How to narratively bound Sidemissions and the Main Quest

[animalfather]

Yes narratively bound is my new favorite word. So a lot of sidemissions are usually just throw away meaningless fetch quests that add very little to the emerging story and honestly in many cases just take you out of the experience when you choose to do one. I have a solution to this problem. Imagine you hit a wall in the main storyline. You are suppose to hunt someone or something but you don't know what or who. What sidemissions can do is to give you hints in what direction to go in. Eg a sidemission reveals that the person you are looking for likes to party? Next sidemission tells you the man you are looking for has green hair and so on. Now you can use those clues to narrow down your search or keep doing sidemissions until you are certain where to go exactly. Now i used a very primitive example here but this is a good way to weave the sidemissions in with the overall story.

 

[EngryEngineer]

I definitely like the idea of side missions having more connection to the main story. To use writing 101 ideas, rather than a side mission being an aside or foot note treat them like the "supporting sentences" to the main story's "topic sentence." Side missions could be used to inform, explore, or even alter the agendas of the entities we work with in the main plot, while they are usually relegated to either just developing a side line NPC or supply the player with resources of one manner or another.

I would really love to see main story deliver some additional info, like a bread crumb about a tech that multiple corps are chasing. Then on investigation you could find side missions to steal, sabotage, etc this new tech (especially cool if you pull an Armored Core and have multiple side missions which are mutually exclusive, steal thing for A, steal thing for B, protect thing for C, etc), then at some point there is a main story mission which has a version M0 where the player didn't perform any related side missions, version M1 where they did a certain side mission, M2 where they tried but failed in that side mission, etc.

 

[BaalNergal]

I agree, though I do think not all side-missions should be interwoven with the story if the character is a mercenary. Maybe have the option to occasionally take a break from the story, but word it as the MC choosing to take a break from what is going on?

Maybe, even, if they take enough of a break it impacts the main story. I know Pathfinder: Kingmaker did something like this, and I would like to see that mechanic expanded.

 

[EngryEngineer]

I agree, though I do think not all side-missions should be interwoven with the story if the character is a mercenary. Maybe have the option to occasionally take a break from the story, but word it as the MC choosing to take a break from what is going on?

Maybe, even, if they take enough of a break it impacts the main story. I know Pathfinder: Kingmaker did something like this, and I would like to see that mechanic expanded.

Not everything has to be connected, I think I'd prefer it not specify though, but for that to work just talking to the quest giver shouldn't just automatically start the quest but provide the sales pitch and you can decide whether or not to take the job.

 

[Matchst1ckk]

Riddle me this, Batman: if a side quest is to be treated as connected to the main story, is it really a side quest?

This is one of the many reasons I am excited for the game. As with many other aspects of the game, CDPR is trying to break free from the norm and change what we know and how we've played games in the past, with side quests being one of the big examples of this. To me, a side mission is at its barebones defined as a mission non-essential to the plot of the game; the story can be experienced with or without this side mission. I assume most of the time if a side mission is deemed important to the plot, it gets folded into the main story, which leaves all those boring fetch quests in the side missions tab.

My concern has been that narratively binding sidemissions to the main story will then make sidemissions "non-optional"; they will probably feel non-optional to some. What I'm figuring to see that completing side missions will unlock options during the main story, although I too hope that not every side mission has pertinence to the main plot.

 

[Garrison72]

If you were paying attention, they already mastered this in all three of their games. The problem is getting the main quest right.

 

[BaalNergal]

If you were paying attention, they already mastered this in all three of their games. The problem is getting the main quest right.

Can you elucidate for those who didn't play those games, those who don't remember those games too well, and people who just feel like arguing?

 

[Suhiira]

Let me give an example.

You've decided you need to go to the corner store for a pack of gum. (( Main Quest ))
You decide to take your dog along since it needs to be walked anyway. (( Side Mission ))
On the way you stop and let some kids pet your dog, they reward you with smiles and laughter. (( Secondary Quest ))

Neither the 'Side Mission' nor the 'Secondary Quest' are at all related to the 'Main Quest', but both result from how you elected to perform the 'Main Quest'; you walked instead of driving and took your dog.

 

[animalfather]

Not everything has to be connected, I think I'd prefer it not specify though, but for that to work just talking to the quest giver shouldn't just automatically start the quest but provide the sales pitch and you can decide whether or not to take the job.

doesn't need to be directly connected but lets say there are 500 law men coming for you, you going fishing doesn't really fit the overall narrative.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Side missions can be narratively tied to the main story if the main story is broad or ambiguous enough to allow it, that there is no "one path to goal" but that everything you do affects your standing towards the forces at play in one way or another. That even if a mission is to make a brewer happy by fetching him 5 bags of barley, it affects your standing among some group -- the brewers guild might like you more and further your progression in their way, but the bakers guild also wanted the barley and they dislike what you've done; and both have something that pushes you further in the main story.

 

[Dreadpoet]

In theory, I like the sound of side missions tying in with the main story. However, I often want a break from the main story. Doggedly following a single story line may lead to a game that begins to feel linear, a character that feels 2D in their single mindedness, and an experience that begins to focus on finishing the main the game...instead of enjoying the experience that an open world game can provide.

 

[lelxrv]

Yes narratively bound is my new favorite word. So a lot of sidemissions are usually just throw away meaningless fetch quests that add very little to the emerging story and honestly in many cases just take you out of the experience when you choose to do one. I have a solution to this problem. Imagine you hit a wall in the main storyline. You are suppose to hunt someone or something but you don't know what or who. What sidemissions can do is to give you hints in what direction to go in. Eg a sidemission reveals that the person you are looking for likes to party? Next sidemission tells you the man you are looking for has green hair and so on. Now you can use those clues to narrow down your search or keep doing sidemissions until you are certain where to go exactly. Now i used a very primitive example here but this is a good way to weave the sidemissions in with the overall story.

So, in other words, that side-quest becomes a main quest. I don't get it. The only difference is the game doesn't tell which quest to do to continue your main-main quest.

 

[animalfather]

So, in other words, that side-quest becomes a main quest. I don't get it. The only difference is the game doesn't tell which quest to do to continue your main-main quest.

it was just an example that i used. but yes in this case the game doesnt give u a marker on a map you need find where to go on your own and the sidemissions aid u in which direction u should go.

 

[lelxrv]

it was just an example that i used. but yes in this case the game doesnt give u a marker on a map you need find where to go on your own and the sidemissions aid u in which direction u should go.

It's basically the argument about removing quest markers and mini-maps.

 

[animalfather]

It's basically the argument about removing quest markers and mini-maps.

its not but i agree markers on a map ruin the game. assume someone backstabbed you and u want to know who. well the more sidemissions u do u get more clues as who it was. just an example. optional missions that enhance the story. or u could say F you i already know who it was and go forward.

 

[lelxrv]

its not but i agree markers on a map ruin the game. assume someone backstabbed you and u want to know who. well the more sidemissions u do u get more clues as who it was. just an example. optional missions that enhance the story. or u could say F you i already know who it was and go forward.

It is in a sense that you have to wander around till you get lucky.

 

[animalfather]

It is in a sense that you have to wander around till you get lucky.

NOT if you do the sidemissions.

 

[lelxrv]

What I wanted to add. Why do side quests need to be narratively bound to the main quest? My only problem with side quests can stem from their contradiction with the main quest. For example, if your main quest is that you need to reach a person as fast as possible, you shouldn't have infinite time to do side quests, or probably shouldn't do side activity at all. Because so much is at stake. Which is the issue that I have with The Witcher 3 world building. One of the reasons why Fallout 1 was so good from world building perspective. You have urgent stuff to do and you can do whatever you like or need beyond that, regardless of how unrelated it is to your mission.

Other than that, there's zero reason for them to be linked to the main story. You can have ANY motivation to do them - money, reputation, service, tools, experience...

 

[Mybrokenenglish]

To me it's very important that side quests are narratively coherent: in TW3 you are looking for Ciri and you should hurry up, no time for searching the bear school diagrams. It would be perfect as end game activity, but not while you are trying to save the world from the wild hunt. In RDR2 the main quest gives you more relaxed moments when it makes absolutely sense to look for side quests and other moments when it clearly tells you to continue arthur's story. To make it even clearer, it doesn't give you all the quests from the beginning, but they appear when you reach some milestones in the storyline. On the contrary, TW3 gives you some high level quest almost immediately but you know that as a lvl 3 geralt you cannot complete a lvl 35 quest. E.g. some hunts and in particular hattori's quest: you meet him, he asks for help and then he goes to the docks and wait for you. You just arrived to Novigrad, you are most likely something around lvl 10 with geralt, you open the menù to follow the mission and realize that it's a lvl 30+ quest. And then it's when hattori will wait for you there till you almost complete the game, something like 30 hours later. Consequently, immersion is gone for good.

 

[helios969]

It's a nice sentiment but it would probably only serve to frustrate the majority of the playerbase. The only way I could see it working is if all paths herd the PC toward the end goal, which would require a whole lot more development time. Think an inverted ancestry chart of smaller stories contributing to the larger one and in which the PC can move freely. As a gamer I'd love this but recognize this would be a nightmare to the devs.