Netrunning in 2.0 is still amazing

[ToreadorVampire]

Something I've thought about recently is making a change to my installed quickhacks.

Oddly I don't use Contagion at all at the moment. The chance of accidentally affecting someone unwanted (a civ, or cop, or someone who isn't sonic shocked) is too great. Plus, seeing as I'm always undetected and usually taking my time, high aggregate DoT DPS doesn't really matter to me.

I currently have Cyberpsychosis loaded into my deck, but almost never use it. In fact, any time I do, it's just "for the fun of seeing it". I'm strongly considering swapping it out with Cripple Movement. I think CM might be more useful for taking things like cyber psychos or bosses, to ensure that they can't close the distance to me quickly. Super-close-range is where I'm weakest. My tactics there are likely to change to: Sonic Shock, 2 stacks of Cyberware Malfunction, 1 stack Cripple Movement. Wait for those to upload, then activate Overclock, drop 4 stacks of Synapse Burnout on them and wish them the best of luck.

 

[AikoHayashi]

I wonder why they changed the non-lethal hacks to lethal, it really sucks.

 

[aladinf]

I have no idea what people are missing in stealth netrunning - havnt played pre 2.0 though. But if i want i can kill any crowd without any Mob going even in alert mode. Hacking through cameras, anyone? What is it exactly that people are missing?

 

[Kraxe13]

I have no idea what people are missing in stealth netrunning - havnt played pre 2.0 though. But if i want i can kill any crowd without any Mob going even in alert mode. Hacking through cameras, anyone? What is it exactly that people are missing?

I am glad you are finding the new combat to your liking.
However many of us of us have been playing for years before 2.0 so please don’t present “hacking through cameras” as something new to the veterans here, or something we never considered before.

The old combat system was less “gimmicky” in my opinion. Have a cyberdeck? Great! That was all that was needed. Everything else was optional, depending on play style.
No over clocking, no need for blood pumps, no concern over hack orders.

In a way it felt like a stealthy sniper build. Picking off npcs, using a variety of hacks of your choosing.
Now it appears overclocking (which was not in the game before) is mandatory. And since that is mandatory, cyberware that offsets the affects are mandatory. And stealth hacking is not in the game until you hit tier 3 and then sonic shock becomes mandatory as the first hack. Always.

It feels like “play how you want” style has been replaced by a sort of anime inspired “over the top” combat style.
it’s just not as fun as it used to be.

 

[warlock75]

The old combat system was less “gimmicky” in my opinion. Have a cyberdeck? Great! That was all that was needed. Everything else was optional, depending on play style.

Absolutely. Another thing I don't like is the overlapping traits on hacks, do this hack followed by this hack, do a finisher and a little dance and you'll do mega damage. Okay game, why don't you just queue up the hacks for me? You obviously have a desired way I should be playing.

 

[Greeniewolf]

I'm not sure I'd call it amazing, but each to their own. I think ultimately this has been 2.0's achilles heel: it's making some players absurdly happy and others frustrated. Very polarising (which, dear reader, isn't a great thing).

Did the changes introduce build depth in a meaningful way, in everyone's opinion?
Because honestly, almost every positive post about netrunning in 2.0 involves...



"Having trouble early game? Get basic sonic shock, and a throwing knife or kill enemies with environmental items (falling crates, explosions)."
They're not wrong, but based on observing all the discussions, this is the prevailing "way to do early netrunning 2.0".

That is until you get a few levels and perks to unlock queues and overclock plus additional tiers in your cyberdeck.
Then, the overwhelmingly suggested/used stack is...



... because ...



... it works. It's an area clearing build.
With one twist on the formula being to make bombs out of enemies by using short circuit after poisoning them with contagion:



So, and genuinely no shade on anyone I've quoted above I mean that, the net sum of changes, which might have been implemented to push netrunners towards variety and away from a super-build, seems to be just that everyone's organically discovering a new super-build.

There will be outliers, exceptions, people playing netrunning with slightly different kitted decks, sure. Analysing posts here and a few other sites, the change in netrunning has introduced a shift from a "mixed-bag of cyberdeck but if you want to be OP go contagion, short circuit and suicide" netrunner to "mixed-bag cyberdeck but if you want to be OP go sonic shock, short circuit and malfunction".

Which is fine

In my opinion it doesn't feel any less broken than it might have before, just more laborious to get there maybe? So is that a gain, it being fractionally harder to achieve? I think that's a line call, and for me it begs the question: why change so much if the outcome is not substantially better. Just to "keep it fresh"?

Considering I can beat the game before I'm high enough level to have enough points to unlock that that build needs, it's useless to me. A point the overwhelming majority that keep screaming "see this build makes it op" don't seem to get.

 

[Tricky81]

When I realised netrunning doesn't have to be OP to be effective and fun, I started having a lot more fun with it. That is to say, if like to go around manipulating the environment.

 

[ShaniForever]

I kinda liked netrunning better before 2.0 patch. There is something in getting fast, obliterate, and leave and nobody notice anything.
Now, it does take longer. Not satisfying as before.

 

[Tokenn77]

Netrunning/cyberninja tactics have to change, and it takes a while to get powerful, but I definitely like the changes. Some people just can't wrap their heads around the fact that their tactics need to be different now.

 

[Kraxe13]

Netrunning/cyberninja tactics have to change, and it takes a while to get powerful, but I definitely like the changes. Some people just can't wrap their heads around the fact that their tactics need to be different now.

Not to sound too much like a broken record, for me personally it’s not that the new way is not powerful, it’s that it is not as enjoyable as the old way.

CDPR could have implemented a way so that both styles could have still co-existed, but they chose not to.

 

[TheUnderToad]

I thought so at first. But then I found some OP combos and exploits that make it more fun and engaging for me. Less true stealth unless I want to go slow.

 

[SolipCado]

I've seen lots of posts complaining about netrunning since the 2.0 Patch (Only here though, sentiment is overwhelmingly positive on any other site). People say it's now impossible to be a stealth netrunner, and that the build is completely broken. They also complain about the trace mechanic. Personally, as someone who has been playing as a stealth netrunner since launch and is now on his 4th playthrough, I find that stealth netrunning not only still works in 2.0, but feels amazing and more complete than before.

First of all, of course you won't be able to be an OP netrunner when starting the game. At a low level, you shouldn't be able to be one of the best netrunners in Night City. It makes no sense. If you're playing on the harder difficulties, you won't be able to just waltz into an encounter with a Katana and cut up every enemy like it's nothing either. You need to actually invest in your build to be able to be an efficient netrunner, which makes sense and is how every RPG ever has worked. This was a clear flaw of the system at launch, that many people asked to be fix. It was simply too OP.

Then, there is the trace. It used to be limited to one netrunner, which made it really easy to avoid. Just find the netrunner through cameras and kill them first, and you're golden. It needed to be buffed as a mechanic. A trace is also a pretty simple thing, and anyone on the network should be able to do it. Enemy groups are all connected on the same network, this has been established many times in the game, since launch. It makes perfect sense that anyone on the network would be able to trace an intruder.

Now, if you play as a stealth netrunner, you will have to invest in your build. This goes beyond your perks, and extends to the cyberware you buy and the quickhacks you get. If you invest in the right perks, buy the right cyberdeck, and equip the right quickhacks, you will be able to deal with entire groups of enemies while either avoiding the trace or killing everyone before it finishes. I have done this myself many times, killing everyone during a gig without ever pulling out a weapon or going out of stealth.

If you really can't wait until you invest in your build, or you just can't deal with the mechanic, you should be aware that putting enough distance between you and the enemy will lead to an automatic fail for the trace. You don't even have to go that far TBH, you just move around until it fails and then get right back to it. There are also ways to start picking off enemies before you use a quickhack that leads to a trace. For example, you can lure enemies (Bait, distract enemies, etc.) in a secluded spots and use hackable objects to kill them, like overloading a fuel tank or dropping some boxes on them. If the spot is secluded enough, other enemies won't notice. Even if they do, you cannot get traced by hacking an object (Which again makes sense, since they aren't on the same network), so there will be no trace and they will simply start searching. If you're well hidden, it's not a problem. You can also complement the early build with takedowns by baiting enemies to easy takedown spots or by having a silenced sniper or pistol and picking off a couple of isolated enemies to reduce the time needed to kill the others by quickhacks.

Overclock also makes a lot of sense, lore-wise, as a mechanic. Pretty much every great netrunner we encounter in the game have a netrunning chair, and some even have an ice bath to cool down. This is because netrunning is EXTREMELY hard on the body. This has been highlighted many times in the game, and in other Cyberpunk media. In the game, we're doing netrunning on the fly, without any equipment. This would obviously cause you a lot of pain, and to use many pwerful quickhacks in a row, it makes sense that you would take damage. I actually think this is one the coolest mechanics of the game. If you invest in health regeneration perks on top of that, you become a netrunning god and it's almost limitless.

With the build fully realized, you can be just as powerful as in previous versions of the game. They just finally decided to include an actual sense of progression, instead of allowing netrunning to be OP right off the bat. You didn't even have to think before, it was way too easy to use quickhacks to kill enemies.

Another thing is that you don't necessarily have to kill everyone either. Stay in stealth, spot where you need to go for the mission, maybe by using cameras, and only take out specific, strategic targets. Then you get to your goal, do what you need to do and leave before they get the chance to trace you. For example, in the An Inconvenient Killer gig, you need to kill Jack Mausser in a packed club. Walking in and scoping the place, I quickly noticed that it would be very hard to isolate enemies, and thus almost impossible to kill everyone and gain easy access to the office without being traced. So what I did instead, was stand on the second level in the public area, straight across from Jack Mausser's office. He was standing in front of his window, looking down to the people dancing in his club. I activated Overclock, looked straight at him and used the suicide quickhack. He pulled out his gun, shot himself in the head, and died. I calmly walked out of there and nobody ever knew I was there.

Truly a badass netrunner moment.

It’s not amazing. Especially in The Don’t Fear The Reaper Questline. Love the game I do, but now I’m starting to hate it. Congrats CD Projekt Red should be proud of themselves because they’ve managed to create unbeatable NPCs in a single player game. Other players may have complained about the difficulty before 2.0 but honestly I didn’t see a problem, because not only is it a single player game, but lore accurately V is overpowered. I’m on my 20th attempt (not exaggerating) of trying to beat the Don’t Fear The Reaper Questline on” Very Hard”. Prior to the 2.0 update it was possible unfortunately now it’s not. I understand lore wise it’s supposed to be nearly impossible but this is beyond ridiculous. Why is it I’m getting one shotted in this questline but every single enemy takes a full clip to eliminate. That’s not balanced at all. Every other questline I’m able to dominate on the hardest difficulty with status effects purchased from vendors but this one is impossible. I’m absolutely FURIOUS with this, it’s literally not playable. I just don’t understand the thought process of making a single player game more difficult. How am I supposed to beat the questline without changing the difficulty, because honestly if it’s an available difficulty, then logically it should be beatable. However it’s not because the player will consistently get one shotted in the questline. Hopefully CD Projekt RED resolves this issue because I loved playing this game, however this issue is absolutely making this game atrocious.

Impossible “Don’t Fear The Reaper” Questline



Impossible “Don’t Fear The Reaper” Questline pt. 2



Impossible Smasher Boss (Don’t Fear The Reaper)

 

[Greeniewolf]

Netrunning/cyberninja tactics have to change, and it takes a while to get powerful, but I definitely like the changes. Some people just can't wrap their heads around the fact that their tactics need to be different now.

no, what we can't wrap our minds around is that for some of us, we beat the game BEFORE we have enough levels to be able to implement the tactics you people keep going on about.

"by level 20 you can overclock, use t3 sonic shock, and you're great. Why are you complaining."

Uh, because I beat the main questline AND the expansion by level 18.

Yeah, maybe by 18 I theoretically can have t3 sonic shock by level 15 but what's the point when by that point you're 4/5ths of the way through the game? ( But then again, they just nerfed the game again to make it harder to do so because the project manager for 2.1 and Liberty is mad that "netrunning was still too easy and too accessable" (his words)).

Cyberpunk no longer feels like a cyberpunk game. It feels like a lousy GTA clone. It saddens me that the Liberty team is the team doing the sequal because they already stated they intend to make netrunning even less of a focus in the next game while making combat even more so.

 

[LadyMiseryAli]

Um...if you finished the game by level 18, then that sounds like you rushed through instead of playing at a more casual pace. That's not the game's fault...

 

[Kraxe13]

no, what we can't wrap our minds around is that for some of us, we beat the game BEFORE we have enough levels to be able to implement the tactics you people keep going on about.

"by level 20 you can overclock, use t3 sonic shock, and you're great. Why are you complaining."

Uh, because I beat the main questline AND the expansion by level 18.

Yeah, maybe by 18 I theoretically can have t3 sonic shock by level 15 but what's the point when by that point you're 4/5ths of the way through the game? ( But then again, they just nerfed the game again to make it harder to do so because the project manager for 2.1 and Liberty is mad that "netrunning was still too easy and too accessable" (his words)).

Cyberpunk no longer feels like a cyberpunk game. It feels like a lousy GTA clone. It saddens me that the Liberty team is the team doing the sequal because they already stated they intend to make netrunning even less of a focus in the next game while making combat even more so.

Pretty much this.
But I feel they got overly influenced by the anime and it’s over the top combat.
There was a Star Wars anime that was kind of popular, but they did not change all future Star Wars fights to be over the top anime style fights.
CDPR though I feel fell into that trap. And it does not really fit. I mean combat COULD be that way. But that is not really the world of Cyberpunk. Cyberpunk should feel more like the first Bladerunner, but with more (crazy) gangs.
Ah well.

 

[GameslordXY]

I am glad you are finding the new combat to your liking.
However many of us of us have been playing for years before 2.0 so please don’t present “hacking through cameras” as something new to the veterans here, or something we never considered before.

The old combat system was less “gimmicky” in my opinion. Have a cyberdeck? Great! That was all that was needed. Everything else was optional, depending on play style.
No over clocking, no need for blood pumps, no concern over hack orders.

In a way it felt like a stealthy sniper build. Picking off npcs, using a variety of hacks of your choosing.
Now it appears overclocking (which was not in the game before) is mandatory. And since that is mandatory, cyberware that offsets the affects are mandatory. And stealth hacking is not in the game until you hit tier 3 and then sonic shock becomes mandatory as the first hack. Always.

It feels like “play how you want” style has been replaced by a sort of anime inspired “over the top” combat style.
it’s just not as fun as it used to be.

How is Sonic Shock mandatory.
I used only a few times.
Wasn't impressed

 

[Greeniewolf]

How is Sonic Shock mandatory.
I used only a few times.
Wasn't impressed

For stealthly netruning you need tier3 sonic shock or mindwipe to avoid being traced.

 

[GameslordXY]

For stealthly netruning you need tier3 sonic shock or mindwipe to avoid being traced.

oh

 

[aladinf]

Uh, because I beat the main questline AND the expansion by level 18.

But that is a questionable approach to the game in itself. I doubt many play it like this- its essentially speedrunning. And by asking to have your playstyle working 100% in such an early phase of the character progression you pretty much want the game to be dumbed down for those who dont speedrun and play eg to earn streetcred to become a legend. Imho the game already gets too easy too early and the biggest fun is the way to make your build work. After that you enjoy your opness for a while until you get bored and start a new run. But thats just me.

I also would like them to have more netrunners in encounters so that perking into the trace perks (Counter A Hack, Encryption and Shadowrunner) and things like Self Ice (which are btw all available early on) is more usefull. In essence i would even think if audioshock was gone the whole experience would be more enjoyable with getting rid of other netrunners via counterhacks and the time pressure you are facing when using hacks. These whole Audioshock memes with killing someone who stands next to another one is what i dislike most. Only once i had some netrunner trying to upload an Ultimate Quickhack and it was one of the best fights to find him and kill him before the upload was finnished.
It should be part of the stealth netrunner gamplay to be traced and counter it either by being faster in what you do or by finding the tracer and kill him. Thats imho more fitting to the whole concept.

And to be honest, if you stand in front of Adam Smasher with Level 18 and a streed cred of i dont know 20? he should laugh at you and wipe you out. That it is still working is the downside of level scaling.

 

[SigilFey]

Let's keep it constructive, please.