I am a HUGE fan of the new hacking, I have the feeling my net runner build is far more deadly than every before. It's all about the combo hacks and BOOM... they are all dead
The problem is not combat netrunning. It's clear that the archetype intended by CDPR was a combat focused build with quickhacks as support tools.
The problem is that stealth netrunning, where you don't get caught and don't enter combat, is not possible anymore because of the dumb tracing gimmick, the lack of breach protocol and the insane RAM cost of quickhacks. The update removed build variety.
Which I personally find to be a shame. Let's just hope that CDPR adds a few extra perks to that tree that slow down the tracing and further reduce the traceability. There is room for 2 perk nodes right at the perks "Queue Acceleration" and "Overclock".
Something like "Encryption Overclocked" would fit right in, like "Slows down the tracing progress by 30%. Slows down tracing progress by 80% instead while Overclock is active".
Or "Queue Backdoor": "Reduce traceability of Quick Hacks by 50% if uploaded as part of a Queue of 2, bonus increases to 80% if the Queue is 3 or longer".
So in theory there are ways to further support the silent playstyle. I don't think it would "fix" it, but there are ways to help it.
I did play around with guns and emptying a staminabar when you shoot an SMG? Thats nonsense. It harms my suspension of disbelief above all since I know for a fact that shooting a (real) gun doesnt exhaust you.
I dont like levelscaling. Didnt even know that would be part of the update. One of the fun things at the end of the game is to go back to the starter area and stomp easier enemies that were hard at the beginning of the game. Its how you feel the progress of your character. If all enemies, even the starter enemies are still hard to take down, then you are nothing special. By the time you are level 50, you've done three quarters of the gigs anyways, so why its still necessary at that point is beyond me.
Previously netrunning was too OP, "haxx0r FTW" kind of affair. Spamming hacks to see people(and later groups of people) magically go. Meh.
Now if I plan a stealthy attempt I REALLY need to plan. I even manually save just in case shit hits the fan. I have to hack cameras, mark enemies, use the environment to distract them and be ready to GTFO if an enemy netrunner catches me with my pants down.
Also, it's still possible to use silenced pistols, you - again - need to be careful and deliberate. Even if you need 2-3 headshots now - you can still pull off a stealthy kill, but the enemy needs to be isolated so noone hears him shouting before you end him. It really adds to the tension one should feel when playing as a stealthy netrunning ninja.
Given that I did this update at level 40, I must tell you that already after a day of playing, I fixed a build (20 strength, 20 technique and soon 20 intelligence) with adrenaline and overclock and a cyberware with 233 capacity and 728 of armor. Well I tell you that although the game is more difficult and fun, I broke it again. I can easily massacre hordes of enemies and even bosses, but honestly now I find it much more fun, before it was a bit boring. In my opinion the game still needs to be improved in terms of movement mechanics and realism of vehicle damage. And then the new weapons are really broken, I massacre enemies through walls and they literally can't do anything to me. Stealth is still possible with integumentary optical camouflage and with overclocking you can massacre enemies by restarting them or using the combo amnesia + optics restart + sonic shock (in combo).
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However, there are some bugs that I need to report:
-optical camouflage often fails and they even see you through walls (amnesia doesn't even work well);
-if you remove the bodies they still identify them where they were;
- sometimes you spend 28 of RAM to collapse the system and the collapse doesn't happen;
it's fine to nerf stealth but bugging it like this is not correct or fun.
Guys, do remember that they didn't 'bug' the game or put the bugs in on purpose. Bugs happen to every game these days. This is why it's important to report them so they can iron them out.
The problem is not combat netrunning. It's clear that the archetype intended by CDPR was a combat focused build with quickhacks as support tools.
The problem is that stealth netrunning, where you don't get caught and don't enter combat, is not possible anymore because of the dumb tracing gimmick, the lack of breach protocol and the insane RAM cost of quickhacks. The update removed build variety.
Look, everyone [actually I was implying the exact opposite, but sure; note taken.] knew the previous Netrunner build was just beyond stupid. Absolutely nothing could stand in your path, it outclassed everything else by miles. "But the game is Single Player, balance is meaningless" not when things are favoured so far to one side to the point where it's a bad choice going the other. The nerf was warranted, and I welcome it while being a primarily Netrunner player. The new perks are really good, and while I don't exactly relish the whole "combo this type with that", it works decently enough. Distract Enemies should cost 1 RAM though, no matter the object, to incentivize using it [the combo aspect] more.
What I dislike is the current inability the game is giving us in playing STEALTH Netrunner. Everyone traces you, and if you wanna play stealthy, you'll have to run away and back several times.
Seriously, add a simple "this [your Quickhack target] and those [2 random] enemies in the same network are tracing you", give them white outlines like enemies get when you use Distract Enemies, AND LET US DEAL WITH THE PROBLEM BY ENGAGING IT. We kill the enemies running the trace, it stops. When we hack someone else, another trace begins. Having to run away and back everytime a trace is happening is atrocious, and makes us do the exact opposite of what you would with a game: engage with the content.
When I posted this, I was low level, didn't have enough tools.
After I got my Cyberdeck to Tier 3 and got Tier 3 hacks (and Sonic Shock), I realized that Cyberhacks are still beyond broken. The only difference is that now I need two Quickhacks instead of one to down people stealthily (Sonic Shock + Whatever). Plus, some of the other combos with high level Quickhacks are just beyond disgusting. Triple Stacking Cyberware Malfunction into someone then using Short Circuit murders just about anything. Great bossing tool.
Much like before 2.0, where Quickhacks were garbage before level 10, the difference now is that they are garbage before level 15-ish. But overall, after it gets going, it's FAR superior than before.
When I posted this, I was low level, didn't have enough tools.
After I got my Cyberdeck to Tier 3 and got Tier 3 hacks (and Sonic Shock), I realized that Cyberhacks are still beyond broken. The only difference is that now I need two Quickhacks instead of one to down people stealthily (Sonic Shock + Whatever). Plus, some of the other combos with high level Quickhacks are just beyond disgusting. Triple Stacking Cyberware Malfunction into someone then using Short Circuit murders just about anything. Great bossing tool.
Much like before 2.0, where Quickhacks were garbage before level 10, the difference now is that they are garbage before level 15-ish. But overall, after it gets going, it's FAR superior than before.
Cyberware Malfunction only stacks after you get it Tier 3 or more. So you don't go looking for that combo now and don't get why it isn't working. But yeah, you can just stack quick hacks on queue now, pretty chill.
Also, don't forget to look at Cyberware other than Decks. So far for me (Cyberware at Tier 3 as well), at least 4 different categories have +# RAM, which is damn invaluable. Not to mention increased RAM regeneration, more Quickhack and DoT damage...
Shit starts stacking pretty damn nicely as you level up.
There is no netrunner anymore. Not it's monowirerunner or smartgunrunner.
20 INT + 20 Reflexes
"Submachine fun" + "Smart synergy".
2 shingens.
Hold that fire button and spam gun swapping.
P.S. Now INT needed to handle with smart guns, but not scripts
I'm utterly shocked by this patch. Utterly.
I was entirely buying into the hype-train of how good it would be, but this patch has killed the game dead for me.
Hacking is just gone. It is now so weak, it is literally not worth using. Why would I spec so many points to stealth and hacking if it does no damage, costs a fortune to use, is staggeringly slow, none of the hacks spread without that top perk (however the hell you unlock that; your awful new UI explains nothing), and is now just a way for enemies to instantly locate you and blow you away? I have the top 5+++ starred gear in the game; it is now worthless. Is that supposed to be a good feeling?
Add to that that I no longer have health packs (the top maxdoc restores about 5% of my health meter (how is that any use to anyone?) and you've effectively removed grenades given how slow they 'spawn' (a ridiculous and immersion-destroying decision) and the fact that every car in the game i now a grenade in waiting.
And finally, the worst part: we can respec ONCE in a game we are likely to play for dozens upon dozens of hours? No. Just no. This is likely the worst decision you made. How am I supposed to redefine my playstyle to this new paradigm if I cannot experiment with builds? it is just nonsense.
You've [...] made all the wrong decision. I am now gonna have to stop the playthrough I was in the middle of and wait until you reconsider this mess and give us back any form of power or control in the game. At least I hope to Jebus you reconsider, as this game is just dead to me, right now. All the fun, all the playstyles I liked, has been utterly stripped out and I am now left with an extremely buggy vanilla shooter that I have no interest in playing.
This is Cyberpunk. A game I am supposed to be able to play as an elite netrunner. It now just feels like any other shooter, and is massively worse for it. Please, for the love of my favourite game, reconsider your decisions.
The Netwatch cyberdeck used to spread quickhacks to nearby enemies 2 0r 3 I think it was it doesn't do that with this update if feels wrong all the time spent grinding and buying/crafting the best gear feels like a slap in the face from CDPR I am thankful for the new vehicles and interactions not happy my V went from a god to demi-god now to a puny mortal. One major change that pisses me off I can't remove mods from weapons nothing worse than getting a teir 5+ with teir 1 or 2 mods equip with no way to replace or remove them
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Whats sad is I only got one Cyberdeck shard for killing around 200 Valentinos in the park area did get perks boost shards almost maxed on those now hopefully I'll have a better chance for max cap shards
The Netwatch cyberdeck used to spread quickhacks to nearby enemies 2 0r 3 I think it was it doesn't do that with this update if feels wrong all the time spent grinding and buying/crafting the best gear feels like a slap in the face from CDPR
I think CDPR went a little to far in some of their changes in some areas with the 2.0 update, and WAAY to far in some others. And if I had to summarize: they REALLY don't want you to feel powerful anymore....PARTICULARLY as a stealth hacking build.
The in-game economy in the game is, staggeringly, even more pointless and useless than it was before.
It is just...so incredibly poorly designed if you want to use the money you're using to ever buy anything useful because you remain simply not allowed to buy fun toys until you've upped your Street Cred/Level or whatever.
They somehow made this aspect worse by not even showing you what you don't qualify to purchase yet or let you know what you need to get to street cred or level wise for you to get it.
And then they made it even worse than that still by not even being able to buy basic components to use to do crafting or upgrading. It is just kind of flat impossible to ever either buy or earn anything more than at most moderately useful for your current level.
What is the point of still having the ability to get endless quickhack components to craft quickhack upgrades, if you can't upgrade your cyberdeck to the rarity tier that will let you use any of the upgraded ones? I'm sitting here with about 10 blue tier quickhacks that I still can't use because I have to wait until the game decides it is finally okay for me to have a blue tier cyberdeck to slot them into because I can find and buy the crafting components for them no problem, but I'm still waiting for the game to start dropping blue tier components to use in any significant number on my cyberdeck or for the Rippers to finally have them in stock.
They've added level scaling into the game. Which is always one of my least favorite things.
These two things combined really make it feel like you're jogging through chest deep water trying to progress. Gaining a new level feels pretty damn immaterial.
And don't get me started on how utterly useless hacking (in a cyberpunk game!) now is.
I do get that it desperately needed a nerf, but it is mostly flat awful now and has next to no synergy with a stealth build anymore because most hacks that you might use on an enemy are "traceable" now.
Which, sadly, means that if you use hacking to take out an enemy, then about ten seconds later you've been traced and the other 10 enemies in the room now know exactly where you are. This applies to waaaay to many hacks. Even something like Reboot Optics just doesn't work anymore with stealth builds because it is traceable.
So if you want to be a stealthy hacker, then have fun painstakingly using "Distract Enemies" and "Bait" to move them about so you can sneak up behind them and take them out by hand....over and over and over and over again....
HOWEVER the only issue I massively dislike with stealth netrunning is that tracing is performed globally without a specific person in the group doing it. I was under the impression that being traced will be performed by the group's Netrunner and that taking them out will stop it. But unfortunately it's just an incredibly shallow gimmick mechanic that breaks immersion because it's done globally until the last enemy is dealt with.
So instead of a very immersive tactical gameplay of having to find out who the Netrunner is and taking them out, we instead get a global timer for stealth segments which is constantly buzzing the entire time until the last enemy is dealt with.
That to me is the reason why I seriously do not like how tracing is done. It's a good idea, but executed extremely poorly. There should be specific targets to deal with in order to stop it, kinda like how previously we had Breach Protocol to permanently disable certain aspects of a location. Dealing with the Netrunner should permanently disable their ICE protection which makes all hacks untraceable for that location.
This would then give incentive to also scout out the area through cameras to find the Netrunner before really diving in.
100,000% this. Wonderful tweak that should be made immediately. Because hacking SHOULD be a stealthy approach and right now the stealth options of hacking are incredibly limited because nearly everything other than stuff like Distract Enemies or Bait starts a global trace from ALL other enemies in the area.
I'm utterly shocked by this patch. Utterly.
I was entirely buying into the hype-train of how good it would be, but this patch has killed the game dead for me.
Hacking is just gone. It is now so weak, it is literally not worth using. Why would I spec so many points to stealth and hacking if it does no damage, costs a fortune to use, is staggeringly slow, none of the hacks spread without that top perk (however the hell you unlock that; your awful new UI explains nothing), and is now just a way for enemies to instantly locate you and blow you away? I have the top 5+++ starred gear in the game; it is now worthless. Is that supposed to be a good feeling?
Add to that that I no longer have health packs (the top maxdoc restores about 5% of my health meter (how is that any use to anyone?) and you've effectively removed grenades given how slow they 'spawn' (a ridiculous and immersion-destroying decision) and the fact that every car in the game i now a grenade in waiting.
And finally, the worst part: we can respec ONCE in a game we are likely to play for dozens upon dozens of hours? No. Just no. This is likely the worst decision you made. How am I supposed to redefine my playstyle to this new paradigm if I cannot experiment with builds? it is just nonsense.
You've [...] made all the wrong decision. I am now gonna have to stop the playthrough I was in the middle of and wait until you reconsider this mess and give us back any form of power or control in the game. At least I hope to Jebus you reconsider, as this game is just dead to me, right now. All the fun, all the playstyles I liked, has been utterly stripped out and I am now left with an extremely buggy vanilla shooter that I have no interest in playing.
This is Cyberpunk. A game I am supposed to be able to play as an elite netrunner. It now just feels like any other shooter, and is massively worse for it. Please, for the love of my favourite game, reconsider your decisions.
I feel you man. Had already finished the game once a few months ago but with the promise of new and quality of life features being introduced in 2.0 I hopped on the hype train and instantly redownloaded it onto my console only to realize how shit this update actually was. My biggest problem is stamina being tied to gun fire. It just makes absolutely no sense and kills any sense of immersion and makes gun fights slow and tedious now.
I think CDPR went a little to far in some of their changes in some areas with the 2.0 update, and WAAY to far in some others. And if I had to summarize: they REALLY don't want you to feel powerful anymore....PARTICULARLY as a stealth hacking build.
The in-game economy in the game is, staggeringly, even more pointless and useless than it was before.
It is just...so incredibly poorly designed if you want to use the money you're using to ever buy anything useful because you remain simply not allowed to buy fun toys until you've upped your Street Cred/Level or whatever.
They somehow made this aspect worse by not even showing you what you don't qualify to purchase yet or let you know what you need to get to street cred or level wise for you to get it.
I agree with this, and I think a good compromise would be items costing WAY MORE than they normally would because you don't have the necessary streetwise/level to buy it. 50k at the correct requirements? Make it 300k without them. But give us the option to buy them if we can pull it off.
And then they made it even worse than that still by not even being able to buy basic components to use to do crafting or upgrading. It is just kind of flat impossible to ever either buy or earn anything more than at most moderately useful for your current level.
What is the point of still having the ability to get endless quickhack components to craft quickhack upgrades, if you can't upgrade your cyberdeck to the rarity tier that will let you use any of the upgraded ones? I'm sitting here with about 10 blue tier quickhacks that I still can't use because I have to wait until the game decides it is finally okay for me to have a blue tier cyberdeck to slot them into because I can find and buy the crafting components for them no problem, but I'm still waiting for the game to start dropping blue tier components to use in any significant number on my cyberdeck or for the Rippers to finally have them in stock.
Just plain wrong though. Breakdown shit you won't use (selling isn't that profitable anymore), convert low tier materials into higher tier ones, upgrade your deck. I was using a Tier 3+ deck at level 13-14. Didn't even have a single Tier 3 Quickhack to go with it, but the deck was upgraded and ready.
And don't get me started on how utterly useless hacking (in a cyberpunk game!) now is.
I do get that it desperately needed a nerf, but it is mostly flat awful now and has next to no synergy with a stealth build anymore because most hacks that you might use on an enemy are "traceable" now.
Which, sadly, means that if you use hacking to take out an enemy, then about ten seconds later you've been traced and the other 10 enemies in the room now know exactly where you are. This applies to waaaay to many hacks. Even something like Reboot Optics just doesn't work anymore with stealth builds because it is traceable.
So if you want to be a stealthy hacker, then have fun painstakingly using "Distract Enemies" and "Bait" to move them about so you can sneak up behind them and take them out by hand....over and over and over and over again....
Partially wrong, and a complaint I had before too. Hacking is still extremely powerful, and the non-stealth problem goes away as soon as you start using Sonic Shock Tier 3. Upgrade your deck like I said, and keep breaching everything you see in the world, a Sonic Shock, or the Crafting Recipe for it, will drop eventually. And then you'll see just how strong netrunning is. I'd risk saying it's even stronger than before now, because with Overclock you no longer have RAM issues, and with Level Scaling (the really bad part of the whole update, to a degree) no enemy will survive your combo queues, as they are level gated to you. And you have a metric fuck-ton of Quickhack/DoT upgrades through Cyberware. (and some gear.)
Just like in the old days, Netrunning is bad up to a certain level. Then it's broken again. Just keep playing. And check the new game mechanics more often, the fact that you didn't know you could upgrade materials to upgrade your Cyberdeck says fucking wonders.
Partially wrong, and a complaint I had before too. Hacking is still extremely powerful, and the non-stealth problem goes away as soon as you start using Sonic Shock Tier 3. Upgrade your deck like I said, and keep breaching everything you see in the world, a Sonic Shock, or the Crafting Recipe for it, will drop eventually. And then you'll see just how strong netrunning is. I'd risk saying it's even stronger than before now, because with Overclock you no longer have RAM issues, and with Level Scaling (the really bad part of the whole update, to a degree) no enemy will survive your combo queues, as they are level gated to you. And you have a metric fuck-ton of Quickhack/DoT upgrades through Cyberware. (and some gear.)
Just like in the old days, Netrunning is bad up to a certain level. Then it's broken again. Just keep playing. And check the new game mechanics more often, the fact that you didn't know you could upgrade materials to upgrade your Cyberdeck says fucking wonders
I have actually started to notice most of what you've said.
Seeing someone (might have even been you?) mention that Sonic Shock prevents tracing has been a godsend with regards to some of my issues with quickhacks triggering tracing. Hacking is now useful for stealthing again provided I have enough queue space to apply Sonic Shock and enough damage dealing sequentially. I do think that they need to improve some of the explanations in-game though. I don't know how long it would have taken me to discover the incredible utility of Sonic Shock without reading it here...and that only happens after coming here to complain.
Similarly, I think a large part of the getting a new cyberdeck problem is that I assumed that money was useful. So I was selling stuff in the early levels that you mention and, frankly, money is mostly useLESS because there is nothing to buy that isn't gate-keeped off in some way. I think you're on the mark that the solution is to just disassemble everything to fast-forward to getting a higher tier cyberdeck. Like you said earlier in your post, I would have preferred to have the option of just paying a much higher price to obtain gear that would be "risky" for vendors to sell to a nobody like me with low street cred.
And almost immediately after getting up to Tier-3 cyberdeck, along with the ability to stack a couple of hacks and having a better idea of how the new hacking/tracing system works, hacking/stealth started to feel like a viable combo again.
One thing I think you got wrong is that I did know you could use components to upgrade my cyberdeck. I complained about the lack of ability to buy them in fact. It just seemed like the ability to get enough of the tier of rarity that I wanted to get meant that it still wasn't really all that possible until I reached the level where you could just buy new cyberdecks outright. This kind of goes hand-in-hand with the realization that selling shit is mostly useless vs disassembling everything. Once I had that "aha" moment a lot of stuff fell into place.
It is just so counter-intuitive to have piles and piles of money in the game, and TONS of shops to spend it in, with nothing worthwhile to buy.
