. While the instant kill at 30% is nice, the cyberware malfunction chance at any percentage is a better perk but I may just be RNG lucky since it's stated to have a very small percentage chance to proc and it procs like crazy for me. Would probably be better in the easier difficulties.

As for the Canto, Blackwall is a good hack but the reliance on OC, the five person kill limit, and limited slots really hurts its useability. At that point in the game, the deck you're likely be using would already be a large part of your play style, so moving over to the Canto might not be the best fit. It's good but not good enough to replace a whole suite of QHs on a preferred deck good, which is a shame.

Overall, for a pure Netrunner build the Canto could easily be a questionable change in play style, whereas a combat netrunner (+reflex) could easily take advantage of the Erebus, even if it's just to tag enemies to finish them off.

 

[Netrunner2go]

It's good but not good enough to replace a whole suite of QHs on a preferred deck good, which is a shame.

I wouldn’t generalize this. In efficiency you don’t need any other battle quickhack anymore so no need for a „whole suite“ of quickhacks at all - 4 slots next to the Gate QH is more than enough for any scenario ^^
Also the 5 target limit argument is pointless just cast another hardcast to keep spreads going.

 

[Nixilos]

The only thing the Canto is actually better at than anything else you could be doing is clearing buildings without having to enter, it's what contagion used to be good at in an old version of the game. Even in my 16 int overclock only build just spamming system collapse was better, especially because it discounts itself if the trace is active when you use it.

It depends on what you like doing, if you actually build for this deck you don't need it anymore, even if you do there are simply better options unless you rely on it for everything. Personally I think builds are the most fun when everything they do is minimally viable, I don't invest in anything more than I need to for it to be functional, and for the Canto that only required overclock for me. It was still worse than the Raven Microcyber deck in my build but it was thematic and fun for different reasons. I still had to abstain from using it if I wanted to interact with the game beyond point and click.

Your build and how you use it is the last difficulty adjustment after very hard, make it how you like, you are only in competition with yourself.