Judy romance update/expansion/DLC.

[Cheekoo13]

I've posted this elsewhere, but I think it bears repeating here, in regards to a continuation DLC... So spoilers below, obviously.

Spoiler

Some people have the thought that we can't have an Arizona DLC, because only Star is going to Arizona, and while we can all agree it's the only ending may as well be in the game for us, this does screw three of the four endings.

In the same vein, you have people calling for a crystal palace DLC, or for more work with Arasaka post devil (as Hanako promises). Because of this, people are saying you can't have a continuation DLC, because it would be far too much work, and they are right. Three separate DLCs for each ending is far too much.

The way forward is simple. The continuation DLC should not take place in Arizona, or Crystal Palace. Instead, the continuation DLC should launch differently for each ending. The first quest chain for Star, for example, would have you chasing down leads in Arizona which would then lead to location X. Likewise, the first quest-chain for Sun would have you rampaging across Crystal Palace for what Blue Eyes wants, afterwards he points you to location X as a reward. Hanako could also very easily point you in the right direction after her big job, for the more devil orientated among us.

Each ending would shape the DLC in different way: Sun likely has the backing of Afterlife, connections and Blue Eyes; Devil has fucking Arasaka backing them; and we get what we want: the Aldecaldos, Panam and, last but certainly not least, Judy.

That's how the game should proceed imo. We can all agree that the cliffhanger they present us is unsatisfying, especially at what should be a peak in the V/Judy relationship. If the story carried on or was guarenteed to carry on we would have absolutely no issues, but the fact remains that it is still possible that we don't get this mandatory DLC, which IMO would ruin the game for me. This is why this DLC is so crucial, even if we don't get any more main-game Judy content leading up to it.

Side note: As for Temperance or the "other" ending. Temperance is super tricky, because it's the only ending where Johnny is still around. I welcome CDPR to try and solve that, but between the radical change in story and requiring Keanu to significantly reprise his role, I can see it as being difficult. On the other hand, the Easy Way Out ending doesn't leave much to the imagination, as really is a non-ending.

This looks like only possible way, like we had 3 lifepaths but later all got converged, there is a good chance that some of the endings can be seen as canon and they later get converged.

Spoiler

Like you said we can end up in arizona whether we go directly or mr blue eyes would send us.
Or maybe next dlc might lead us to crystal palace whether blue eyes send us or the people who panam knew would send us to mr. Blue eyes as our case is complicated.
(Maybe CDPR will surprise us with something)

And talking about Judy, I think we might see her more involved in some of the story as we said she can be our T-bug. Personal views only-

Spoiler

1. She cant be removed from the Star ending, even though you play as male V and get star ending, it will not be justice to send her away to generalise and converge the story. Bcos it is a peak relationship moment between jude and female v.
2. If she is in star ending, then I don't think they will create whole different branch of dlc just to accomodate female v romance with Judy's animation. She might come to help her friend male V.

They might give some extra different dialogue options for both judy and panam related romance, but for serious stuff they will be there.

Although I wonder what Kerry and River can bring too, we aren't talking about them but they might have some role.

P.S:- Temperance ending feels like got a closure, our friend got more stable and lost his fire that was inside him. A total personality change.

 

[rexxgta]

Although I wonder what Kerry and River can bring too

I actually liked River's quest. Would be good if the added onto to him as well.

 

[Zaccarato]

This looks like only possible way, like we had 3 lifepaths but later all got converged, there is a good chance that some of the endings can be seen as canon and they later get converged.

Spoiler

Like you said we can end up in arizona whether we go directly or mr blue eyes would send us.
Or maybe next dlc might lead us to crystal palace whether blue eyes send us or the people who panam knew would send us to mr. Blue eyes as our case is complicated.
(Maybe CDPR will surprise us with something)

And talking about Judy, I think we might see her more involved in some of the story as we said she can be our T-bug. Personal views only-

Spoiler

1. She cant be removed from the Star ending, even though you play as male V and get star ending, it will not be justice to send her away to generalise and converge the story. Bcos it is a peak relationship moment between jude and female v.
2. If she is in star ending, then I don't think they will create whole different branch of dlc just to accomodate female v romance with Judy's animation. She might come to help her friend male V.

They might give some extra different dialogue options for both judy and panam related romance, but for serious stuff they will be there.

Although I wonder what Kerry and River can bring too, we aren't talking about them but they might have some role.

P.S:- Temperance ending feels like got a closure, our friend became more subtle and lost his fire that was inside him.

Good points. As you say, convergence is the only way forward with a continuation DLC.

So my understanding for a non-romanced Judy is that she moves to Oregon, or at least away from night city. If you don't do her jobs she stays, but honestly that can be retconned. Suppose it's possible that she could show up, but it would be a bit of an ass-pull, especially, like I said, if you didn't do her side-jobs.

Considering that she would ONLY show up if you romanced her as fem V, and that she probably is the most popular character in the game (besides Panam), which would mean it's not wasted content, you would technically only need one dialogue set for her (romanced femV) which would really smooth the amount of work needed, and quite frankly she could just serve as a replacement/addition to Panam for some of the DLC missions.

 

[Cheekoo13]

Good points. As you say, convergence is the only way forward with a continuation DLC.

So my understanding for a non-romanced Judy is that she moves to Oregon, or at least away from night city. If you don't do her jobs she stays, but honestly that can be retconned. Suppose it's possible that she could show up, but it would be a bit of an ass-pull, especially, like I said, if you didn't do her side-jobs.

Considering that she would ONLY show up if you romanced her as fem V, and that she probably is the most popular character in the game (besides Panam), which would mean it's not wasted content, you would technically only need one dialogue set for her (romanced femV) which would really smooth the amount of work needed, and quite frankly she could just serve as a replacement/addition to Panam for some of the DLC missions.

Lets see how it turns out, at this point I just want them to be included in dlc not just as guest appearance but having some role to play.

Also another thing to point out, here we are talking about cdpr, we may be constructing theories based on info and logic we have, but they are very much capable of surprising us.

Spoiler

If they haven't revealed in their trailer, then fate of Jackie would have been considered as biggest plot twist in gaming history
(Also they brought djinn in TW3 to give players choice by overruling the wish).

I just want more Judy content without anything dark stuff happening in it. She has already suffered a lot.

 

[Zaccarato]

Lets see how it turns out, at this point I just want them to be included in dlc not just as guest appearance but having some role to play.

Also another thing to point out, here we are talking about cdpr, we may be constructing theories based on info and logic we have, but they are very much capable of surprising us.

Spoiler

If they haven't revealed in their trailer, then fate of Jackie would have been considered as biggest plot twist in gaming history
(Also they brought djinn in TW3 to give players choice by overruling the wish).

I just want more Judy content without anything dark stuff happening in it. She has already suffered a lot.

It's fun to theorise. If there is a continuation DLC, there is no way Judy and Panam do not feature in all routes, even as cameos. And they will heavily be involved in Star, because they kinda have to be. That's even before we get onto their overwhelmingly positive reception.

Also I completely share your sentiments on Judy. For our conversation I had to look at the ending credit dialogue for Judy to see where she ends up if you don't do her missions (only ever done Male Star/Female Star). I knew the "easy way out" message was bad but fuuuuck me. Temperance+Call was even more of a fucking gut-punch.

 

[OG_VELI]

And talking about Judy, I think we might see her more involved in some of the story as we said she can be our T-bug. Personal views only-
1. She cant be removed from the Star ending, even though you play as male V and get star ending, it will not be justice to send her away to generalise and converge the story. Bcos it is a peak relationship moment between jude and female v.

This is difficult to address because there need to be some consequences for your choices. Male V - Panam, Female V - Judy, simple as that. Some people already say that nothing you do matters, and although I disagree, I don't want that to become even closer to reality.

As much as I love Judy, making her come with a male V in the Star ending is instantly bullshit in my eyes. I'm sorry, but it doesn't make sense from her perspective. Even if they can make it work, it's just retconning everything that we have up until now if you play as male V, or just don't romance her as female. And what if you didn't do her questline at all? What then? It becomes a major plot hole.

The writers at CDPR need to come up with a great way to compile this whole mess with some of the endings and make a continuation. Anything else than a continuation with V and their love interest is a big slap in the face.

 

[Zaccarato]

This is difficult to address because there need to be some consequences for your choices. Male V - Panam, Female V - Judy, simple as that. Some people already say that nothing that you do matters, and although I disagree, I don't want that to become even closer to reality.

As much as I love Judy, making her come with a male V in the Star ending is instantly bullshit in my eyes. I'm sorry, but it doesn't make sense from her perspective. Even if they can make it work, it's just retconning everything that we have up until now if you play as male V, or just don't romance her as female. And what if you didn't do her questline at all? What then? It becomes a major plot hole.

The writers at CDPR need to come up with a great way to compile this whole mess with some of the endings and make a continuation. Anything else than a continuation with V and their love interest is a big slap in the face.

I think the intent was to re-introduce Judy in the maleV/non-romanced Star ending as part of the DLC, not for her to come with V initially. It kinda makes sense, because if you've done her quest-line, she has moved away from night city. It is feesable, albiet an ass-pull, to introduce her to the Aldecaldos and have a maleV vouch for her.

I think the Male V - Panam, Female V - Judy, isn't necessarily a problem with no choice, it's a problem with the fact that there are only four romances in the game, and two of them, quite frankly, suck.

Though you are right, not doing Judy's quest-line becomes an issue, because she is:

A.) Nowhere near as close to V as if you had, both male and female
B.) Hasn't left night city
C.) Probably a little bit pissed you never showed up during two sides now.

In that case, the only reasonable choice is for her to not show up. This doesn't mean her presence can't be significant in the cases that she does show up, however.

 

[OG_VELI]

I think the intent was to re-introduce Judy in the maleV/non-romanced Star ending as part of the DLC, not for her to come with V initially. It kinda makes sense, because if you've done her quest-line, she has moved away from night city. It is feesable, albiet an ass-pull, to introduce her to the Aldecaldos and have a maleV vouch for her.

I think the Male V - Panam, Female V - Judy, isn't necessarily a problem with no choice, it's a problem with the fact that there are only four romances in the game, and two of them, quite frankly, suck.

Yes, re-introducing Judy later on is the way to go, no denying that. Introducing her to the Aldecaldos during the Star ending is the problem I have. During Pyramid Song, you would need to propose her a reason to stay, without even knowing what your ending path will be, which is just, what? V can't really see their rooftop options just yet, you know? And it's not like they are willing to add something like "Hey Judy, listen. I'm leaving the city with the Nomads after Mikoshi, wanna come?" as a dialogue option here.

As for the other romances, honestly, I just don't care? I know they need more screen time, that is a must, but the way they are handled now, they done goofed with them and the Aldecaldos ending. And the most important part is that they have no reason to leave the city in the first place.

 

[WildOrchid]

As for the other romances, honestly, I just don't care? I know they need more screen time, that is a must, but the way they are handled now, they done goofed with them and the Aldecaldos ending. And the most important part is that they have no reason to leave the city in the first place.

They could find a way kinda like they did with the paths at the start. Depending on the ending you chose, you could start from there and it leads to the same missions afterwards. Basically how the main story goes, just different start.

 

[DRaptor-1]

Yes, re-introducing Judy later on is the way to go, no denying that. Introducing her to the Aldecaldos is the problem I have. You would need to propose her a reason to stay, without even knowing what your ending path will be, which is just, what? V can't really see his rooftop options just yet, you know? And it's not like they are willing to add something like "Hey Judy, listen. I'm leaving the city with the Nomads after Mikoshi, wanna come?" dialogue option in Pyramid Song.

As for the other romances, honestly, I just don't care? I know they need more screen time, that is a must, but the way they are handled now, they done goofed with them and the Aldecaldos ending. And the most important part is that they have no reason to leave the city in the first place.

Well, adding Judy after the end of the game, in a future story continuation, is quite possible and easy.
In star ending, if you are female she already come with you. (if romance)
If you are Male V, when she leaves the city and go on Oregon (if I'm not wrong), they can just find a way to let them meet, simple as Judy calling V and decide to meet her friend. If you play the game bonding with her, she will have a reason to come and meet you, and why not, maybe we can ask her to stay with us? If I'm not wrong, she went to her grand parents. I won't her to be sad, but if happens that they die, she will be alone. We are her friends, we can help her and give her a new family with Aldecaldos.

If you did the sun ending, we stay on NC. Saying the same thing of before (also if there are other ways, but just to give the idea), her grandparents die, and she seeks comfort from the only friend (sadly) that remains to her.
Or simply she takes a few days to go find his friend/loved one on NC.

Otherwise if you played the game as a pure d*ckhead, not bothering about her, you won't be able to meet or call her and that's over.
That's what "your choices matter" means imo.
Then from this they will create a bigger story.

Then, there are alot of ideas and good ways to merge this and make an awesome story, CDPR is for sure able to make this.

 

[cirrona]

It's possible for them to canonize one or two endings though. They did that with The Witcher 3 where one of the endings literally made no sense at all (you know, the one

Spoiler

where Geralt dies.)

with the last DLC. If they could've done it out there then they surely can do it here. There are ways of making it work and for V&Judy's bromance/romance to continue post-game. If anything, them leaving the city is a perfect opporturnity to experience more of Cyberpunk's world OUTSIDE the most popular city. See how it is elsewhere. Better? Worse? The same?

 

[EuphoricM]

Well, adding Judy after the end of the game, in a future story continuation, is quite possible and easy.
In star ending, if you are female she already come with you. (if romance)
If you are Male V, when she leaves the city and go on Oregon (if I'm not wrong), they can just find a way to let them meet, simple as Judy calling V and decide to meet her friend. If you play the game bonding with her, she will have a reason to come and meet you, and why not, maybe we can ask her to stay with us? If I'm not wrong, she went to her grand parents. I won't her to be sad, but if happens that they die, she will be alone. We are her friends, we can help her and give her a new family with Aldecaldos.

Actually , you're very right. As a writer you can come up with a lots of crazy devices that can make sense in order to accommodate an unreasonable situation.

The writers at CDPR need to come up with a great way to compile this whole mess with some of the endings and make a continuation. Anything else than a continuation with V and their love interest is a big slap in the face.

It's up to CDPR's writing team to come up with a clever way to do it, with this I agree with you @OG_VELI. I want to add that I don't see it as THAT impossible, after all, we know very little of what their intend with the story is.

Let me give you an example

Imagine an expansion that triggers after ending the game. We talk about the Depressing/Marauder Shields/6 months. You go to a tank or something to trigger the beginning of the new exp. There's a message telling you you'll start [REDACTED] expansion, you press ok, you see a last cutscene from the "original" game. Then a black screen with only the message:

6 months later ....

Your V is suddenly thrown in the middle a of a car chase in a road you don't recognize, you're alone, you're alive (obviously), and you have to finish the whole god damm first mission without a clue of whats going on because everything is shooting at you. The rest of the expansion slowly introduces the reasons why you were in that situation, where is Judy now?, how to continue your relationship, where's Panam?, why is Panam doing XYZ?, why is she no longer XYZ?, why are you still alive?, why can we romance Wakako?, etc. Hell they can even jump back a couple of months from time to time.

They successfully created a blank slate to work on the story again (also making leeway for them to tie together most of the endings)

This is not necessarily my cup of tea but it illustrates the point I hope.

 

[OG_VELI]

Actually , you're very right. As a writer you can come up with a lots of crazy devices that can make sense in order to accommodate an unreasonable situation.



It's up to CDPR's writing team to come up with a clever way to do it, with this I agree with you @OG_VELI. I want to add that I don't see it as THAT impossible, after all, we know very little of what their intend with the story is.

Let me give you an example

Imagine an expansion that triggers after ending the game. We talk about the Depressing/Marauder Shields/6 months. You go to a tank or something to trigger the beginning of the new exp. There's a message telling you you'll start [REDACTED] expansion, you press ok, you see a last cutscene from the "original" game. Then a black screen with only the message:

6 months later ....

Your V is suddenly thrown in the middle a of a car chase in a road you don't recognize, you're alone, you're alive (obviously), and you have to finish the whole god damm first mission without a clue of whats going on because everything is shooting at you. The rest of the expansion slowly introduces the reasons why you were in that situation, where is Judy now?, how to continue your relationship, where's Panam?, why is Panam doing XYZ?, why is she no longer XYZ?, why are you still alive?, why can we romance Wakako?, etc. Hell they can even jump back a couple of months from time to time.

They successfully created a blank slate to work on the story again (also making leeway for them to tie together most of the endings)

This is not necessarily my cup of tea but it illustrates the point I hope.

The possibilities are endless when it comes to the writers, that's for sure. But as long as wherever we go has Judy/Panam and most importantly V surviving - I'm gonna die a happy man.

 

[EuphoricM]

The possibilities are endless when it comes to the writers, that's for sure. But as long as wherever we go has Judy/Panam and most importantly V surviving - I'm gonna die a happy man.

I'm with you there bud, the struggle/wait is real!

 

[dreambled]

Art by Lesly Oh on Twitter

 

[Eklektyzm]

The possibilities are endless when it comes to the writers, that's for sure. But as long as wherever we go has Judy/Panam and most importantly V surviving - I'm gonna die a happy man.

Honestly, there are lot of possibilities. They can make one ending canon, or make current endings new lifepaths in expansions which eventually will merge into one questline. The choice is theirs. I will be happy as long as we will be able to save ourselves and our loved ones, just how it meant to be.

 

[DRaptor-1]

Honestly, there are lot of possibilities. They can make one ending canon, or make current endings new lifepaths in expansions which eventually will merge into one questline. The choice is theirs. I will be happy as long as we will be able to save ourselves and our loved ones, just how it meant to be.

I think make new lifepaths that will all merge in the main story in the DLC is the most reasonable thing, instead of doing a canon ending.
This because the players can play the game how they want, and not everyone will have the same outcome, and this can result in a kinda odd and unwanted situation for most of the players, imo.

 

[Eklektyzm]

I think make new lifepaths that will all merge in the main story in the DLC is the most reasonable thing, instead of doing a canon ending.
This because the players can play the game how they want, and not everyone will have the same outcome, and this can result in a kinda odd and unwanted situation for most of the players, imo.

I agree with you, making current endings new lifepaths in future continuation is best possible idea. It wouldn't make the only choice with consequences in the game feel unimportant, while we could finally get more expanded lifepaths that will last more than 15 minutes like in basic game. What I meant in my post, was that as long as future expansion is going to be continuation of V story, where the assumption of the whole game that we can only save ourselves and our loved ones will be fulfilled, then we will be fine. No matter how they will approach the continuation, I believe that it will be great, CDPR writers have shown their quality. My only concern is that they may release some kind of spin offs DLCs or just mid game side story, which I really don't want. What is really needed here is closure of V story, where against all odds and the whole brutality of Cyberpunk world, we still can survive and save our loved ones. We all got attached to these characters, they really deserve more screen time in expansions while also getting good ending.

 

[Vitalurg]

I agree with you, making current endings new lifepaths in future continuation is best possible idea. It wouldn't make the only choice with consequences in the game feel unimportant, while we could finally get more expanded lifepaths that will last more than 15 minutes like in basic game. What I meant in my post, was that as long as future expansion is going to be continuation of V story, where the assumption of the whole game that we can only save ourselves and our loved ones will be fulfilled, then we will be fine. No matter how they will approach the continuation, I believe that it will be great, CDPR writers have shown their quality. My only concern is that they may release some kind of spin offs DLCs or just mid game side story, which I really don't want. What is really needed here is closure of V story, where against all odds and the whole brutality of Cyberpunk world, we still can survive and save our loved ones. We all got attached to these characters, they really deserve more screen time in expansions while also getting good ending.

Unless you are alive and breath, there is always hope. Misty’s tarot cards tell V about it. Panam tells that V mustn’t give up and she will help V. Mitch confirms that V is family part so they will do everything for him/her no matter how high the price will be. No reasons to reject Star ending for me.

 

[Eklektyzm]

Unless you are alive and breath, there is always hope. Misty’s tarot cards tell V about it. Panam tells that V mustn’t give up and she will help V. Mitch confirms that V is family part so they will do everything for him/her no matter how high the price will be. No reasons to reject Star ending for me.

Also Johnny in his last words told us to never stop fighting, there is no way we are going to die in next six months. I just hope it won't be left to our headcanon and we will be able to see that alive V with Judy/Panam/Kerry/River ending.