Balance changes - October 2023

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Today the first Balance Council changes were rolled out. What do you think? I found some surprises. The most shoking one for me was that reavers got one power point less and oh boy, it helped!. I played against them and I enjoyed (and won) the match.

There were much more changes than I expected. And the changes were across many factions
 

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Brippe

Forum regular
Today the first Balance Council changes were rolled out. What do you think? I found some surprises. The most shoking one for me was that reavers got one power point less and oh boy, it helped!. I played against them and I enjoyed (and won) the match.

There were much more changes than I expected. And the changes were across many factions
Where are the changes?
 
In mobile, right after opening the game, before opening the main menu, there is a section with news. There you click in Balance Council results (or similar name). I am attaching the screenshots
 

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Best patch in two years (except Compass), it must have been done two years ago.

So hyped about buffing dead cards in next voting period.
 
Yeah, I'm mostly happy with it. There were definitely some weird things, like Scouts, Siege, Compass, Viy, Vigo and Braathens getting buffed, but all of the nerfs were pretty much on point, and the weird things will obviously happen when the voting is open to everyone like this. I know some people are losing their minds over it, suddenly pining for some mythical "good ole days" of devs balancing, as if we haven't seen some TERRIBLE changes from the devs before, but this patch makes up for its misses with volume alone, imo.
 
Many of these were simply not changes with (primarily) balancing in mind. The game will lose even more users that way, but I can't say I'm surprised at all. The only interesting thing left in Gwent will be to find out how long the ship can hold out after crashing into the iceberg that is Gwentfinity and ommunity "balancing".
 
Balance Council = Bad Idea. Trevorzan of course you beat the Reavers deck. Reaver Hunters is broken. The order no longer works because you can't spawn a copy of a card with a power less than one. There are other broken cards as well. Handing the reigns from developers to non-developers and the results are: cards don't work, entire genres of decks were made non-viable, and every month 60 cards will be changed just for the sake of change rather than because they don't work as intended or properly. I think the council changes were a disaster. A few more months of this and the game will be history.
 
Balance Council = Bad Idea. Trevorzan of course you beat the Reavers deck. Reaver Hunters is broken. The order no longer works because you can't spawn a copy of a card with a power less than one. There are other broken cards as well. Handing the reigns from developers to non-developers and the results are: cards don't work, entire genres of decks were made non-viable, and every month 60 cards will be changed just for the sake of change rather than because they don't work as intended or properly. I think the council changes were a disaster. A few more months of this and the game will be history.
If anything, 60 cards seems a little too much lol. had thought only 12 cards would be changed.

Let's remembrer many months ago devs said the party was almost over for them. They would allow us to stay a bit longer to hang around, but they would leave the place. So maybe under normal circumstances yes, it would be a bad idea, but, it is not normal anymore. It will be interesting what the community comes up with. I did not vote, as I didn't fulfilled the requirement of 25 wins.
 
Balance Council = Bad Idea. Trevorzan of course you beat the Reavers deck. Reaver Hunters is broken. The order no longer works because you can't spawn a copy of a card with a power less than one. There are other broken cards as well. Handing the reigns from developers to non-developers and the results are: cards don't work, entire genres of decks were made non-viable, and every month 60 cards will be changed just for the sake of change rather than because they don't work as intended or properly. I think the council changes were a disaster. A few more months of this and the game will be history.
The issue isn't the nerf, the issue is the card shouldn't exist. The ability is overtuned with how many copies can be played in that faction. That's the problem that the devs left the community with, there are cards that just have broken mechanics and shouldn't be in the game. NR certainly isn't the only culprit. Cards like Viy shouldn't exist either and I'm confused why it even got a buff. The Compass and Golden Nekkar etc...shouldn't exist. If this is the outcome then that may not be a bad thing, nerf these cards out of existence and let's see what happens.
 
On the whole, I think the outcome should not have been unexpected -- and incoherent mix changes that illustrate (and generally address) surface issues without deeper thought into long term game health.

NERFS
With two (maybe 3) exceptions, I support every nerf made. They fell on deserving cards and they will benefit Gwent. But to be fair, it is hard to miss with nerfs as so many cards deserve one. And on the whole, nerfs focused upon cards that generate too much value rather than the over-tuned cards that somewhat control them (e.g. Heatwave) and this is absolutely the essential order to fix the problems Gwent has. The exceptions (as I see it) starting with the worst:
  • Bare Knuckle Brawler. This card has existed for a long time with absolutely no issues -- he only became an issue because of a broken Vice mechanic. And his existence at 4 provisions is pretty critical for a healthy SY faction. Other SY control is very limited outside of bounty archetypes (I don't want to see more of the likes of Freakshow) and balancing spenders with coins is a major challenge of SY and very few cards are flexible spenders able to productively spend either a few or multiple coins in a round. This change is also a major nerf to Eventide Plunder as it lost one of its three viable targets.
  • Reaver Hunters. I would be the first to say this card needed fixing, and it absolutely deserves a nerf. But the change absolutely kills the card without justification. And the real problem was never with Hunters -- the problem is that 20 copies of hunters in a game becomes absolutely oppressive. The right solution was to nerf provisions of both Hunters AND the OP trash that allows repeated copying of cards that are OK in moderation. This change kills a mechanic that is intrinsically interesting (an engine that requires one copy of itself to function where both the engine and copy are vulnerable). Now we both lose an interesting card and we still have balance problems due to excessive copies of cards that are only balanced by limited numbers.
  • Admiral Rompally. This nerf may be OK, but I never felt Rompally was a real issue (nerfing the likes of Thirsty Dames seems sufficient) and I always found Rompally very expensive for the value he directly contributes. Have I missed something?
BUFFS
Unfortunately, while I appreciate the nerfs, I cannot say the same about the buffs. About half of them went to cards that should be nerfed instead, and several promote absolutely horrible play. Given the huge number of cards that legitimately find no place for play (and desperately need buffs), I think players should have done much better. I don't think I can rank the awful buffs, but let me comment on them by category

Horrible Buffs
  • Amphibious Assault. All echo cards are inherently destabilizing, and Amphibious Assault is amongst the worst. Excessive tutoring is a bane to creative and insightful play and boosting engines beyond reasonable removal distorts basic principles of sound deck design. Not to mention that what are already auto-include cards should almost never need a buff.
  • Golden Compass. Compass was moved outside Golden Nekker range with good reason. Although I expect it will be nerfed back next patch, it is a waste of changes that could have been used to good effect elsewhere. And now we have to live with this monstrosity until the next patch (which can't come soon enough).
  • Viy. Viy has legitimately been powercrept. But does anyone ever enjoy playing against a viable VIy deck? If there is one archetype we don't need, it is Viy. Moreover, this is not a measly one point -- it is one point per Viy use -- usually 6 or 7 total.
  • Reaver Scout. I understand an attempt to offset the Reaver Hunter nerf, but players got this one backward. Scout was previously a problem (it's not just Hunters that become problems when excessively copied!); now it is worse.
Bad Buffs
  • Saskia: Commander. Having some possibility of removal is important to limit powerful engines. Even though Saskia is awkward and ST is weak as a faction, this is not the way to fix either issue.
  • Gezras. Admittedly Gezras is generally removed before he generates excessive value. But I strongly oppose ANY card that generates massive engine value as this leads to a distorted need for control which leads to uninteractive play. Remove or lose cards are not tolerable and should never be buffed.
  • Braathens. Braathens is already one of two premier cards in assimilate decks. If assimilate really needs a buff (I don't think it does) that buff should be given to the more marginal cards (like Cup Bearer or Glynnis.
  • Vigo. Vigo is another card that is widely used (he needs no buff to see extensive play). And he is a card that contributes to the excessive copying that is a blight on the game.
  • Nithral. I don't think we need damage engines moved out or standard removal range.
  • Black Rayla. As with Nithral, we don't need damage engines moved outside standard removal range.
  • Siege. There is no justification for Siege being cheaper than ANY other scenario. And ALL scenarios already generate too much value. Every one of them needs a nerf. Boosts are inexcusable.
Disliked Buffs (may reflect my tastes rather than perceived problems)
  • Unseen Elder. I like Unseen Elder, but it is one of the best vampires. While a buff won't hurt the game, I would much brefer the buffs go to cards that are generally less obviously useful (Regis: Higher Vampire, Protofleder, Gael, Garkain, Plumard, Bruxa, etc.)
  • Roach. I don't appreciate the thinning cards (that is taste). But I also think there is good reason he was moved out of Golden Nekkar range -- and those reasons have not changed. He will exacerbate issues with Golden Compass being in Nekker range s well.
  • Endrega Larva. Larva is a good card that doesn't need further buff. I would rather see a buff for the more marginal thrive cards.
  • Novigrad. Although the three profit and order ability are lame for its provisions, the coin generation and carryover potential probably justifies Novigrad's initial cost. But I don't think changing it is at all broken either; I just think more meaningful buffs are easily found.
Questionable Buffs (May be good, but I have doubts)
  • Ruehin. Ruehin is rarely utilized and has an interesting effect (consuming smallest unit other than self upon Ruehin's resurrection). But MO has too many cards whose deathwish is to return to the board -- it does not need another in active use. To me, issue is really whether Ruehin will be used in addition to Dettlaff and Succubus or will be used in place of one of these or even in situations where neither of these is wanted.
  • Cleaver's Muscle. I wonder if players considered the effect on Cleaver (who becomes quite a dangerous card). I don't know how this will play out. Cleaver's Muscle also impacts Novigradian Justice, but I'm not concerned about that.
  • Kaedweni Renenant. This is a significant buff that is quite binary (heavily dependent upon an opponent's deck). It especially punishes decks that play many low power units and limited control. I agree that the card was basically dead (pun intended); I'm not sure it shouldn't stay that way.
Most of the other buffs were blah, but there were two I want to mention as good.
  • Vereena. Vereena is an interesting card that I believe was (and still is) over-priced.
  • Pulling the Strings. This is an awkward card still unlikely to derive value without disproportionate sacrifices. It is interesting, but I still don't know whether it is worth the effort.
GENERAL OBSERVATIONS
Although no single nerf was really unjustified, I think NG was over-nerfed. Hopefully future patches will bring some new compensation to balance (rather than destroy) the faction. I don't care whether people hate NG -- having 6 viable factions is important. for the game's health. Having punishment for out-of -control engine value is also essential.

MO clearly came out on top this patch with no nerfs and 6 or 7 undeserved buffs. If it weren't for one really bad decision that virtually catapults SK to top of the meta, I would say monsters is now badly overtuned.

If buffs continue to focus on near meta-level cards, we will never see the dream of a Gwent with multiple, varied viable decks/archetypes.
 
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Another oddity. Battle Stations is a tactic that has 1 power? The problem with Reavers "is" the nerf. It cannot spawn. It is 1 power. The order reads "set its base power to 1 less than self." 1-1=0. It is the same as taking the order off the card. It serves as a red dot. Also, Nilfgaard was completely gutted, and it wasn't even the strongest faction. There are Nilfgaard title decks that lost "10" provisions. Not liking to play against certain decks does not make them unfair or out of balance. I have played Reaver decks, beat them, and lost to them. Same with Nilfgaard.
 
MO clearly came out on top this patch with no nerfs and 6 or 7 undeserved buffs. If it weren't for one really bad decision that virtually catapults SK to top of the meta, I would say monsters is now badly overtuned.

If buffs continue to focus on near meta-level cards, we will never see the dream of a Gwent with multiple, varied viable decks/archetypes.
I'm a MO player myself and I think King Chrum as well as a few deathwish cards need a nerf. Chrum should not include itself in the Might keyword, that's the easiest and most balanced fix. Then there's the Frog used in deathwish decks that is too high tempo. It should be a gold card, not something you can have two copies of. Also that annoying insect that creates a copy of the consumed unit. I think this just highlights that some of these issues can't be resolved with just a provision or power nerf, not when the mechanic themselves are overtuned.

As for NG being "punishment for out-of -control engine value" ...this should not be a skill only NG possess. Who exactly counters their out of control engines? Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes. The MO faction has 1 lock card that no one plays because it has two conditions that are impossible to meet simultaneously and only works in a wild hunt deck. If other factions had the tools to counter NG then I would object to the nerfs but it's the most widely played faction for a reason, it's easy to pilot and cheap because there are little to no restrictions.
 
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Just an idea: Maybe the balance council could allow change provisions one month and then next month power, and be cyclic. This way could assess the impact on cards, and attempt to bring more balance next iteration.

Also, and maybe that is already out of the table due to possible development work needed: do the voting in two rounds: first round like today, and then a second round voting of the most voted cards per bucket.
 
end of october season and these are the changes we are starting with on november season.
 

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