Baffled by 2.0 changes - Pushed into "classes"

[Grifta]

I love the high-level concept at a theoretical level, but the implementation is crazy. It seems like all of the changes in 2.0 just push you into maybe 3-4 builds and nothing else. And, some things are now just absolute requirements instead of options.

• Technical Ability handles all Armour and Cyberware. Since Cyberware also massively effects what bonuses and abilities you have (double jump, invis, etc), you basically have to take 15-20 points in Technical.
• Linked Perks force you into what are basically classes now instead of the previous freedom to build your own character.
• Double jump vs charge jump now has nothing to do with preference because each has different affinity bonuses and stat modifiers. This is just one example, but every piece of cyberware is only good if you are stat'd out to a specific play-style.
• As above; Want to pick the type of Gorilla Arms you want, well hold on, the damage of each type scales with different stats and gives different bonuses. Now you're doing +-10% damage, and have bonuses to explosives for some unknown reason.
• Non-lethal? Nope, none of the quickhacks tell you if they're lethal or not anymore, and non-lethal optics mod doesn't exist. Also, Pax mods are impossible to craft if you don't randomly find the common crafting spec before level ? 5-10 ?

Everything just looks like they killed a great, customizable system and turned it into "Pick your favourite Edge Runners character"

• Fun aside: They also added a microtransaction sniper rifle for $9.98 (price for the middleman Twitch for 2 subs)

 

[Crimsomrider]

Everything just looks like they killed a great, customizable system and turned it into "Pick your favourite Edge Runners character"

Pretty much, yup. Personally I am having a ton of fun with the new stuff added, but there's no denying that the freedom of build variety is entirely gone and replaced with pre-built playstyles which do not offer any meaningful in-depth variation as it previously was available.

It's mostly now "Pick your pre-selected archetype" type of talent tree.

Lucy - Intelligence
David - Technical
Rebecca - Strength

Also do not like the lack of freedom when it to comes getting the stats I'd want. Like why am I getting explosive damage for Netrunner cyberware when I want to play a stealth Netrunner. I want quickhack damage/RAM recovery/reduced visibility... not explosion/headshot/stealth damage. So I am forced to go RAM recovery while the other two stats are completely useless for my build, such as grenade cooldown. I'm a STEALTH NETRUNNER, I DO NOT USE GRENADES SILLY GAME

But hopefully this is something they'll slightly rework and improve to make it a more interesting system that is less prebuilt. There's far too many pre-selected stuff going on and less freedom in letting the player choose what they want. Cyberware should at least be customizable so we can choose which stats go on.

Or at least a proper way to reroll them to get what we want and create the builds we want. Because what if I want to play an explosive Netrunner? Or a Smart Gun Netrunner? Or a pure knife Netrunner? Can't do that if the stats do not offer any freedom of choice.

 

[Takamorisan]

I disagree in parts with you OP, its not the perk tree responsible for the frustration. Its the itemization.

While the perk tree decided to evolve into an apex predator, the items in this game barely gave a step forward. Still the same tiered items doing the most uninteresting stuff possible.

The cyberware being attached to bonus stat is weird because in our min max monkey brain we will seek optimal performance and thats one of your complaints in coming from, I'm using a cyberware that reduces recoil due to LMG usage but that cyberware is attuned to Cool stat that I have 3 only but I still use it because logically having less recoil with an autogun totally makes sense.

Cyberware shouldn't have any stat bonuses and just do what they are meant to functionally and lets brands and manufacturers dictate the performance quality of that object.

Also lack of freedom to create builds also means the lack of tools. Ok now we scale armor with cyberware, but why the hell the game didn't implement actual armor so people that don't lean into tech can scale it in another way? Like body armor, pads and so on? The setting let you turn your character into a god damn space marine if you have the eddies.
If is for the sake of realism, just let the character put in the god damn car trunk to not attract heat from the police and when it has a gig to do, you park the car suit and up and mow down the place.

For people that wanna play the stealth runner agent, why no stun grenades? Dart guns with sleep agent or toxins?

Yeah I will agree why make grenades a cooldown? You balance it with power/cost/weight/function for those who wanna use it

Whoever is responsible for itemization in CDK just makes me feel pure pain, the weakest part in the company.

EDIT: ESL here so apologies in advance if I sounded confusing in my post.

 

[cammoking123]

It just sounds like you're too focused on min/maxing. The game is not that hard. You can set every attribute to 9 and still clear the game without much trouble. Cyberpunk is really not one of those games where you need to perfectly optimize a character.

 

[Crimsomrider]

It is true that the game can be beat without any trouble, but beating the game is not really the point. It's about shaping builds ourselves and optimizing them to see how far a build can be pushed and in what directions.

It's what makes RPGs fun, to have an influence on our character, how they play and what they can achieve with their build.

Personally I have no issue being a Netrunning God even now with the current talent tree and itemization, but I definitely do not feel like this is my build. I simply took pre-existing paths in the talent tree and for cyberware I got shoehorned into taking any set of stats that has RAM Recovery, while other two stats that accompany it are complete junk useless to my build.

The end result is this;

As can be clearly seen an entire gang war wiped in seconds with just one quickhack, but the point is this ain't my build despite how powerful and effortless it is. To me this isn't something I built nor got to optimize, I simply followed what the game now calls a playstyle tree and in the cyberware stat distribution I chose whatever it pre-selected for me for stat distribution.

Half my stats groups look like this;

• Explosion damage (I do not use explosions as a Netrunner)
• RAM Recovery
• Weapon Handling (I do not use weapons as a Netrunner)

When I actually want them to look like this;

• Quickhack damage
• Ram Recovery
• Visibility Reduction

 

[Bloodartist]

Technical Ability handles all Armour and Cyberware. Since Cyberware also massively effects what bonuses and abilities you have (double jump, invis, etc), you basically have to take 15-20 points in Technical.

To be honest, technical was also absolute necessity if you wanted to craft things before 2.0. You needed 16 tech to have an actual gun wall iirc. I guess the devs REALLY love technical.

I don't think that cybernetics should have any skill tree associated to it. The double down effect causes what you describe. An imbalance so great that anything else feels puny in comparison.

I think it is all fine and just that if you want truly superhuman abilities and hulk out like David Martinez in edgerunners you need to have heavy cybernetics - but a SKILL tree that affects it? That seems.. wrong. What exactly is it that you are more skilled in using? What is the explanation?

Ultimately, if I can have an overpowered solo in some shape and form, Im fine with it. But balance between the builds does sound worrisome

ps. I don't believe people have exhausted all there is to know about the builds yet, so I think there are some kneejerk complaints flying around. But CDPR has never been really good at balancing things..

pps. Ultimately this is a singleplayer game, and balance doesn't really matter in singleplayer games.

Post automatically merged: Sep 25, 2023

Cyberware shouldn't have any stat bonuses and just do what they are meant to functionally and lets brands and manufacturers dictate the performance quality of that object.

I am 100% in disagreement. With level scaling, what makes you stronger than the enemy IS the skill tree and cybernetics. That's where the difference will lie.

 

[Mz_Winter]

It just sounds like you're too focused on min/maxing. The game is not that hard. You can set every attribute to 9 and still clear the game without much trouble. Cyberpunk is really not one of those games where you need to perfectly optimize a character.

Except that there are missions that flat out require certain attribute values to progress the mission at all. In 2.0, those attribute requirements increase with player level. You're max level before you started clearing out Westbrook and haven't maxed Body and Tech? Guess what, you aren't finishing Westbrook. And no, that isn't hard to do with the increased XP. I was level 25 by the time I was allowed to leave Watson.

 

[Sashiohiha]

If you think about it, a lot of the 2.0 changes is basically a full departure from Cyberpunk 2077 RPG to Cyberpunk: Edgerunners

Anime was awesome but I think they targeted the newcomers that the anime gained and turned it into a fast-paced action game. I feel they wanted to match the progression of David, few gigs, leveled up fast and Chromed out. Not to mention in today's world, everyone has a shorter attention span

 

[Spooke714]

I was waiting until I get deeper into the game to give a review but I agree. The new skill tree system is really bad. The old one was way better, way more DnD (customizable). The results for both of the are the same, you end up OP af. But pre-2.0 character sheet was more fun. I pretty much hate the cycberware system now. This part of the update is really foolish and unnecessary.

 

[VanillaBaron]

Except that there are missions that flat out require certain attribute values to progress the mission at all.

I am 100% against attribute checks being level scaled, I hope it's a bug that they will fix (and not an intentional change.) But, are there actual missions that cannot be done, based on attribute checks? I know missions sometimes have an easier path, or an alternate path, that requires an attribute check to access, but I don't remember a quest which cannot be completed without an attribute check. If you know of one can you let us know, because I intend to report scaling of attribute checks as a bug, and an impossible mission would be a really great thing to include in the report.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

But, are there actual missions that cannot be done, based on attribute checks?

Brendan - I Can See Clearly Now, with BODY 9, I'm not sure I will be able to start the quest (original 4 BODY was required)

 

[VanillaBaron]

Ah of course, I forgot about the dumpster in front of the Vending Machine. Thank you!