One of the "strengths" of the game is the exploration. Having every fucking thing marked on the map kills most of the reason to explore in the context of gameplay.
Marking gigs is fine as long as you get it from the fixer first, instead of having them magically there waiting for you when you start the game.
I'm here for the quests not the exploration. Night City is nice and all and beautiful to look at but I want to get to my next job and not miss any.
Yeah. So CDPR probably didn't go with "radiant" or procedural quests because at one point they claimed they didn't do fetch quests, obviously referencing the Bethesda-style radiant stuff which hit new lows in Fallout 4.
Ironically what they ended up is functionally the same thing, but hard-coded.
What CDPR ended up with for the open world content is no better than radiant quests, so either way they need to re-evaluate their approach and priorities.
Then you can go directly to the fixer or get a phone call when they have something ready.
The whole point of an open world is exploration. If you want to be spoon-fed content, playing a different genre of game is generally the best strategy.
The Hero's journey have nothing to do with a recipe to success ESPECIALLY :
A - for modern storytelling. THe Hero's journey is a model of stories that was told mainstream pre-1995.
Since that time, modern storytelling evolved and are not automaticly following these archetypes of stories. This storytelling model is used in less that 50% of the movies today. Though it is hugely used in videogames, but this is rarer in videogames telling crime stories.
Modern storytelling was hugely influenced by (non exclusive list) :
- X-Files (which set the metaplot trend and the Deus Ex Machina trend, that last was transformed later using Tchekov's gun law) then...
- Usual Suspect and/or The Others and/or... (shifted the trend from X-File rule to enforce Tchekov's rule).
- Cliffhanger, who gave its name to a very trendy narrative design (Cliffhanger's cliffhanger is to be understand in literal sense, it evolved)
- Games of Thrones and/or Breaking Bad - plot construction by relation - read the indie dice and paper rpg "Hillfolk" to have a peek view at that model. Used in TW2's act 1 for exemple, or TW3 (which is a cross-over of this and a systemic approach (for exemple, with the Red Baron) and Hero's journey).
- Truman Show and/or Donnie Darko (for their system).
- Pulp Fiction (for its deconstruction of the time)
- ... and many many more I forgot.
Even Disney changed, Disney who were Campbell's boss at the moment he wrote that. The last Star Wars trilogy isn't "only one" hero's journey anymore, it is hero's journey in parallel (rey/kylo) that crosses themselves at designed points, with minor journey "by film" like the one from Han Solo in movie 1 or Luke in movie 2 that also crosses the main characters' journeys.
B - Crimes stories / whodunnit / MacGuffin doesn't fit the hero's journey. 90% of tabletop CP scenarios are macguffins. There, this is Hitchcock land, not Campbell. You have to use a systemic and/or a relation model to design that stuff (and there are recipes, and they are no way near the hero's journey).
C - Wikipedia says : "Modern storytelling has a broad purview. In addition to its traditional forms (fairytales, folktales, mythology, legends, fables etc.), it has extended itself to representing history, personal narrative, political commentary and evolving cultural norms. Contemporary storytelling is also widely used to address educational objectives."
A computer can't create leassons. You would have only the form and not the content. And with no content, you have only an illusionary support for the player's imagination. Once he figures it is an empty shell, he will detest that.
That article clearly opposes Campbell' stuff (mythology etc) from stories that have content today.
D - Humans can use the Tchekov's gun. Computer can't hide it in plain view without making it obvious.
This is "hey I will tell you the story of a crime [THE NARATOR IS THE CULPRIT] woops, wanna still play it ?"
As a dungeon master / amateur gamedesigner (around 10 games allready), the "only good part" of the Hero's Journey for naration today is its archetypes.
And as an informatic ingeneer, I don't really understand why you say this is "cheap and easy" to do, especially with voiced dialogues.
You sound like the guy saying "hey guys, I have a neat idea, cheap and easy, let's redo Google because I know the core algorythm, easy, no ?".
Actually, the core algorythm is the easiest part in what you say. In term of integration, world building, sound (music and voices), staging, balancing and QA, it is soooooooooooooooo not cheap...
Also, I fail to see how you manage to write interesting dialogues in your mission generator : "go fetch rats [YES/NO]", or "Side with Arasaka [YES/NO]" is the opposite of what CDPR doesb usually.
I'd recommend seeing this, from Inkle, which know their stuff in term of dialogues. That's what CDPR did on TW3, that they forgot a little with CP77. And no, this is not procedural, this can't simply be.
Also, play Disco Elyseum (from ZA/UM) or Heaven's Vault (from Inkle). I think Ubisoft saw that conference and made progress since AC: Odyssey, it is clear that they evolved from the exemples of that conference to make AC: Valhalla.
Now, about character building... What can a computer do ? Your crowd exemple you gave in the OT are good, but appart that, it can't really be interesting, no ?
In GTA5, do you stay with NPC or by the moment you saw the pattern you leave ? This is the problem of this illusion : once it's dispelled, the player flees.
"No illusion" is bad, I agree on that, though. But you can't have a story driven game based on a IA, it need main characters and character building.
-edit- grammar/spelling (my native tongue is french) - and I did not even told about sh!tty french scenarios trends : "sensations... emotions... the air... the void... this is unfair so let's make love...." wtf
.But still, if you want something french and modern that have a good scenario (to the level of stuff cited earlier), go watch "A Prophet" by Jacques Audiard (2009). (97% on rotten tomato: link) . This one is a crossover of Gangster / Noir. All time favorite film from one of my best friends.
-edit again- links and exemples.
-edit 3- more details about character building
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In my arms ! I posted yesterday about that
(edit : link)
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Let's begin with the last part.
Which open world (singleplayer) RPG delivered what you described to date? Meaning actually using procedually generated quests that had a narrative impact that surprised or delighted you, or even dared touching of the corner stones of the main stories?
I could name maybe 2 - whereas i wouldn't describe the narration as being an important part. Those are feeling more like simulations...
Now onto your first part.
You're not really describing something algorithmic there, other than a random number generator choosing between prewritten story details. And fail to account that your idea would mean that a writer would have to actually develop equally well developed stories that work with the "story cards" the system chooses equally well.
Meaning it began as A-B-C, all needs to fit and work well now becomes, A-1-C; A-2-C whereas A must fit both 1 and 2 and 1 and 2 must both fit C, but 1 and 2 must be equally good... So a lot harder to pull off, right?
Or to put it differently, change alone to a playthrough, doesn't make the playthrough more fun. It doesn't make a story good.
Keep mashing that button all you like. Here are the title page and abstract of my Master's thesis, with my name removed.
@FLyingMonkeyPaints
You sure you want to show of the title of your thesis and the university, when you don't want people to know your name? Because you know how easy it is to look such things up, right?
You sure you want to show of the title of your thesis and the university, when you don't want people to know your name? Because you know how easy it is to look such things up, right?
sooo in few world you want simply another game, its impossible to add all the things you want in an already created game, you need totally a new game, if (but impossible) they add all you ask you will likely encounter ton of bugs, in italy we say "tra il dire è il fare c'è di mezzo il mare"
So you want Assassins Creed in 2010.
Millions of icons on a map that served nothing but filler
I am familiar with how the internet works, lol. I don't think knowing my name really is a problem, if somebody really wants to look it up. It's all public record in the University library. If folks want to cyberstalk me because of a post on a game forum, whatever.
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This was less a "do this to fix your game" and more a "here's how you could have done better" post. I doubt they would implement sweeping changes now, but if they don't do *something* about the aspects of the game I mentioned as being woefully deficient, CP2077 will die quickly and nobody will buy the next CDPR game either.
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Everybody has a different idea on the game they want to play. This post was about how to get closer to the game that was promised, not necessarily "the perfect game".
I am familiar with how the internet works, lol. I don't think knowing my name really is a problem, if somebody really wants to look it up. It's all public record in the University library. If folks want to cyberstalk me because of a post on a game forum, whatever.
Okay, just felt wierd
The thing is, you would produce mountains of content (think of all the voiced dialogue lines for all the necessary branching paths) for the trash, as most people play a game like this once, some play it twice, and only a very small number of die hard fans will do more playthroughs than that, so it's more than enough to have 2-3 distinct paths that allow for enough new things to make a new game interesting. If they went at it your way, a lot of production budget would go into things the majority of players never see - you generally try to avoid that.
Also, I have never played a game with procedurally generated content that was even close to being as high quality as handcrafted quests and events. Most people (those who do 1 or at best 2 playthroughs) won't even realize it's "canned", as they'll never run into the issue of seeing things a second time. You are advocating to invest millions into systems that improve the experience for maybe 5% of players.
I agree with you - it would be just a trick to make it seem longer by hiding quests.
Nope.
You have icons appear as you get close. Sometimes you would just have a question mark until you discover what it is.
Eliminating the minimap and using a compass makes things also way more immersive because you are staring at the world instead of a 3x3 minimap and a gold arrow
This should definitely be in the game, at least as part of a customizable HUD, so players can pick and choose what they prefer. Mini-map, Compass, or both.
mostly good suggestions op but regarding to first point, that's literally not how cdpr's narrative in their games works. I wish it did.