NG buffs are a joke... right?

[M3e0w]

they were way too dependent on good card draws and well chosen mulligans

I mean, I hate the ball nerf cause NG was weak, but calling the single ball deck draw dependant is just plain false, was one of the most consistent decks in the meta with the 5prov thinning cards, oneiromancy and Roderick, you have to be insanely unlucky to miss more than 1 gold[and you choose which gold that is]. Was still weak despite that.

 

[Philido]

I mean, I hate the ball nerf cause NG was weak, but calling the single ball deck draw dependant is just plain false, was one of the most consistent decks in the meta with the 5prov thinning cards, oneiromancy and Roderick, you have to be insanely unlucky to miss more than 1 gold[and you choose which gold that is]. Was still weak despite that.

You're talking about Hyperthin. Which is a completely different deck.

 

[EduFerraz]

One can hardly call buffs what NG got in exchange for nerfing Ball. Palmerin's buff is an inferior version of Fergus. How often did you see Fergus being played by NG decks? Rarely. Well, Palmerin will be played even more rarely than Fergus.

I still don't get why people are so salty about Ball. Toxic as it was, these last 2 months saw a huge decrease in the number of decks playing it. Even those that played it, they were only efficient against NR, and even against them, they were way too dependent on good card draws and well chosen mulligans.

No way, lets assume The average of cards use in round One its five ir six.

OK, lets see how Ball works..

With 4 rounds, problably The players puts The lonely guy Who boosy himself, than Ball, than One more seductress, than One Block vampire.

With 4 cards The lonely soldier Will be with 7 points, The seductress Will be bothe with 7 points (2 points from poison, 1 for Block) you Will have 2 sepent fang (8 points) and One more vampire Block (3 points).

Total of 32 points.

Your oppenent, in The same 4 cards Will have 1 card problably killed and one card locked, resting only 2 cards operating.

Unless you are playing with a swarm deck, you problably are screwed.

OK, Maybe NG needs to use block first, so his points Will draw a little, but still is going to be somrthin next do 25-30 points.

You can say other scenarios can works similarity (like siege) and i agree, but they play only by One round

 

[M3e0w]

You're talking about Hyperthin. Which is a completely different deck.

No, I was talking about the single ball deck.

Hyperthin doesn't even run oneiromancy or roderick ...

 

[Philido]

No, I was talking about the single ball deck.

Hyperthin doesn't even run oneiromancy or roderick ...

I have never seen a Single Ball Deck with Oneiromancy before... these decks are Devotion 99.9% of the time....

 

[ya1]

I have never seen a Single Ball Deck with Oneiromancy before...

Most people complaining about NG are from the lower levels of play where you can see plenty of homebrews. I'm not saying that as an offense. Actually, I'm wondering what it is exactly that made NG have like 57% winrate at rank 16 (that was Formation before the nerfs) and hardly break even at pro.

 

[Philido]

Most people complaining about NG are from the lower levels of play where you can see plenty of homebrews. I'm not saying that as an offense. Actually, I'm wondering what it is exactly that made NG have like 57% winrate at rank 16 (that was Formation before the nerfs) and hardly break even at pro.

Pretty sure the reason is not knowing how to play the match-up, eg. not bleeding and simply drypassing or something like that. NG's long round is way better than its short round. And new players (I also did this) tend to just do this because it's "easier" than to actually strategically bleed out the key cards or to go for 2-0.

 

[quintivarium]

Or maybe the obvious, beginners lose to NG because it has a half dozen instant win cards — cards that are easily counterable if you own the counters and have enough supporting cards to make those counters useful in other matchups — but beginners don’t have those cards, and need their scraps to build their own decks and not to counter yours.

 

[Bleach25]

Or maybe the obvious, beginners lose to NG because it has a half dozen instant win cards — cards that are easily counterable if you own the counters and have enough supporting cards to make those counters useful in other matchups — but beginners don’t have those cards, and need their scraps to build their own decks and not to counter yours.

Which cards?

 

[quintivarium]

Cahil is the worst culprit, Ball is usually bad news, Damien can often be bad — especially with defender, Yennifer’s invocation if you run the wrong deck, Skellen (in conjunction with royal decree), Coup de Grace, Vincent (remember beginners decks are far more likely to be one trick ponies).

 

[ShinAkira00]

Pretty sure the reason is not knowing how to play the match-up, eg. not bleeding and simply drypassing or something like that. NG's long round is way better than its short round. And new players (I also did this) tend to just do this because it's "easier" than to actually strategically bleed out the key cards or to go for 2-0.

If the faction can counter and has the option to remove almost anything you put on the board how exactly do you propose bleeding them? I never understood NG players logic of "get good"....lol I'm not a beginner and I have difficulty against NG so I'd love to hear your solution

 

[Bleach25]

Cahil is the worst culprit, Ball is usually bad news, Damien can often be bad — especially with defender, Yennifer’s invocation if you run the wrong deck, Skellen (in conjunction with royal decree), Coup de Grace, Vincent (remember beginners decks are far more likely to be one trick ponies).

To be honest none of these except Cahir and maybe Ball is truly game-winning. Not anymore than any other expensive gold card and honestly most of them require set-up to work.

 

[Philido]

If the faction can counter and has the option to remove almost anything you put on the board how exactly do you propose bleeding them? I never understood NG players logic of "get good"....lol I'm not a beginner and I have difficulty against NG so I'd love to hear your solution

Works just like against every other deck or faction. You're a MO player, right? Remember Kikimore Queen? Losing round one against this deck was almost certainly your end. So you had to BLEED the combo pieces out, otherwise you were pretty much doomed. Exact same thing for NG and every other faction, but you do need to know the cards you want to be gone. That's the whole magic and the "NG players logic of get good". And once again I'm asking the question I almost never get an answer to: How often have you played NG yourself that you can be so sure about the statements you are constantly making about this faction?

 

[M3e0w]

Coup de Grace

Coup de Grace is a joke of an echo card, needs setup, can be played around any number of ways, and is very unlikely to actually be good in more than 1 round.
Meanwhile, AA can provide insane tempo, thinning & get you a desperately needed card just when you need it, TWICE, with no setup and no real condition.

Cahil is the worst culprit

I agree Cahir should be reworked though, it's unplayable cause NG can't protect its cards and useless against the dominant SK, but if you can't counter it with a deck that buffs a lot it's basically GG. Not a fun card, Binary.

Damien can often be bad — especially with defender, Yennifer’s invocation if you run the wrong deck, Skellen (in conjunction with royal decree)

Damien 5 for 11 provisions, high risk cause everything can kill a 5 and NG defender isn't exactly hard to beat... and the payoff isn't even that great. The same thing goes for Skellen.. maybe they're good on lower ranks, but I mean so are Yghern, Morkwarg, Anseis, and a plethora of other 10 provisions cards, the difference being that these other ones also see play in the pro meta, while Damien and Skellen don't..
Invocation is a great card, but every faction has great cards, you can't just point at NG and say hey, that card looks good, let's put it in a not trash faction!....

 

[Philido]

Cahil is the worst culprit, Ball is usually bad news, Damien can often be bad — especially with defender, Yennifer’s invocation if you run the wrong deck, Skellen (in conjunction with royal decree), Coup de Grace, Vincent (remember beginners decks are far more likely to be one trick ponies).

I also consider Cahir to be a problem, but the rest? Normal golds which offer decent points for their provisions, just like every other faction's high-end golds.

 

[Fargothwave]

Works just like against every other deck or faction. You're a MO player, right? Remember Kikimore Queen? Losing round one against this deck was almost certainly your end. So you had to BLEED the combo pieces out, otherwise you were pretty much doomed. Exact same thing for NG and every other faction, but you do need to know the cards you want to be gone. That's the whole magic and the "NG players logic of get good". And once again I'm asking the question I almost never get an answer to: How often have you played NG yourself that you can be so sure about the statements you are constantly making about this faction?

Except it's not really easy to win round control against NG. Early on they have a wide array of tools to stop your engines, nuke biggies and gain tempo at the same time, so even if you somehow managed to, you probably don't have any cards to spare for a bleed anymore.

 

[M3e0w]

Except it's not really easy to win round control against NG. Early on they have a wide array of tools to stop your engines, nuke biggies and gain tempo at the same time, so even if you somehow managed to, you probably don't have any cards to spare for a bleed anymore.

Play NG, then tell moe how easy winning round control is with NG.

 

[Fargothwave]

Play NG, then tell moe how easy winning round control is with NG.

I do play a janky assimilate thing with a couple of small twists, and if I ever have any issues with winning R1, it's either a really, really bad hand, greedy MO deck, or opponent deciding to go all-out. Literally no another reason. And out of these, only MO stuff happens often.

 

[Philido]

Except it's not really easy to win round control against NG. Early on they have a wide array of tools to stop your engines, nuke biggies and gain tempo at the same time, so even if you somehow managed to, you probably don't have any cards to spare for a bleed anymore.

NG isn't harder to bleed than other factions. Ball is four points on deploy and this should be your main objective to bleed out. NR will often start with Amphibious Assault or ST with something like Justice/Hamadryad. In fact these are way worse.

 

[Fargothwave]

NG isn't harder to bleed than other factions. Ball is four points on deploy and this should be your main objective to bleed out. NR will often start with Amphibious Assault or ST with something like Justice/Hamadryad. In fact these are way worse.

Again - for any bleed to happen, you must first win R1. Other factions may often be unwilling to commit too hard, precisely because they know that when push comes to shove, NG can whip out several big removals and take the round, despite playing trash units like Magne during it. I also run Lacerate just in case, which kinda solves frigate/treant issues nicely. You don't have to commit as hard as NG, and through this you have a natural advantage early on. Vilgefortz in particular is one hell of a R1 play - catch up in points, ruin their final combo, what's not to love?