[Bug] Patch 2.1: HDR Min Tone Map Luminance (MinTML or Black Floor) is non-zero

[vtsanders]

Hi CDPR,

There are a few bugs with how HDR works or scales in the game and I think it could use some refinement.

1. In the HDR Settings menu
-I have an OLEDtv, should the game be in HGIG mode? Some general instructions for tv settings, and how the game should look on consumer displays would be helpful.
-the images are not affected by the Tone-Mapping Midpoint setting; so to see how the black level in game is affected you have to unpause and exit the menu; images that represent the hdr affect of a game setting should work proportionally on the images in the setting presented to the user. We shouldn't unpause, go in game, look around, pause, then pause the game, adjust the setting, and repeat until optimized; not the best user experience.

2. The Min Tone Map Luminance (MinTML) of the game is non-zero; if the Tone Mapping Midpoint controls the black floor (as it currently works) then it doesn't default to true black (in game) and the scaling of the setting doesn't work proportionally to fix it. So there's no way to correctly adjust the game for OLED display's True black capabilities. Is there a way to implement System level HGIG and the game map the MinTML according to that?

Furthermore, before posting here in the forum I tried looking on Youtube, reddit, AVSForum, etc and found a number of Youtubers reporting similar experiences but I'm unsure if you have reviewed their feedback. I've shared them below:

• Vincent Teoh of HDTVTest​
  • Cyberpunk 2077 HDR is Broken on PS5 & Xbox Series X Regardless of HDR Settings
  • Cyberpunk 2077 HDR vs SDR Comparison after Patch 1.05: Which is Better?
    

• Marcus from GamingTech
  • Cyberpunk 2077 - NEW HDR10+ SETTINGS/FEATURES - UPDATE 2.1 - IS HDR NOW BETTER?
  • Cyberpunk 2077 Update 2.0 - HDR Analyze & Settings for Xbox & PS5 - Is HDR Fixed?

• Ariel from PlasmaTV for Gaming
  • Final Cyberpunk 2077 HDR settings for PC. Designed for 800 nits HGIG, but easily adaptable to any TV
  • Guide to The best HDR analysis tool for your PC. Cyberpunk HDR is finally fixed for all displays.

I hope this feedback finds you and that you're able to update the HDR implementation for the game and how the menu and images scale for all displays including OLED.

-V

 

[bitterkevin]

Yeah, I just finally started this game last night. I noticed that in HDR it doesn’t have true black, the black level is very high. I have a XSX with a Sony Z9J, which is a super fancy TV and generally the HDR looks incredible except for the fact that It never gets truly black. is this an aesthetic choice like with Starfield? I imagine people with OLEDs probably hate it. I don’t really understand the tone mapping midpoint setting either. And everyone online has a different answer.

 

[vtsanders]

Maybe their colorist didn't have an OLED monitor during development. I'm hoping they fix it; feels like a refinement of a scaler problem. hopefully, it's not a lot of work.

 

[Zem]

I'm using "console mode" with its "source tone mapping ON" settings for my Alienware (Samsung) QD-OLED on PC. Is that similar to HGIG mode on your TV? I am new to this stuff. But it definitely looks better to me. That and tone midpoint to 1.0 fixed any problems I had with dark scenes looking washed out.

I have problems with other games. I just got this monitor last month and I've tried CP2077 and a couple of the newer Assassin's Creed games like Odyssey, Origins, and Valhalla. CP2077 looks best in HDR so far among those with the above changes. Odyssey in particular looks great in daylight scenes and terrible inside of caves or other dark areas. Nights are too bright. etc. (though to be honest even in SDR that game is too bright at night/in-caves).

It's confusing to me because I'm thinking to myself, "Why isn't it as simple as mapping black to 0 luminance?" Is this one of those things that's just more complicated than it seems like it should be?

 

[vtsanders]

I think we're still in a bit of a transition for best practices involving HDR implementations. All game developers are doing it differently i.e., neither Cyberpunk2077 nor The Witcher 3 support HGIG on consoles or PC. It'd be amazing if consoles could just read the tv EDID and map accordingly.

Dolby Vision and HDR10+ gaming are solutions that attempts to solve tone mapping but implementations require engine plug-ins and developer adoption. Moreover, Dolby Vision isn't free -Cyberpunk just got HDR10+ but only for NVidia GPU's and Samsung tv's in patch 2.1. There's a HDR format war still at play here lol. Finally, no game has been made with a native implementation during development of Dolby Vision nor HDR10+. So I'm unsure if the dynamic metadata difference can actually be noticed.

I also think the colorist at various game studios are not using HDR color space (bt2020/p3); instead we're getting mostly SDR colorspace (rec.709) mapped to HDR (with brightness and mostly correct contrast). This is probably because the availability of OLED monitors is relatively new and most of these games were probably graded using an LED/LCD panel.

With the aforementioned above and OLED HDR monitors/tvs becoming more affordable, maybe HDR implementations will mature this decade. The displays used during QA and while the game is being color graded probably all need to be replaced with higher end OLED models.

Maybe gamers can get a 'Creators Intent' and an 'Gamer's Preference' HDR mode where we have more controls over the min/max levels, tone-mapping midpoints, HGIG, etc.

We just have to keep providing feedback and hope they hear us.

 

[Zem]

Maybe gamers can get a 'Creators Intent' and an 'Gamer's Preference' HDR mode where we have more controls over the min/max levels, tone-mapping midpoints, HGIG, etc.

I'd be fine with this. Speaking as a gamer (and probably for most gamers), perfect color reproduction is not as important as a deep black level and good contrast with no detail crushing at either end. Give me enough knobs to turn to adjust that and I am happy. They can fight amongst themselves about industry standards.

 

[krismate]

HDR gaming is a total shitshow tbh. It's all over the place with many titles not really being developed with HDR in mind. Don't expect CDPR to do anything about HDR in CP2077, people have been providing feedback since launch and not much has changed. If you're on PC, there are mods that can improve things however.

 

[amelia124]

Several issues with HDR in the game need attention for optimal user experience. Guidance on TV settings, especially for OLED TVs, and the impact of HGIG mode would be beneficial. The Tone-Mapping Midpoint setting should affect images in the menu proportionally, and Min Tone Map Luminance needs adjustment for OLED displays to achieve true black.

 

[vtsanders]

I was really hoping they'd correct it in the current patch 2.11; there's at least one more remaining for FSR 3. fingers-crossed.