End of turn is not the same as end of round.... if you are the second player to pass, the round ends immediately. If you are the first player to pass, the round does not end, and so it proceeds to end of turn.
in short, it's the difference between EOL(Endo of Line) and EOF(End of File). there is no EOL after EOF
in short, it's the difference between EOL(Endo of Line) and EOF(End of File). there is no EOL after EOF
Void_Singer;n10887621 said:
This rule is counter-intuitive. Core game mechanics should be easier to understand than software technicalities. Your computer file analogy is one such technicality, and it even adds more confusion because it's wrong on multiple levels. First, EOL is an actual character or character sequence that is stored in the file, while EOF is a condition that is met after you've read/skipped all of the file's contents. Second, proper text files do have an EOL as their last character(s). AFAICT it's mostly DOS-Windows convention to use EOL as line separator (and thus not putting it after the last line in a file), rather than line terminator (which, as the name End-Of-Line suggests, is the proper usage).
If a turn didn't end, it would continue indefinitely, which obviously isn't the case. And it's unintuitive to have the last turn extend beyond the end of round. The way I had to explain this mechanic to myself was that when I pass second, this happens:
1. on-pass effects resolve
2. unit abilities paused (will be unpaused after next round's mulligan)
3. turn ends
4. round ends, winner decided
5. units sent to graveyard
Although I've learned to play along with the current rules, I'm not quite satisfied with them. I understand that making end-of-turn effects trigger somewhere between on-pass and round-end is easier said than done, as it would definitely change the power of some cards, but I still hope the rules can be made more intuitive.
that's not how EOL and EOF work*, but anyways the breakdown of a turn is much simpler than what you posted.
Turn Start: Automated turn start effects happen here (Top, left to right, etc units before row effects)
Turn Interaction: play effects happen here (Passing is an interaction)
Turn End: Automated turn end effects happen here (Top, left to right, etc units before row effects)
first player to pass may no longer interact with the board, the second player to do so ends the round. Round end trumps all.
in your example there are no steps 2-3.
*in general terms EOF is usually null encoded (binary 0), and when not, it's length encoded. doesn't matter what might be expected next, it's done.
Turn Start: Automated turn start effects happen here (Top, left to right, etc units before row effects)
Turn Interaction: play effects happen here (Passing is an interaction)
Turn End: Automated turn end effects happen here (Top, left to right, etc units before row effects)
first player to pass may no longer interact with the board, the second player to do so ends the round. Round end trumps all.
in your example there are no steps 2-3.
*in general terms EOF is usually null encoded (binary 0), and when not, it's length encoded. doesn't matter what might be expected next, it's done.
This had me confused too. It seems counter-intuitive that the round should end before the turn.
In programming it might make sense, but to those of us using the program it is mainly a card-game. And compared with other card-games this is a strange rule.
To use another analogy: the war ends before the battle does... shirley that can't be write.
In programming it might make sense, but to those of us using the program it is mainly a card-game. And compared with other card-games this is a strange rule.
To use another analogy: the war ends before the battle does... shirley that can't be write.
So I have just played a game where I have "Triss: Butterflies" on the board, yet the effect of the card did not proc upon game end.
The effect of the card reads as follows: "Boost the *Lowest* allies upon turn end." I assume that my turn has to end first before the game itself ends, right? So then even if my turn is the last turn of the game and I was passing due to having no cards in hand, the card effect should still proc (which it didn't).
I lost the game because of it, since I had a siege row of 5 or 6 lowest allies at 1 power, and the game was really really close. :/
Has anyone else encountered a similar situation, or is it that "game ends before the turn ends if the current turn is the last turn" is just accepted as the convention?
Edit: Sorry guys! I was quite tilted after losing the game, so I came onto the forum for the first time and I immediately created this post under the "gameplay" section, which I later realized should go under "technical". I haven't found a way to delete posts yet (hopefully not just because I am blind at times), so this might just sit here for a while before I find out how to delete posts and repost this to an existing thread under "technical"...
The effect of the card reads as follows: "Boost the *Lowest* allies upon turn end." I assume that my turn has to end first before the game itself ends, right? So then even if my turn is the last turn of the game and I was passing due to having no cards in hand, the card effect should still proc (which it didn't).
I lost the game because of it, since I had a siege row of 5 or 6 lowest allies at 1 power, and the game was really really close. :/
Has anyone else encountered a similar situation, or is it that "game ends before the turn ends if the current turn is the last turn" is just accepted as the convention?
Edit: Sorry guys! I was quite tilted after losing the game, so I came onto the forum for the first time and I immediately created this post under the "gameplay" section, which I later realized should go under "technical". I haven't found a way to delete posts yet (hopefully not just because I am blind at times), so this might just sit here for a while before I find out how to delete posts and repost this to an existing thread under "technical"...
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Thank you!
Just asking out of curiosity though, wouldn't it make more logical sense for the end-of-turn card effects to trigger before the round to end? Since each round of the game consists of multiple turns, and in order for the round to end, all turns have to end first.
Ohhhhhh! Thank you!
That actually makes a lot more sense. However, I still have a question: isn't the turn technically still there when you pass?
For example, I have a Redanian Knight-elect on my ranged row and I passed. If the opponent chooses to continue playing, "my turn" is technically still there and Redanian Knight-elect still boosts adjacent units by 1 on turn end.
So by the same logic, upon passing, the end-of-turn card effect *should* still be triggered, right?
I've put some more thought into the question now.
If I pass and my opponent chooses to continue playing, then "my turn" is there in between my opponent's turns. However, if my opponent has already passed and I pass afterward, since I didn't play any cards, there wasn't technically a "turn" so end-of-turn card effects do not get proc'd.
Is this correct?
I think, it is correct. If your opponent passed and you pass too, that means you end the round and not your turn (technically there is no turn for you, so no "turn end" only "round end")
Look at it like this.... Turn start > play card/pass > turn end. If you pass, it doesn't get to the turn end component unless it rolls around to the other player. So if P1 passes and P2 passes you can consider the P2 play card/pass component as "end round".
In the situation you described the other player had already passed. So it went to turn end for them to turn start for you and into play card/pass for you. Since you passed the round ends and turn end is never reached.
To answer your question, yes. It could be argued it should be turn start > play card/pass > turn end > round end if both players passed.
In the situation you described the other player had already passed. So it went to turn end for them to turn start for you and into play card/pass for you. Since you passed the round ends and turn end is never reached.
To answer your question, yes. It could be argued it should be turn start > play card/pass > turn end > round end if both players passed.
Thank you Restlessdingo32 for your explanation! I was confused about how passing before and after opponent passing can be so different, but I have just figured it out with bojerbela's help.
Passing means giving up on any future opportunity of even getting into my turn. That being said, if I pass before my opponent does, although I have given up the chance to actively play any cards at all, "my turn" has to be in between opponent's turns for the game to work, so all passive effects will still be triggered. On the other hand, when I pass after my opponent passes, the game would then neither go into my turn nor my opponent's turn, so the round finishes without triggering any of my cards' effects.
I think it should be changed to make them proc.
When I started to play Gwent, I was surprised with the fact that cards effect did not proced when you are the last one to pass.
So It is not intuitive to new players and still does not make sense as you get more mature with the game.
When I started to play Gwent, I was surprised with the fact that cards effect did not proced when you are the last one to pass.
So It is not intuitive to new players and still does not make sense as you get more mature with the game.
End of turn triggers do not trigger when you pass second, this is ridiculous because the turn still ends. Dimun Light Longship is the specific example I noticed this on. While this can be played around, its stupid that the phase just gets skipped.
"When" Triggers also fail to happen for example: Farseer 50% of the time fails to boost when another card in hand was boosted by Vrihedd Dragoon on the turn that the Farseer was played. This seems like a bug but why is it even?
"When" Triggers also fail to happen for example: Farseer 50% of the time fails to boost when another card in hand was boosted by Vrihedd Dragoon on the turn that the Farseer was played. This seems like a bug but why is it even?
The Farseer thing is not a bug, it's about positioning your units right and the order that the effects trigger. Order is top row to bottom, left to right. So if the Farseer is on the left of the Dragoon, the Farseer effect will be evaluated first and it won't trigger.
Another example that I already used to explain this is as follows:
Imagine that you have two Vran Warriors on the same timer and a Nekker, positioned like this V V N. The warriors are about to consume on this turn, will the Nekker be consumed? The answer is no. The Vran on the left will consume the one in the middle before he can consume the Nekker.
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Oh my gosh this has been completely confusing to me. I didn't even think about a unit being to the right of farseer triggering after farseer. So simple. Thank you very much for the explanation!
End of turn = start of turn for your opponent
If your opponent won't get their start of turn effects then you won't get your end of turn effects either.
This has to do with positioning, there is an order to end of turn triggers and if you put your Farseer in front of your Dragoon then yes, it won't trigger.
If your opponent won't get their start of turn effects then you won't get your end of turn effects either.
This has to do with positioning, there is an order to end of turn triggers and if you put your Farseer in front of your Dragoon then yes, it won't trigger.