Do you actually like CP77 being shorter then Witcher3 ?

[Didacgomez]

Well Troika dident have the same goodwill and love that CDPR hade, not too mention all the money they made from W3 and getting cash from shops/gog/investors. The games might be similar but the companys dont seem similar at all. That said, i still bought VTM:B and played the hell outa it (still play it, once a year atleast). Bugs/glitches dident matter since it was a awsome game. Just like they would not do in this game for me if i really loved the game. Sadly i dont. I really wanted too but i just cant.

I understand, i was not trying to convert you to CP2077(if you survived bloodlines bugfest i doubt any CDPR update might change what you don't like of CP2077).
Was more the point that devs have a tough job even if working on goodwill( i think Troika crunched all except 4% of their time in Bloodlines,Malkavian dialogue is basically a sleep deprived writer on crunch).

 

[Notserious80]

I understand, i was not trying to convert you to CP2077(if you survived bloodlines bugfest i doubt any CDPR update might change what you don't like of CP2077).
Was more the point that devs have a tough job even if working on goodwill( i think Troika crunched all except 4% of their time in Bloodlines,Malkavian dialogue is basically a sleep deprived writer on crunch).

I dont hate it tbh, i just dont love it as much as i thought. Yea i dont think ill ever trust them enough too blindly preorder anything again, witch is good for me i guess but not great for the company. Just makes me depressed too think about since it was probably the only game i looked forward to for a loooong time. Malkavian dialogue is probably one of the best things about that game tho so! (the hints about the story and so on is really neat for a replay)

 

[Mybrokenenglish]

It's not the case for Cyberpunk, true. It would have been if the game was a hardcore, oldschool, pure RPG.
Kingdom Come: Deliverance is open world RPG and it exceeds Cyberpunk 2077 in depth and complexity by a large margin. It sold 3 million copies, which is not exactly the number CDPR and other AAA studios are looking for.

Yes, and 3 millions for KCD are a huge success, still helped by the fact it still is an open world action RPG. Way more complex than CP and with way less marketing and budget, so the results can't be as good as the ones from CDPR. also pretty bugged LOL

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Kingdom Come: Deliverance is open world RPG and it exceeds Cyberpunk 2077 in depth and complexity by a large margin. It sold 3 million copies, which is not exactly the number CDPR and other AAA studios are looking for.

Knowing that KCD has the worst % of gamers who finished it in my entire Xbox library (only 3%).
Too long ? Too hard ? Too realistic ? Bad save system ? Who know ?

 

[Liquidcyberpunk]

I think CDPR is planning to "extend" the main quest with more side-quest content in the new DLC. Are you guys excited for the DLC?

 

[Notserious80]

Can still enjoy a game without finishing it tbh. I love pathfinder:kingmaker and have over 250h in it and i havent even gotten close to finishing it since i allways come up with new builds and characters. I think i did finish KCD tho with some mods (save system is kinda annoying) It is hard, but its supposed to be so im fine with it. The game is pretty awsome for world immersion and realism.

Post automatically merged: Jul 27, 2021

I think CDPR is planning to "extend" the main quest with more side-quest content in the new DLC. Are you guys excited for the DLC?

Since i know absolutely nothing about it yet im not. Hopefully it will add more to the game and with free dlc+patches ill like the game more but im not holding my breath exactly.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Can still enjoy a game without finishing it tbh. I love pathfinder:kingmaker and have over 250h in it and i havent even gotten close to finishing it since i allways come up with new builds and characters. I think i did finish KCD tho with some mods (save system is kinda annoying) It is hard, but its supposed to be so im fine with it. The game is pretty awsome for world immersion and realism.

No, but it is not only the achievement of having finished the game, almost all the achievements are below 10% (it is only those which concern the very beginning which are at 25/35%). So if there was to be a KCD 2, I'm not sure if the "success" will be there
Max level : 0.56%
All the quests : 1.03%
Well seen in all the villages : 0.84%

I think CDPR is planning to "extend" the main quest with more side-quest content in the new DLC. Are you guys excited for the DLC?

By whatever CDPR want to add to the game

 

[Guest 3847602]

Yes, and 3 millions for KCD are a huge success, still helped by the fact it still is an open world action RPG. Way more complex than CP and with way less marketing and budget, so the results can't be as good as the ones from CDPR. also pretty bugged LOL

Yeah, thankfully, it was a huge success, but my point was that the game is too much of an RPG for the mainstream audience, to the point where it intimidated casual players despite having beautiful graphics, well-written story and very good voice acting. Game such as this is never going to sell 10+ million copies, no matter the marketing.

Knowing that KCD has the worst % of gamers who finished it in my entire Xbox library (only 3%).
Too long ? Too hard ? Too realistic ? Bad ave system ? Who know ?

Probably the save system and monastery quest. I really loved both of these things.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Probably the save system and monastery quest. I really loved both of these things.

Me too
Maybe also the fact that when you meet three guys in knight armor, you have to run away and not fight (at the risk of losing an hour of progress).
Or the fact that you're a poor peasant who never held a sword in his life and just good at running behind his lord's horse. We couldn't be more far of a charismatic hero

 

[Guest 3847602]

Me too
Maybe also the fact that when you meet three guys in knight armor, you have to run away and not fight (at the risk of losing an hour of progress).

Spoiler

Not a problem with Clinch Master and Headcracker perks unlocked and Baliff's mace in your hand.

 

[Didacgomez]

Yeah, thankfully, it was a huge success, but my point was that the game is too much of an RPG for the mainstream audience, to the point where it intimidated casual players despite having beautiful graphics, well-written story and very good voice acting. Game such as this is never going to sell 10+ million copies, no matter the marketing.

Probably the save system and monastery quest. I really loved both of these things.

And it was not that cheap either even if they break even and score profit, 30+million usd?

Post automatically merged: Jul 27, 2021

Just for context (if somebody has more accurate numbers please correct me): Witcher 3 with DLCs is 80 million (34 in development) USD.

 

[Mybrokenenglish]

Yeah, thankfully, it was a huge success, but my point was that the game is too much of an RPG for the mainstream audience, to the point where it intimidated casual players despite having beautiful graphics, well-written story and very good voice acting. Game such as this is never going to sell 10+ million copies, no matter the marketing.

Yes, I got it and I agree.

 

[Guest 3847602]

Just for context (if somebody has more accurate numbers please correct me): Witcher 3 with DLCs is 80 million (34 in development) USD.

It was about 80 million in total for base game only, I don't remember them disclosing how much they've spent on expansions.

 

[KeldornOfLatria]

Sorry to come in here way too late, but the premise of this topic is worthy of discussion, namely the idea that Witcher 3 was "too long".

The problem why so many players didn't finish Witcher 3 isn't that it was too long. It was that the beginning of the game is pretty boring. I mean, I'm a huge fan of the first two games and that was the only reason I pulled through. And the beginnings of Witcher 1 and 2 are pretty slow, too, so i knew it was worth it. CDPR just aren't great at making good beginnings.
It was once again a case of marketing people making the wrong conclusions from big data. Just make an overall great game with a great story and I won't care if it takes 80 or 120 hours to finish. I'll just gladly play it.

 

[Didacgomez]

It was about 80 million in total for base game only, I don't remember them disclosing how much they've spent on expansions.

Thanks for the correction (i'm losing google skilks ) , still 80 millions vs 35 and compare number of copies sold in 3 years with Kingdom kind of emphasizes your point about "hardcore" RPG as target public.

Sorry to come in here way too late, but the premise of this topic is worthy of discussion, namely the idea that Witcher 3 was "too long".

The problem why so many players didn't finish Witcher 3 isn't that it was too long. It was that the beginning of the game is pretty boring. I mean, I'm a huge fan of the first two games and that was the only reason I pulled through. And the beginnings of Witcher 1 and 2 are pretty slow, too, so i knew it was worth it. CDPR just aren't great at making good beginnings.
It was once again a case of marketing people making the wrong conclusions from big data. Just make an overall great game with a great story and I won't care if it takes 80 or 120 hours to finish. I'll just gladly play it.

I see your point, but imho if beginning is boring most people will not even go further (statistics kind of prove that) so for them its too long already if the 20 or so 1st hours are "boring" or intro to story.
I'm not saying that shortening story for us forum dwellers its good, but objectively we don't pay for 100+ million of development costs.

 

[CTPhipps]

The Polish government actually paid for Night City to be developed as an artistic accomplishment too. 7 million in free money basically.

CD Projekt RED Gets $7 Million from Polish Government To Research Seamless Multiplayer, City Creation

CD Projekt RED got the biggest cut ($7 million) of the Polish government's GameINN funding program for game developers.

wccftech.com

 

[Bloodartist]

Certainly a valid point. I think it was a complete disaster and contributed to the dissatisfaction with the game.

Frankly, I feel like Cyberpunk 2077 feels like 2/3rds of the size it should be and this is a feeling I only felt with Mankind Divided where they literally split the game in half.

I generally never finish my games, or reach 100% completion. I want to savor them, make every story drop feel like its important. I want to be surprised, constantly finding something new, have the game feel "alive". I feel that if I reach 100% completion, the game would be dead to me.

I consider AC Odyssey to be one of the top 3 action RPGs I have ever played, or at least the ones that pulled me in the most, and I am not even close to finishing its DLC. I have 59% of its achievements, at 169 hours of gameplay.

The way l look at action RPGs seems like a polar opposite of what CDPR thinks I should think. I dont really care about replay value, although I recognize some do.

This difference in approach is not the only issue. CP2077 main storyline is almost at a collision course with its side content, they have nothing to do with each other. The main story urges you forward all the time, with every meeting happening during the next hour almost. There is a sense of urgency. And you die at the end, so the side content basically DOESN'T EVEN MATTER. Its obvious that side content and main story are written by completely different people and there was no supervision to ensure that overall experience works out.

What is worse, you are told in the very beginning that you will die, so never have any motivation to do any of the side content. At least I don't see the point. Why should I care about any of this? You can only make loss meaningful if I have become invested in it. There was never any chance to become invested. The main story completely devalues the side content.

From a storytelling perspective, I think that CP2077 storytelling is a textbook example of how to NOT write a story. There is no time in the main story to form relationships or become invested in any of the characters. CDPR made an "artsy" story which is complete contradiction with basic storytelling rules. Everything is backwards. Nothing works together. Everything that could go wrong, has gone wrong in the storytelling. Yet story was supposed to be CP2077s greatest strength. No wonder people are so up at arms.

The only ways forward for CP2077 that I can see, are either retconning the story, or allowing players to make a new, completely different character from V and let them play it going forwards. I don't presume to know what they had in mind, because my brain cannot comprehend to understand what they COULD have had in mind. Apart from wanting this to fail from the very start.

 

[CTPhipps]

Oddly, you could fix it pretty easily.

Johnny: You should do some Edgerunner work inbetween our missions. We probably need money to get your cure and contacts. It's a long shot but every bit helps.

The absence of this is weird.

Hell, even Watch_Dogs: Legion has Jackson say, "This will take awhile. Go do other stuff."

 

[Mybrokenenglish]

Even easier: don't tell V is dying, let them think they're immortal thanks to the relic (which would help V becoming a legend doing a lot of contracts). Let them do as many contract as they want, just say the cure is to get rid of Johnny from their head. Then, after some missions from the main quest (mid game) make V start feeling bad for the relic, major issues, Victor realizes the relic is taking over, now V knows their dying, now it's urgent. Now you focus on main quest.

 

[cartlidge]

Skye's words told me to do what I wanted to do.

"You go through night city knowing a stray bullet could end you whilst hailing a cab but that's never stopped you from taking action, going where you needed to go and it wont stop you now"

"Never look back, if you gotta kill, kill, if you gotta burn it all to the ground then let it burn"

To me this told me to do what I thought needed doing, don't let the fear of death put you off you live with that fear every day