CDPR READ THIS - Fix Johnny's memories

[Lomborg0201]

This is for CDPR.

There's this theory that Johnny's memories have been altered while inside Mikoshi, and therefore a lot of the things you see during Johnny's memories are actually false, because most of these events play out differently in previously established CP lore.

However... When you board the flying vehicle with Rogue, as Johnny controlling V, in the Rogue-ending, Johnny (V) slips and Rogue catches you and says "Not this time, Honey", indicating Johnny's memories were real, when Johnny was left behind during the escape on top of Arasaka Tower.

So either you put that line in by mistake or you simply retconned a lot of established CP lore.

I'd much prefer Johnny's memories are false, because it makes the story 10x deeper than it is, and also open up interesting possibilities for future stories.

You should really check out this video explaining the theory, if you did not intentionally do this:

Sincerely a fan

P.S. Don't be like BioWare and deny this, like they denied The Indoctrination Theory that made their ending 100x better than it was

 

[Sardukhar]

Errr...I think you should check out Firestorm:Shockwave to find out what happened to Johnny in 2023. Scene is fine.

And, yes, his memories are quite goobered. He's most probably a construct of the real Johnny, either wholly false or based on/modified from actual Johnny. Along with quite a few other things post-DataKrash.

 

[Lomborg0201]

Errr...I think you should check out Firestorm:Shockwave to find out what happened to Johnny in 2023. Scene is fine.

And, yes, his memories are quite goobered. He's most probably a construct of the real Johnny, either wholly false or based on/modified from actual Johnny. Along with quite a few other things post-DataKrash.

The Cyberpunk Wiki says he never reached the roof and was actually cut in half to a shotgun shot by Adam Smasher. It also says the engram from 2077 has a different tale of the event (under 2020s). Which is why the line from Rogue is conflicting, unless you claim the Wiki is wrong (The source on the Wiki says Firestorm:Shockwave).

Johnny Silverhand

Johnny Silverhand, born Robert John Linder, was a famous and influential rockerboy and lead singer of the band Samurai before its breakup in 2008. A military veteran who defined the rockerboy movement as it is known today, Silverhand was the most prominent figure who fought against the corrupted...

cyberpunk.fandom.com

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Jonnhy also die in the same way during "The Fall Of The Towers" in Cyberpunk Red, in which CD Projekt Red was involved too.
But there is an important point :
If Johnny was dead as described in these stories, it couldn't be the engram on the Relic and the one we "know". Making an engram from a dead person result to an incomplete and damaged engram, like it's the case for Jackie (if you send his corpse to Viktor). So Johnny must be alive when the engram was created by SoulKiller.

 

[Lomborg0201]

Jonnhy also die in the same way during "The Fall Of The Towers" in Cyberpunk Red, in which CD Projekt Red was involved too.
But there is an important point :
If Johnny was dead as described in these stories, it couldn't be the engram on the Relic and the one we "know". Making an engram from a dead person result to an incomplete and damaged engram, like it's the case for Jackie (if you send his corpse to Viktor). So Johnny must be alive when the engram was created by SoulKiller.
View attachment 11341363View attachment 11341366

Spider Murphy inserted something into Johnny before he died.

Probably related to the engram?

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Spider Murphy inserted something into Johnny before he died.

Probably related to the engram?

It can't... In 2023, the Relic technology doesn't exist (and won't exist until about 50 years).
In 2077, the Relic 1.0 which can only store engram to communicate with, has just been released. The Relic 2.0, which can install an engram in a dead body, remains a technology under secret development (V's one is a prototype). And even Arasaka only controls/knows this technology (nobody else) and Soukiller remains the only way to create engram (Soulkiller, an AI that only arasaka possesses and masters).

So at the end, this only fact (Johnny as functional engram on the Relic in 2077) tend to lead that all the official events (Johnny died under the tower rubbles) or the stories told (Johnny died by Adam Smasher) are false... Even if Johnny memories might not be really accurate and could have been modified by Arasaka, he was well alive when Arasaka create an engram of him with Soulkiller

 

[Lomborg0201]

It can't... In 2023, the Relic technology doesn't exist (and won't exist until about 50 years).
In 2077, the Relic 1.0 which can only store engram to communicate with, has just been released. The Relic 2.0, which can install an engram in a dead body, remains a technology under secret development (V's one is a prototype). And even Arasaka only controls/knows this technology (nobody else) and Soukiller remains the only way to create engram (Soulkiller, an AI that only arasaka possesses and masters).

So at the end, this only fact (Johnny as functional engram on the Relic in 2077) tend to lead that all the official events (Johnny died under the tower rubbles) or the stories told (Johnny died by Adam Smasher) are false... Even if Johnny memories might not be really accurate and could have been modified by Arasaka, he was well alive when Arasaka create an engram of him with Soulkiller

But didn’t Alt Cunningham invent Soulkiller? Wasn’t that why they abducted her in the first place? And wouldn’t that mean they would’ve been able to store his engram back then? I’m a bit confused now

 

[LeKill3rFou]

But didn’t Alt Cunningham invent Soulkiller? Wasn’t that why they abducted her in the first place? And wouldn’t that mean they would’ve been able to store his engram back then? I’m a bit confused now

Yes, Alt created Soulkiller (the base program), but :
Since she dies (partially due to johnny) and until 2023, she was trapped in Arasaka sub-network (Arasaka couldn't do anything against her. But she was also unable to do anything against Arasaka). The only thing she did, it's to contact Johnny to say to him to not come save her (to give up for once, because too many people already died for no reason).
She was free later and escape behind the blackwall only because Johnny choose to ignore her advice and participate to the Militech assault to save her whatever the cost.
Johnny doesn't care about the bomb or militech plans (that's why Rogue keep asking him if he remember the plan, to plant the bomb,...) He was just there to be able to access to the Arasaka sub-network and upload the malware "Liberator" to free Alt... That's his only goal in this all operation^^

So no, in 2023, when Johnny died, only Arasaka have Soulkiller and engrams can't be stored in something which is as small as a chip (hence Mikoshi) and it will take about 50 years to Arasaka to manage to store engrams on a chip. i.e to create a chip which can store an engram. But Soukiller remains the only way to create engrams and still operating from Mikoshi.


Edit :

And wouldn’t that mean they would’ve been able to store his engram back then? I’m a bit confused now

Nope, at this time and until very recently, Soulkiller was always lethal... Also toke about 50 years to Arasaka to make it non-lethal. It means that in 2023 (unlike in 2077), if you used Soulkiller to create an engram, the dude is mandatory dead after the process.

 

[GogRelvas]

Actually Soulkiller was able to extract engrams back then. Arasaka used to trap people's engrams and extract information through virtual torture. The body would die in the process but they were able to keep the engrams back then aswell. That's what happened to Alt, although her engram escaped Mikoshi and went to the old net. Corporations later used Soulkiller versions as firewalls, killing net runners directly from the net.
But in this piece of lore, Spider seems to have used a Soulkiller version on Johnny, given to her by Alt.

 

[Kid_SixXx]

The whole point of Johnny Silverhand the Character is to serve as an unreliable narrator so of course his memories and recollections are totally sus. Johnny is little more than hacked software on a chip now so even if he is "lying," he is unaware that he is "lying."

 

[AlienSpaceBats]

There are canon events of the AHQ bombing now, so I've always thought of this line as a callback. It's a good one, but unfortunately does get in the way of aforementioned events. As far as I'm concerned it just exists for this specific ending, specifically in the 2077 game. I suppose if you really wanted to nitpick you could maybe argue Rogue is referring to V/Johnny's multiple blackouts, not specifically the instance in Johnny's 2023 "memories" where Rogue let him go...

It's definitely a callback to that, though.

 

[R001c]

There's history, there is what people said happened and there is what actually happened. Anyone who has a grip on all three is either an AI or a god because human memory is not a recording and even honest people have a tendency to make things up to create a story of what happened.
And yet, throughout history, we find people declaring, 'This is the absolute truth'.

The desert eats map makers.

 

[bauerkn]

If this is all based on the line "not this time", it can be used without any implication.. Imagine playing the lottery and not winning (surprise), you might say "not this time". But that has no influence whatsoever on winning some other time.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

The whole point of Johnny Silverhand the Character is to serve as an unreliable narrator so of course his memories and recollections are totally sus. Johnny is little more than hacked software on a chip now so even if he is "lying," he is unaware that he is "lying."

Yeah, his memories have great chances to be false or at least, not accurate. Even if Arasaka claims that engrams can't be modified, we know that they can and they already did.
It could explain why there is "a cut" after that Johnny faced Smasher in the tower... This cut in Johnny's memories was maybe made by Arasaka on purpose, because there were some clues in these memories at that moment. Clues which could have involve Militech, who know