Inventory

[vongo.859]

Inventory

Let's talk inventory! I've seen mention of the topic in unrelated threads, but I haven't seen any inventory-dedicated threads. There were some interesting ideas in the "Being Visibly Armed, Holsters, and Trunks" thread, but I think it would be fair to start a new, fresh discussion.

Would you like a weight-based approach? Item-size approach? Combination of the two, or something else entirely?

I can't say I know for sure what I would like at this point, but anything that discourages mass-looting and re-selling would be a good start.

 

[Sardukhar]

I can't say I know for sure what I would like at this point, but anything that discourages mass-looting and re-selling would be a good start.

Yes, this would be an admirable goal. I like looting, but yi, autograbbing everything just feels so game-y.

 

[blank_redge]

I like the idea of implementing both an item-sized approach (you can only fit so much crap in a duffel,) and a weight-based approach (realistically, you can only carry around so much.)

As far as the weight-based approach, I'd like it to be a sliding scale, rather than the Fallout model (ZERO encumbrance at 300 lbs, CRAWLING speed at 301.)

 

[Suhiira]

I'd say primarily a weight based system, with cumulative encumbrance.
Your characters strength determines the maximum amount you can carry, at 25% or less it's a non issue, 26-50% you get a reduction is movement speed, 51-75% both movement AND reaction speed are effected, 76-90% we're talking significant penalties here, 91-100% you can still move ... barely.

Item size is always a tricky issue. You either restrict it semi-arbitrarily (you may carry a max of two "rifle" size weapons) or you play inventory Tetras (and I personally HATE those systems). But I'd be more then happy with a reasonable semi-arbitrary system combines with the weight system mentioned above.

Chances are everyone here can lift a mattress, but can you do anything but carry it once you have?

 

[blank_redge]

To avoid "inventory Tetris," as you put it, as an alternative, I could see each item as taking up ( x ) amount of spaces in the total given volume of the container in question.

I like your proposition of gradient encumbrance. Looks about right to me.

 

[Suhiira]

I like your proposition of gradient encumbrance. Looks about right to me.

Thanks!
I am a tad biased toward it, it's the one I use in the PnP games I run :geek:
Fairly simple and effective.

 

[matsif]

my preference is for just size limitations rather than weight being involved at all, mainly because I have yet to play a game where weight did anything but have no penalties until the arbitrary limit, and then suddenly you can barely move. Maybe a gradient system would be nicer, but I'd rather just see a size-based inventory that bases the total size off of your clothing and potentially body mods (subdermal pocket). Mix that with some items that simply must be separately carried/worn because they don't fit in an inventory, so like if you want to carry a sniper rifle you have to "wear" it on a sling, not in your backpack that it obviously wouldn't fit in.

There's some happy medium somewhere for everyone but imo it's not in how a weight system works, it's in how many spots you get and how many of the same item you can stack in 1 inventory slot. Weight systems to me only cater to those who want super-realism, which while some realism is nice I personally play games to unplug from reality and I don't want to have to worry about throwing my back in game.

 

[Calistarius]

I like size based inventory, weight based inventory, and a combination of the two as well. I don't mind to much systems that use neither of them, and either goes for a item amount cap, or unlimited amount... but if I got to choice it would be size+weight.

But no matter what kind of inventory system is used, I will still do everything I can to make sure I can take as much loot with me at any given time, and I WILL go back for the rest if it is possible... and even if we are only talking about a handful of cheap stuff. XD

Anyway... so far, the system I have liked the most is in a series of Russian games where all of them goes by a lot of different names... but Brigade E[incert number 5, 6, 7, or 8, or maybe even 9] is a name that all the game to one extent or another all share, either officially or inoffiially, only the number changes obviously. Although... not all of the games are easy to find under the "Brigade E" name either... 5-7 is, but after that it's not as easy, and I do not remember at this time what their actual name was. Some of the games do not even officially have English versions (especially the 7+ ones), but do have unofficial mod translations to English. Not sure if they are easy to get a hold of though.

It is a somewhat complex system that uses a combination between weight based (where the effect of carrying to much gradually goes up, so no decrease from 0 right up to 50% or something by reaching a "limit" or something), and size based (numbers of squares) where the size of item will matter a lot if it can fit in certain areas or not, with some areas not able to take certain items at all (Equipment slots can only take one kind of item type, where as most Item/Carry slots can take most kinds with some exceptions), and a few slots where size of item does not matter at all. No item that gives you more space can be put inside another thing that also gives more space. Only the Belt+Pouches combo has something like that. Your hands (only one big slot, so no dual wielding) can carry anything. One of the shoulders can only carry weapons that are submachineguns and larget, the other shoulder is the same but can carry a set of armor instead (does not give any defence though), and your Neck is the same as the first shoulder but can also carry a Belt instead (which can have items in it, which can only be accessed by putting it in the Belt slot). Also, most of your inventory is not there from the start either, you need to equip certain things first to get more space to use (Vest, Belt, Backpack, and 0-2 Pouches which can only be put on your Belt if you have one).

Basicly, it is the most realistic weight+size based inventory system I have ever seen so far.

Not to mention that all of those games are some of the most realistic, realtime with pause, timebased (everything you do takes X amount of time to do, where tenth or even hundreds of a second can make a huge difference), teambased, tactical combat simulation, RPG, game, that I have ever played actually.

They go so far as to take into account things like level of adrenalin, injuries, how much weight is carried, what kind of weapon the character is using, being shot at, being hit (with or without actual damage), suppression, etc, into how well your character is able to perform during combat. Adrenalin for example: if you characters adrenalin goes up then your characters "to hit" chance goes down, BUT your characters speed to shot their weapon becomes quicker. Reasons why adrenalin cango up in the game varies, if they see an enemy it can start moving, go around a corner and find loads of enemies infront of you and it might shoot through the roof, getting fired upon, near misses, getting hit, etc, will make your adrenalin going in the game. If your character is wearing a backpack, they are unable to roll when being prone. Your character can bleed to death, get temporarily blinded, temporarily deafened (yes hearing does have an actual effect in the game), get knocked uncontious, outright killed with a single shot if unlucky, and probably some other things I am forgeting at this moment.

UFO/XCOM, old Fallout games, Balders Gate, Neverwinter Nights, and most other other such games, turn-based or otherwise, are simple compared to these games really. So if a person think any of the games I mentioned are way to complicated for them, or to detailed and time consuming and to micromanagy... then the Brigade E5-8/9 is most certainly not for you. XD

I would recommend E5 and E6 though. You can find both on Steam... Search for "Brigade E5", and E6 should show up as well (it's usually recognized by it having 7.62 in the title)... and there are some pretty comprehensible and good mods available for both of them online (Blue Sun Mod for E6 for example... do not recall the mod names for E5).

 

[thewarsend]

I am really having mixed feelings about inventory and looting system thing.

On one hand, I want a looting system like Fallout games gave, you should be able to loot and wear anything anyone wears. (And if you take someones clothes, they should become naked) Without exception.

On the other hand I want looting and inventory system to be extremely detailed without taking over the game. If it becomes so detailed that it takes lots of time, it will start being boring after a while.. But I am sure that wont be a problem..

Also, I want to have other means of collecting someones weapon or jacket.. (other than killing the said NPC for instance) Like you could talk to them and by using a speech or authority check to take their gear.. (This should be extremely difficult, but it should be there, like it was on the PnP game)

This makes me wish to open up a topic just for that..

 

[blank_redge]

I am really having mixed feelings about inventory and looting system thing.

On one hand, I want a looting system like Fallout games gave, you should be able to loot and wear anything anyone wears. (And if you take someones clothes, they should become naked) Without exception.

On the other hand I want looting and inventory system to be extremely detailed without taking over the game.

I want looting to happen in real-time.

Say you just put down the local Boostergang boss, and you fancy their cryochill leather trenchcoat. You're in the middle of peeling it off the donor's body, when who should roll by but NCPD...

 

[thewarsend]

I want looting to happen in real-time.

Say you just put down the local Boostergang boss, and you fancy their cryochill leather trenchcoat. You're in the middle of peeling it off the donor's body, when who should roll by but NCPD...

Thats true, but still, if it takes too much time like suggested, it be too annoying over time.. They need to make it just right, which is near impossible since you can't please everyone.

 

[Sardukhar]

Suuure..but looting someone DOES take time.

I'd prefer killing people to be relatively rare, so that the six seconds spent looting, ( should probably be you flipping the body and pullingoff his gear, more like a minute), isn't really taxing.

If you're killing somany things, like say Fallout NV, that it gets annoying to loot, the game has gone a leeeetle too FPS for my liking.

If you're in THAT kind of trouble, looting is not gonna be real high on your list. More like, "Grab the best gun you see on the ground and start running!"

 

[Suhiira]

Yeah, as much as it's a tad annoying to kill stuff in games and get nada for loot it's FAR worse to get piles of junk you need to collect/transport/sell because if you don't you have almost no game money. Looting should be a reward not a chore.

 

[thewarsend]

Yeah, as much as it's a tad annoying to kill stuff in games and get nada for loot it's FAR worse to get piles of junk you need to collect/transport/sell because if you don't you have almost no game money. Looting should be a reward not a chore.

I agree with this.. Looting should be a chore and it should a reward in itself. For instance, I hate looting missions.. (bring me 50 of this, collect 20 of that) But looting everything you want should be in the game.. If I see someone wearing an outfit or holding a pistol, I want to be able to take and use that just like I was able to do it in the PnP game.. (I also want to have thousands of different outfit styles. No two enemy should wear same thing unless it is a uniform or something. This could be accomplished by creating lets say about 20 different bumpmaps for every outfit&armor and making every single one of them tintable) Also, things you loot should be damaged depending on where you shoot the enemy.. If you shoot someones arm off, that armor you collect should not have an arm.. (but you should be able to replace that arm with another armors&outfits arm, this could be done by making every mesh in small pieces, with enough skill, you should be able to remove the damaged arm from the damaged armor, remove an arm from the undamaged armor and attach that arm into the damaged armor to make it.... not damaged anymore.... And that arm on the new-not-so-damaged-anymore armor should look like the arm you just disassembled. Does that make sense? This way, even if you don't need the armor you have just looted, you could use it as spare parts..)



And, it is nice to be able to take items from your enemies, checking if they have better stuff than you already have.. This shouldn't be made too hard for the players.. It should have a nice balance to it..

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

I like inventories where both weight and volume are checked. It poses an interesting little dilemma if you - for example - found the most cool weapon or gadget in the game and you have the strength to carry it, but your pockets and backpack are so full of smaller clutter that you don't have the space. What to drop, and is it really worth it. It puts a little bit of thought in looting too, what to pick up and what to leave. A sack full of money and drugs might not weight much at all, but it sure takes the space; while gold bullions don't take much space but weigh a lot.

And I don't really mind "inventory tetris". It's not a chore unless the inventory is huge and needs constant scrolling; also it should be easy enough to have a toggle for auto sorting the items in the inventory to maximize empty space.

 

[Lunaphase]

Frankly i agree with you guys. I want to see it done with intellect in mind, not fallout style "400 lbs of pure weapons!"

However, i would like to see a way to mitigate this. For example, say you just took out a gang of thugs but obviously cant carry all their crap. You should be able to back your truck up and toss the gear in the trunk to sell later.

That or backpacks/duffel bags with large inventory space but also physically carried. benefit of a backpack is less inventory space than a duffel, but good storage for stuff you dont need immediate acess to.

Benefit of a duffel in your hands would be that one can instantly drop it if needed and either abandon it or open it up to pull out somthing normally too big to hide.

My highest desire though is to SEE the stuff you carry physically represented. If i am carrying an armory i want to look it. And i want npc's to react to how rediculous it is.

My personal goal in this game is to have an FBC civilian type with some tool kit storage built in, decent clothing, and a backpack of party tricks and other things that make people's lives interesting.

I really dont want to resort to needing a mod to use common sense items on my person.

 

[JeromAsdert]

I agree with Kofeiiniturpa, I like the way weight is used in Dark Souls, but it should be applied to all of your gear not just equipped one obviously. The more you have the harder it is to get around dragging it all with you while having it it be affected with your carry methods and personal stats. On top of that I like the idea of general volume of the items rather than specific shape (tetris), for mattress example, it would take 80-90% of volume while light on actual weight.

Most of the survival games already introduced "looting/searching" timer so that you can just "E" the body and instantly run off. On top of that having the time still go on while in the "inventory" screen is a good idea. You want to check out your bags, get somewhere where you can do it safely.

 

[Dr. LaBrat]

Would you like a weight-based approach?

pls no
total fun killer for me

the inventory in witcher 1 + 2 was terrible btw

i'm all for a grid based system like the original deus ex or resident evil 4

 

[Sardukhar]

Hmmm.

People are pretty divided along the grid-based/weight based spectrum. How hard would it be to offer the playyer the choice at the start of the game? Could you flag each object with two variables - grid space and weight, then have the game use one of the two depending on which the player chose?

 

[Suhiira]

Hmmm.

People are pretty divided along the grid-based/weight based spectrum. How hard would it be to offer the playyer the choice at the start of the game? Could you flag each object with two variables - grid space and weight, then have the game use one of the two depending on which the player chose?

Could be done, but you'd have to fully develop both systems. Is it worth the cost and development time to do so?