Foglet, a creature of mist

[Bellator Pius Gratus]

Sure, @Engagerade and @RivenII , I can do that. ^_^

First and foremost I have this edition:

In spite of the misspellings, grammar mistakes and sometimes, the use of wrong words, Sapkowski's writing is so good that the voice of the translator couldn't bring this wonderful book down.

But of course, the latest versions probably have these mistakes corrected. Let's see if the fogler survived though. Not that I consider it a mistake. Fogler is better than foglet. ^_^

On page 116, in this edition, I quote from The Voice of Reason 4(that is when Geralt is talking to Iola about being a witcher):

"Some creature which lived to kill, out of hunger, for pleasure, or invoked by some sick will. A manticore, wyvern, fogler, aeschna, ilyocoris, chimera, leshy, vampire, ghoul, graveir, were-wolf, giant scorpion, striga, black annis, kikimora, vypper...so many I've killed."

The third creature he mentions is the observation I made. Fogler, not foglet. ^_^

@Marcin Momot
You listening devs? :


@Aes Sídhe
Care to chime in, friend?

 

[Riven-Twain]

I know this was all mentioned before I arrived in the Forum, and it's now quite hopelessly after-the-fact, but I'll repeat it again, just to refresh the point.

In German it's 'Nebling', a diminutive form of the word for 'fog'. Without knowing the etymology of the Polish word, I can't say much as to the ultimate function of the name in the original, but I will remark that 'foglet' and 'fogler' are both odd choices in English.The '-let', while technically English, by our frequent use of French forms, doesn't match with the etymology of the word 'fog', which is most likely Scandinavian; however, it is basically an accurate, if clumsy, equivalent. However, the '-ler' is not a proper English diminutive suffix at all: it should be '-er', but this suffix only denotes noun-agency in relation to a verb, but denotes nothing especially diminutive. By this, it should be 'fogger': a being that 'fogs', or creates fog. For a more native (Germanic) diminutive from, we must turn to '-ling', like 'gosling' from 'goose', or 'fledgling' from 'fledge'. 'Fogling', or even 'marshling', or 'mistling', would be closer, if we were seeking an English parallel to the German translation. A 'fogling' would be a 'small being of the fog'. If I knew the Polish name -- which I expect has come causative agency in the appearance of the fog in it -- and the origins of its root-word, I could comment further, but, since I am not personally familiar with the language, and its constructions, I remain uncertain.

I favour 'fogling', 'mistling' or 'marshling'.

 

[Engagerade]

Spoiler

Sure, @Engagerade and @RivenII , I can do that. ^_^

First and foremost I have this edition:

In spite of the misspellings, grammar mistakes and sometimes, the use of wrong words, Sapkowski's writing is so good that the voice of the translator couldn't bring this wonderful book down.

But of course, the latest versions probably have these mistakes corrected. Let's see if the fogler survived though. Not that I consider it a mistake. Fogler is better than foglet. ^_^

On page 116, in this edition, I quote from The Voice of Reason 4(that is when Geralt is talking to Iola about being a witcher):

"Some creature which lived to kill, out of hunger, for pleasure, or invoked by some sick will. A manticore, wyvern, fogler, aeschna, ilyocoris, chimera, leshy, vampire, ghoul, graveir, were-wolf, giant scorpion, striga, black annis, kikimora, vypper...so many I've killed."

The third creature he mentions is the observation I made. Fogler, not foglet. ^_^

Thank you! It was on page 151 in my copy -.-
I havent actually read either books in swedish, mainly because the others arent translated and it's would be horrible to transition to english after 2 books.
Anyways the swedish translation is actually fucking good :yes i did not expect that
It's called Dimvätte, plural Dimvättar which in english literally translates fog wight , now incorporate old norse and you have Dimvættr............I like it :animier:

Although i have no idea what it sounds like to any non north germanic speakers :sweat:

And as i thought a lot of the translations don't sound very good, and i think it's an inherent problem with our language, it just does not translate well.

Just to be clear the Swedish word Vätte might translate into wight in english but they are do not carry the same connotation, describing goblins and gnomes as vättar would also work.
try to google Vättar and then Wights and look what images will come up and you will understand ^^

 

[Riven-Twain]

Anyways the swedish translation is actually fucking good :yes i did not expect that
It's called Dimvätte, plural Dimvättar which in english literally translates fog wight , now incorporate old norse and you have Dimvættr............I like it :animier:

Although i have no idea what it sounds like to any non north germanic speakers :sweat:

And as i thought a lot of the translations don't sound very good, and i think it's an inherent problem with our language, it just does not translate well.

Dimvätte is of considerable interest to me, as an amateur etymologist, as I can easily replicate it into semi-modern English: 'dimwight', 'living thing of the dimness (fog)'. Unfortunately, this resembles 'dimwit' a bit too much, so it does not inspire much awe in our language. However, the fact that the Swedish attaches an actual life-being to the word for the mist is particularly insightful into the translation of the creature into that language. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Engagerade]

Dimvätte is of considerable interest to me, as an amateur etymologist, as I can easily replicate it into semi-modern English: 'dimwight', 'living thing of the dimness (fog)'. Unfortunately, this resembles 'dimwit' a bit too much, so it does not inspire much awe in our language. However, the fact that the Swedish attaches an actual life-being to the word for the mist is particularly insightful into the translation of the creature into that language. Thanks for sharing!

Your welcome!
We and i suppose our sister languages aswell do tend to sort of "merge" words together in a way english doesnt
Now that i think about i have a bit of difficulty explaining it :/

For example
Fast food in swedish is snabbmat, now snabb=fast and mat=food but if you were to write it "snabb mat" it would literally mean a fast bit of food.
Black bear becomes Svartbjörn but if written svart björn it just means a bear that is black.

Separating words completely messes up the meaning.

It's called Särskrivningar when you fuck it up in Swedish and it physically hurts to see them, it's more common now because of the English influence on our language.

Some more examples with pictures if youre interested.

Spoiler

-Björnbär means blackberry in english, but if you write Björn bär it means bear carries

Half brother=halvbror but written as halv bror it literally means a half brother.

Reindeer calf is Renkalv, now Ren also means clean so Ren kalf becomes clean calf

Skärbräda means cuttingboard but Skär bräda means pink board -.-

Horse carriage is Hästskjuts but written Häst skjuts it means horse is getting shot

and a final one
Sex leksaker means six toys but Sexleksaker means Sex toys

Incase if anyone is wondering "Bilder i kampen mot särskrivningar" means pictures in the fight against separating words.

As you can see writing it wrong completely fucks the meaning up :rofl:

 

[Riven-Twain]

Your welcome!
We and i suppose our sister languages aswell do tend to sort of "merge" words together in a way english doesnt
Now that i think about i have a bit of difficulty explaining it :/

For example
Fast food in swedish is snabbmat, now snabb=fast and mat=food but if you were to write it "snabb mat" it would literally mean a fast bit of food.
Black bear becomes Svartbjörn but if written svart björn it just means a bear that is black.

Separating words completely messes up the meaning.

It's called Särskrivningar when you fuck it up in Swedish and it physically hurts to see them, it's more common now because of the English influence on our language.

Some more examples with pictures if youre interested.
As you can see writing it wrong completely fucks the meaning up :rofl:

Thanks again. Modern English -- especially American -- has some problems with its own grammar. It does tend to separate words which should be single concepts, but instead creates unusual adjectives and confusion. In many Germanic languages this is not a problem, but in its historical development, English departed from its cousins in this regard. Old English, that is, Anglo-Saxon, contained quite a few of these compound words, and resembled Old Norse, and even Modern German a great deal more than it does now. Each language has a long, and fascinating history!

 

[Bellator Pius Gratus]

I know this was all mentioned before I arrived in the Forum, and it's now quite hopelessly after-the-fact, but I'll repeat it again, just to refresh the point.

Aye, at least fogling has been mentioned before, I know that. I just meant that fogler is better than foglet. ^_^

I favour 'fogling', 'mistling' or 'marshling'.

Mistling or marshling are new though. Good names! Check my previous post(#90) if you're interested.

Regarding Norse, and English-Scandinavian I presented the following link in a previous post: http://www.babbel.com/magazine/139-norse-words
Off the top(p) of my hjälm, I'm sure you can guess what kind of weapons svärd, yxa and klubba are, and see the similarity to the English words. :happy:

@Engagerade
You went beyond the call of duty to educate and entertain. For that you earn REDpoints! ^_^
Oh, en glad packad kyckling is a very happy chicken.

EDIT: Vätte to me has always been goblin. But Dimvätte was a good sense for sense translation I guess.

 

[Riven-Twain]

Mistling or marshling are new though. Good names! Check my previous post(#90) if you're interested.

Regarding Norse, and English-Scandinavian I presented the following link in a previous post: http://www.babbel.com/magazine/139-norse-words
Off the top(p) of my hjälm, I'm sure you can guess what kind of weapons svärd, yxa and klubba are, and see the similarity to the English words. :happy:

Thanks! I'm glad you liked the new names. I do just a little bit of proper Old Norse grammar, but I have a better background in Anglo-Saxon, and German. I'm familiar with quite a lot of Norse etymology within the English language, though.

 

[Bellator Pius Gratus]

I am now fifteen pages into Time of Contempt(Disdain so much better name imo). I quote: "One hundred and fifty for yesterday's manticore. Fifty for the fogler he had been commissioned to kill by the headman of a village near Carreras."

Again, fogler. Fogler. Twice in three books I've seen that spelling. Now, I understand the devs can do as they like with names, spelling and what not. I honestly think CDPR's Time of Disdain sounds far better than Time of Contempt. But again, fogler is mentioned, not foglet.

 

[general_hades]

and 404 when clicking link....what happened?!

 

[Aes Sídhe]

Well, I take an immediate liking to Dimvätte too, go figure. Even the Fog-Wight mentioned, maybe Fogwit for short.

Mistling & Marshling are great too, and if the -let is somehow justified ingame it could yet be all well and good, barring that I think all we can really say is that when next advertising for a "Monster Name Generating Person", CDPR should see if RivenII's got a few spare minutes.

 

[Engagerade]

Well, I take an immediate liking to Dimvätte too, go figure. Even the Fog-Wight mentioned, maybe Fogwit for short.

Mistling & Marshling are great too, and if the -let is somehow justified ingame it could yet be all well and good, barring that I think all we can really say is that when next advertising for a "Monster Name Generating Person", CDPR should see if RivenII's got a few spare minutes.

Yeah, it caught me off guard though because when i was looking it up, well the other monster translations were just..................:sick:

Im really fond of especially Marshling, it sounds just perfect :yes

 

[Riven-Twain]

Mistling & Marshling are great too, and if the -let is somehow justified ingame it could yet be all well and good, barring that I think all we can really say is that when next advertising for a "Monster Name Generating Person", CDPR should see if RivenII's got a few spare minutes.

Im really fond of especially Marshling, it sounds just perfect :yes

Thank you both! That's very kind. I only wish I could help with translations and names -- that would be a fun project!

The name Marshling, while not explicitly linked to fog, describes the creature's habitat very well, and by that environmental association of the damp wetlands and mist, it describes the monster's origins. (Fog is possibly of Scandinavian root, and likely related to the Norwegian word 'fogg' -- a sort of grass, specific to wetlands.)
There is also a possible subtle double-meaning to Marshling, as it could be a form of either Marchling or Markling, which both pertain to a border or boundary. This could be applied to the creature's otherworldliness, as it inhabits the margins of the known world, within the perilous mists.

 

[Ljesnjanin]

I think I saw maglovid (foglet) in gamestar.de Twitch stream...Not 100% sure, though...

 

[Aes Sídhe]

There is also a possible subtle double-meaning to Marshling, as it could be a form of either Marchling or Markling, which both pertain to a border or boundary. This could be applied to the creature's otherworldliness, as it inhabits the margins of the known world, within the perilous mists.

Love stuff like that myself... thats exactly the kind of detail that when presented with subtlety gives fantasy worlds depth.

The mental illusion created by discovering such connections is usually enough to fool my wee noggin' anyway

Anyone asked if Fogler is trademarked or something? Does seem odd that Bellators edition uses that and the REDs went their own way,,, which is their wont of course and sure isn't it what makes them so adorable, and better than someone just typo'd the assets name entry wrong in the first place, destroyed the evidence, and insists it was always that way, its the books that are wrong.

 

[Riven-Twain]

Love stuff like that myself... thats exactly the kind of detail that when presented with subtlety gives fantasy worlds depth.

The mental illusion created by discovering such connections is usually enough to fool my wee noggin' anyway

It is rather pleasing, isn't it? I love etymology: one of my few true passions.

Anyone asked if Fogler is trademarked or something? Does seem odd that Bellators edition uses that and the REDs went their own way,,, which is their wont of course and sure isn't it what makes them so adorable, and better than someone just typo'd the assets name entry wrong in the first place, destroyed the evidence, and insists it was always that way, its the books that are wrong.

Slipped into a fog, and was never heard from again. . . .

 

[Bellator Pius Gratus]

Love stuff like that myself... thats exactly the kind of detail that when presented with subtlety gives fantasy worlds depth.

The mental illusion created by discovering such connections is usually enough to fool my wee noggin' anyway

Anyone asked if Fogler is trademarked or something? Does seem odd that Bellators edition uses that and the REDs went their own way,,, which is their wont of course and sure isn't it what makes them so adorable, and better than someone just typo'd the assets name entry wrong in the first place, destroyed the evidence, and insists it was always that way, its the books that are wrong.

And that's two different editions and translators at that. Both Danusia Stok and David French use the term 'fogler.'

But then again, both also say 'Time of Contempt' whereas CDPR went with the much better 'Time of Disdain.'

Just watch Witcher 1 intro, and hear the narrator say: "The Time of Sword and Axe. The Time of Disdain."

To me 'Disdain' has much more impact than 'Contempt.' I have contempt for the use of 'Contempt.'

Anyway, I don't know why some translations are left alone(when there are better translations out there) and others changed(to something worse).

 

[Aes Sídhe]

Just googled Fogler and its a surname - chuckles - but that appears to be as far as its existence stretches. Perhaps Sap has plans for the literary ones that would've cost an extra generation of gpu to implement ingame, and so god banished Foglers from the game.

I've always preferred Disdain myself, it simply has more character, impact indeed, "Contempt" is a dried up aul' hag of a word in comparison.

 

[Riven-Twain]

But then again, both also say 'Time of Contempt' whereas CDPR went with the much better 'Time of Disdain.'

Just watch Witcher 1 intro, and hear the narrator say: "The Time of Sword and Axe. The Time of Disdain."

To me 'Disdain' has much more impact than 'Contempt.' I have contempt for the use of 'Contempt.'

Here we have a couple more interesting words, etymologically: Disdain, ultimately from Latin dedignari 'reject as unworthy', or 'to refuse dignity', 'reject with scorn'. And then, Contempt, however, from contemn, Latin, con + temnere, ' to despise (look down upon) intensively'. Disdain appears to have a more forceful connotation, both in modern usage, and at its roots. While similar, contempt seems milder. When pronouncing disdain, you can hiss through your teeth, and snarl your lips, but not with contempt -- that just causes wrinkling of the nose, and slight spitting, when pronounced.

 

[Aes Sídhe]

Disdain appears to have a stronger connotation, both in modern usage, and at its roots. While similar, contempt seems milder.

Aye, I even checked the dictionary to try and support why it feels like Disdain is much more personal. I found no backup, so fall back to the "Contempt has been overused" redoubt.