Playing Classic RPGs

[username_2093396]

Got to agree with you Ward Dragon, there wasn't much meat on the bones of the wilderness areas in BG1, I suppose that might have been intentional to simulate the "wilderness" aspect but in my mind they could have put a bit more content into them without disturbing that aesthetic. Still there are quite a few interesting points scattered around.

Yes, exactly! Thanks for explaining it better than I did It's a little frustrating because I want to go through the quests more quickly to keep up the pace of the story but my OCD won't let me leave large areas unexplored I wish there was a bit more to find in these places.

 

[secondchildren]

Are you sure you're remembering correctly? I thought Wisdom was the all-important stat in P:T. Wisdom (and sometimes Intelligence) get you a lot more dialogue options, and a high Wisdom gives you a bonus to experience points.

Yes, you're right. For one unknown reason I've mistaken WIS with CHAR. Thanks for pointed it.

Oh, do tell! (Put it under a spoiler tag, please.) I haven't seen this, and I'd love to hear about it.

Spoiler

There should be a line in BG2 while flirting with Jaheira, at the point when Edwin changes his gender, when she reminds that similar thing happens to an unprudent adventurer. I found it odd coz I imported the game from BG1 and accidentally gave the belt to Khalid without identyfing it before. Unfortunately that line occurred only once and never happened again after I cleared my HD, so it is possible that it comes for one of the community mods I installed. I can't say which one unfortunately.

There IS no other game like Planescape: Torment, sadly. Lists of the best stories in games usually have Torment at #1.

Ditto. Torment is magic.

Baldur's Gate is said to have a better story than most RPG's of its era, but you're right that there's a lot of monster-killing in between snippets of story. But it does grow. You start off with "Why does everybody want me dead*" and then start to learn why...

Actually my fav is BG2. I find more interesting in the plot, there's more storytelling and less killkillkill and I ADORE mixing the party companions to hear them talking and see their different reaction to each others. Like the couple Mazzy - Korgan, when he tries with her and she despises. Or those priceless Jan Jansen's lines.

 

[Blothulfur]

"Be aware, Mazzy, I've something long, hard and low to the ground ye're free to touch and fondle. Child, no need to glare! 'Twas me axe I were referring to." If you ask me Korgan was the funniest character in the whole bloody game, going to have to dig out my cd's and have a crack at it again.

 

[Corylea.723]

"Be aware, Mazzy, I've something long, hard and low to the ground ye're free to touch and fondle. Child, no need to glare! 'Twas me axe I were referring to." If you ask me Korgan was the funniest character in the whole bloody game, going to have to dig out my cd's and have a crack at it again.

I don't play evil characters, so I've never had him as a party member, but I'd like to hear more about him. What other things does he say?


Hey, Volsung. How are you doing with your TW1 run? It has to be considered a classic RPG at this point, so it's even on topic.

 

[Blothulfur]

Viconia: Korgan, I'm interested in whether your clan has ever had interaction with House DeVir? It seems to me, if memory serves, that our sphere of influence was quite close to your Bloodaxe clan's stronghold near Talthalra Wern'nt Szithla Har'oloth.
Korgan: Nay speak that vile tongue to me, blackskin. If it moves I've killed it, but if it be drow, I've tortured it fer days, first. As fer that house of yers, I burned it and relieved meself on the embers and the dead. And the necklace of darkelf ears fetched me a king's ransom in Waterdeep.

Korgan: It's been a grand fight, eh mage? Can you better cap a life than with blood betwixt the toes and the flames of hell itself? Ha!
Edwin: Will someone get this bile-soaked freak away from me?!
Korgan: What? No stomach for the cleavings of me axe?
Edwin: I do not fault the need for frontline offense, but I fail to see why you need to sink a blade to your elbows.
Korgan: Bah! Mages! Ye'll blast away from your mother's window but catch your scatter-willies at the thought of blood. It's called follow-through! Feh!

As you can see, a thoroughly charming fellow. There's also a little mutter he does when wandering through wilderness areas, on the subject of trees, elves and daisy eaters, ending with a quiet exhortation to, "burn 'em all." He's so utterly psychotic, that you kind of pity the enemy.

 

[Wyvern.753]

One problem with playing a mage in BG is that the person at the front of the party is the leader and the one who talks to whomever you meet. There are some formations that allow you to put your leader in the middle, but they're pretty unwieldy and only work in situations where there's a LOT of room. So if you play a mage, you'll mostly be in the front lines with your four measly hit points, your no armor, and your lousy weapons skills. />

It's been a while since I played through the BG series, but I do remember you can make any NPC your party leader. Put the tank in first, leave your squishy mage in the back where they belong. It works for merchants too, let the highest charisma NPC do the haggling for you.

 

[Corylea.723]

It's been a while since I played through the BG series, but I do remember you can make any NPC your party leader. Put the tank in first, leave your squishy mage in the back where they belong. It works for merchants too, let the highest charisma NPC do the haggling for you.

Yes, you can, but it just feels wrong.
"Magic is impressive, but now MINSC leads! Swords for EVERYone!"


Thanks for the dialogue samples, Bloth. Yeah, Korgan sounds like a real sweetheart.
I'd kinda like to see what he says, but not enough to play with a person like that in my party. So thanks for sharing.

 

[volsung]

Hey, Volsung. How are you doing with your TW1 run? It has to be considered a classic RPG at this point, so it's even on topic.

I was wondering whether or not to include TW1 in here. I guess you're right! At the very least it is a modern classic.

Well, I just started Chapter 2 and took care of everything I could in the Temple District, leveled up a bit and distributed talents. I know the game pretty well, so I planned my build accordingly to when I would get my silver sword, when I would get to fight monsters in the swamp, etc. So far I found evidence to prove Vivaldi and Vincent non guilty, and ratted out Coleman with the bartender. Found the origin of my silver sword, and gathered some money to buy books that describe Alghouls and Archespores. I'm using a 3 Red Meteorite steel sword that I forged back in chapter 1, but will most likely alternate with Harvall once I get my hands on it. Now that I wrapped up everything I could in the temple district, I headed to the swamp and will take care of a few things there. Plan to at least spend the night, if not two days. Then I'll return tired and wet to the Hairy Bear for a tankard of Kaedwenian Stout and a platter of mutton legs and pork chops.

Been saving up for an Excellent Leather Jacket too. To my knowledge, the only other thing worth buying is Gwalhir in Chapter 4.

Curiously enough, I have powered up Aard as much as possible and managed to defeat the special alghoul and the beast in chapter 1 by decapitation, after stunning them. Impressive! That doesn't mean I didn't die a couple of times before pulling that off! I'm playing on hard, which isn't really that hard unless you get surrounded, just like in TW2.

I told myself I would keep the side quests to a minimum since I am sure I did everything possible in my previous playthroughs and I just wanted to enjoy the main story this time. But they fall so naturally into the game world and are actually so engaging (except probably the witcher contracts, heh) that I cannot resist.

Having a great time with TW1, once again. Let me know if you have any tips. After all, YOU are the expert on TW1

And it's awesome we have another BG convert. While I like both games, the one I keep going back to is BG2. It's not only better than BG1 in every aspect, it's one of the best games ever made.

 

[Corylea.723]

ratted out Coleman with the bartender.

You ratted out Coleman to the bartender! Wow, I've never done that; it never seems to me like something that Geralt would do.

Been saving up for an Excellent Leather Jacket too. To my knowledge, the only other thing worth buying is Gwalhir in Chapter 4.

The Excellent Leather Jacket isn't really worth it. If you have money burning a hole in your pocket, go ahead, but the jacket doesn't actually gain you very much.

Don't forget that you'll need 500 orens to buy Tipperath from Leuvaarden, and unless you're very patient, you'll need 500 orens to buy a rainstorm from the druids. And 50/70 (depending on which blacksmith you use) for a lightning rod, plus money for books (unless you're using my Book of All Knowledge mod).

Curiously enough, I have powered up Aard as much as possible and managed to defeat the special alghoul and the beast in chapter 1 by decapitation, after stunning them. Impressive!

Oh, yeah, powered-up Aard is VERY helpful in the early part of the game. The first time I played on Hard, I was somewhat nervous about facing the Beast at this level, and imagine my surprise when I hit it with a single Aard, which stunned it, and Geralt killed it in one finishing move. Wait, THAT was the Beast fight? One Aard, one blow, done?!

I told myself I would keep the side quests to a minimum since I am sure I did everything possible in my previous playthroughs and I just wanted to enjoy the main story this time. But they fall so naturally into the game world and are actually so engaging (except probably the witcher contracts, heh) that I cannot resist.

I've made a lot of mods for TW1, and of course I have to test them all. When testing, I keep thinking I'm only going to play for ten minutes, just to make sure the mod works, and then get sucked in and look up an hour or two later.

Having a great time with TW1, once again. Let me know if you have any tips.

Well, I doubt I have any tips for someone like you, who knows the game well. You certainly don't need my tips for new witchers, and you're probably aware of most of the things you need to steer clear of.

You may know about this already: when the boy comes to get you and asks you to go see Raymond, go THEN. If you finish certain things before going, you can put the game into an unfinishable condition. (Well, I've made a mod to fix bugged games, but it's much easier not to need the fix in the first place.)

Most of the things I make sure to do when I play TW1 now are just to spare myself annoyance. For example, I make sure to grab Granny's stuff from the larder BEFORE attending Shani's party, because trying to walk anywhere while drunk takes forfuckingever and is really annoying.

For the same reason, I make sure to always have a couple of Wives' Tears potions on hand, so I can stop being drunk as soon as possible after drinking with Odo in Chapter 1, attending Shani's party in Chapter 2, drinking with Dandelion to get the story of his lute out of him in Chapter 3, and so on.

If I remember correctly, you like to play the games as written and use very few mods. Personally, there are a number of mods I wouldn't play without. I always use J_Slash's Stuff that makes Geralt's life easier mod. I don't use the Cat part, and I rarely use the storage part, but I use the meditate-anywhere part when I'm living in Triss' house in Chapter 3. In the vanilla game, you can only meditate at Triss' house by talking to Triss, which means that you can only meditate while she's there. Since she's at Leuvaarden's party from 6 p.m. till 2 a.m., that means that there's a LOT of time when she's unavailable. And since I'm living there, it seems crazy to me that I'm not allowed to rest unless Triss is home. But J_Slash to the rescue!

I also use some bugfixes that I've made:
1. Have your Han plants give you Han, not Berbercane
2. Fair Kalkstein

Then there are the annoyance-fixing mods:
1. Stop the Rain, because the constant rain was wonderfully atmospheric for the first two runs, and after that it got annoying.
2. Teleportation Scrolls for the Swamp and Temple Quarter, because running back and forth and back and forth and BACK AND FORTH made me reluctant to re-play Chapter 2.
3. No Drowners in the Chapter 5 Swamp, because by that point in the game, they're worth zero experience, aren't any threat, and are only a large annoyance
4. Sex Takes Time mod, because having sex in the street and having no time pass always breaks immersion for me.

You probably won't want most of these, since you seem more impervious to annoyances than I am.

And it's awesome we have another BG convert. While I like both games, the one I keep going back to is BG2. It's not only better than BG1 in every aspect, it's one of the best games ever made.

It's a lovely game! I need to finish my run through it. My husband gave me a new game for Christmas and is eager to have me play it, but maybe I'll sneak in a little time for BG2. In between working on my own game and being sick, of course.

 

[secondchildren]

LOL
After reading volsung last post, I'm having this weird idea where you could play TW1 like BG and assorted your party with all you fave characters: Zoltan, Thaler, Siegfried and Carmen, the Granny.... dreamy!

I don't play evil characters, so I've never had him as a party member, but I'd like to hear more about him.

Korgan is just awesome. But it mostly depend on the assortment of companions you get. My fav party is with:

-Jansen
-Korgan
-Viconia
-Mazzy
-Edwin
-Minsc or Imoen

Sometimes Keldorn.

Another funny shenenigan you get between Aerie and Edwin. Because the mage is a looney and speak with "the other" Edwin... which is himself.
And also like to watch Viconia and Jaheira quarrelling.

 

[cyberarmy.603]

Korgan's banter with Jan Jansen is just top notch hilarious!
Also love Korgans general mood, bloodthirsty dwarven berserker i like!
And there is Korgan vs. Imoen banter

 

[Guest 2091327]

All this BG talk makes me want to go back to it again. I did have an inkling to play as a pure mage (though it would be rather similar to my last run as mage/thief multi).

I think both games are great, and offer different types of gameplay and design - at least to some extent. Don't think this is very common, but I actually liked the story arc in BG1 better than BG2, though I shouldn't of course go deeper into this without heavy spoiler tags. I'm more interested in replaying BG2 than BG1 though, because I've gone through 1 two times (plus at least 2 halves), while only played 1 full time through BG2. Both games are gigantic, especially when you include the expansion. By today's standards, each game would probably be 3 games.

Maybe you're already doing it as you say you like to clear out maps, but I do recommend to do some side quests too and not just follow the main story line.

When I go through BG2 again, I think Jan Jansen has to be included. He sounds really funny, and although I usually play with good-two-shoes characters, maybe it's worth an exception just to experience some of the other people in the game. It would be a bit weird to have an evil-ish party carrying out good deeds, but oh well.

 

[Corylea.723]

I see that GOG.com is having a sale on Neverwinter Nights 2. I have NWN1, but I didn't buy NWN2 when it came out because I'd heard it wasn't very good. But I'd trust Volsung's, Secondchildren's, and Blothulfur's opinions over that of any "professional" reviewer.

So, NWN2. Whatcha think?

 

[username_2093396]

I see that GOG.com is having a sale on Neverwinter Nights 2. I have NWN1, but I didn't buy NWN2 when it came out because I'd heard it wasn't very good. But I'd trust Volsung's, Secondchildren's, and Blothulfur's opinions over that of any "professional" reviewer.

So, NWN2. Whatcha think?

I'd also be interested to hear what people say

I couldn't get into the first Neverwinter Nights game (I made it up to the beginning of act 2 and really wasn't enjoying the blandness -- it felt like I was just going through the motions of playing without actually enjoying anything). I've heard that some of the follow-ups were better, but I don't know which ones are good or in what ways they are supposed to be better, so I'm curious what everyone here thinks

 

[volsung]

You ratted out Coleman to the bartender! Wow, I've never done that; it never seems to me like something that Geralt would do.

Yeah I know... I'm just trying to do the things I never did before. I think I might even... *gulp* side with the Order. This is a highly non-canon playthrough. This Geralt is badly messed up and is simply wreaking chaos in the kingdoms.

The Excellent Leather Jacket isn't really worth it. If you have money burning a hole in your pocket, go ahead, but the jacket doesn't actually gain you very much.

I remember it being the only reasonable armor upgrade apart from Raven's armor, but yeah maybe it's not even worth it.

Don't forget that you'll need 500 orens to buy Tipperath from Leuvaarden, and unless you're very patient, you'll need 500 orens to buy a rainstorm from the druids. And 50/70 (depending on which blacksmith you use) for a lightning rod, plus money for books (unless you're using my Book of All Knowledge mod).

Ah, yes. I think I will use your Fair Kalkstein mod this time.

Most of the things I make sure to do when I play TW1 now are just to spare myself annoyance. For example, I make sure to grab Granny's stuff from the larder BEFORE attending Shani's party, because trying to walk anywhere while drunk takes forfuckingever and is really annoying.

For the same reason, I make sure to always have a couple of Wives' Tears potions on hand, so I can stop being drunk as soon as possible after drinking with Odo in Chapter 1, attending Shani's party in Chapter 2, drinking with Dandelion to get the story of his lute out of him in Chapter 3, and so on.

I usually do the same with the old lady. I just pick up the pickles, liquor, diary, etc. as soon as I manage to get in. Good tip with the wives tears! I usually sleep until sober.

3. No Drowners in the Chapter 5 Swamp, because by that point in the game, they're worth zero experience, aren't any threat, and are only a large annoyance

And I think I'll use this too. Have you used any hi-def textures and hi-res characters?

You probably won't want most of these, since you seem more impervious to annoyances than I am.

If I plan accordingly I don't mind traveling to and from the swamp taking boat rides and using the teleportation stone. In Chapter 3 with the portal it is a lot easier. I also don't mind the rain and other issues. In BG, I don't even mind the inventory as it is and not being able to stack more than 40 arrows. So I suppose you are right

My husband gave me a new game for Christmas and is eager to have me play it, but maybe I'll sneak in a little time for BG2.

What was it? I remember reading something about Kingdoms of Amalur? What do you think about it?

LOL
After reading volsung last post, I'm having this weird idea where you could play TW1 like BG and assorted your party with all you fave characters: Zoltan, Thaler, Siegfried and Carmen, the Granny.... dreamy!

That is just so funny! If TW1 was party-based, I'd choose:

Geralt (damager/alchemist, monster expert), Zoltan (resilient warrior), Triss (sorceress, duh), Yaevinn (archer), Shani (healer) and Dandelion (jack-of-all-trades, rogue/bard).

I see that GOG.com is having a sale on Neverwinter Nights 2. I have NWN1, but I didn't buy NWN2 when it came out because I'd heard it wasn't very good. But I'd trust Volsung's, Secondchildren's, and Blothulfur's opinions over that of any "professional" reviewer.

So, NWN2. Whatcha think?

I played the original NWN when it came out in 2002. Unimpressed, I skipped NWN2. However I decided to go ahead and got it from GOG a couple of days ago. According to Blothulfur, the expansion Mask of the Betrayer is worth the time and effort just by itself. I don't think the base game can be blander than the first, so at least it will be a decent implementation of 3.5E with relatively nice graphics and gameplay. I'll be playing it sometime soon, when I can!

 

[secondchildren]

DON'T EVEN TOUCH IT!

Seriously gals...... Neverwinter Nights 2 is pure shit. It's been a flop, badly acclaimed by the community. The story is messy and companions dull. Not worthy at all.
Only new classes and races are ok. Instead, if you're still intered in NWN2 I suggest you to play the first expansion, Mask of the Betrayer, which is waaaaay better than OC. I don't even know why they did such a crappy mess in it.

Or another good story is the second expansion of NWN, Hordes of the Underdark.

PS: my humble opinion of course

 

[Corylea.723]

Yeah I know... I'm just trying to do the things I never did before.

So what happens if you rat Coleman out? Any repercussions, or just a quest update?

I think I might even... *gulp* side with the Order.

You have a stronger stomach than I do.

Have you used any hi-def textures and hi-res characters?

No, I haven't. Hi-def textures are wasted on my aged eyes, but your young eyes might see a difference. Do try it out and report back!

If I plan accordingly I don't mind traveling to and from the swamp taking boat rides and using the teleportation stone. In Chapter 3 with the portal it is a lot easier. I also don't mind the rain and other issues. In BG, I don't even mind the inventory as it is and not being able to stack more than 40 arrows. So I suppose you are right

I do have a reason for my opinion, yes.

What was it? I remember reading something about Kingdoms of Amalur? What do you think about it?

I'm not very far into it yet. The opening sequence features the player's dead body being pushed into the morgue on a cart ... sound familiar? I don't know if that was homage or rip-off.

So far, the story seems relatively generic, and parts of it seem not very logical. The player is the one and only person that researchers have managed to raise from the dead after many years of effort. The bad guys find out about the research and come in to destroy everything. The head researcher says that the equipment he used to raise the dead is unimportant, but YOU must escape at all costs, since you're his only proof that the process works. But you're just one more person; once you leave the facility, there's no proof that you've been raised from the dead.

I'd say the person who should escape at all costs is the RESEARCHER who's finally perfected the process of raising soldiers from the dead to fight again. But only people like me think it would be fun to play a biological researcher; most players want combat.

It's over-the-shoulder view but doesn't make me motion sick. I still miss my favorite isometric view -- I can't SEE anything from down here -- but at least it doesn't make me ill.

I seem to see all of the strings that are being pulled to make the player dance more than I've done in previous games. I don't know if the game is actually a bit heavy-handed, or if being involved in making my own game has made me look behind the curtain a bit more when playing games.

Anyway, I'm not very far into it yet, and it may either improve or deteriorate. Right now, I'd say it's solid but not remarkable.

That is just so funny! If TW1 was party-based, I'd choose:

Geralt (damager/alchemist, monster expert), Zoltan (resilient warrior), Triss (sorceress, duh), Yaevinn (archer), Shani (healer) and Dandelion (jack-of-all-trades, rogue/bard).

I'm not sure that Dandelion is actually good for very much, but it doesn't seem that one could have The Witcher without him.

I played the original NWN when it came out in 2002. Unimpressed, I skipped NWN2. However I decided to go ahead and got it from GOG a couple of days ago. According to Blothulfur, the expansion Mask of the Betrayer is worth the time and effort just by itself. I don't think the base game can be blander than the first, so at least it will be a decent implementation of 3.5E with relatively nice graphics and gameplay. I'll be playing it sometime soon, when I can!

I've heard good things about "Mask of the Betrayer," and it may be from Bloth that I heard them. One thing I don't have any clue about is how long MotB is. If it's 20 hours long, then it might be worth it to buy NWN2 just to play MotB. If it's 2 hours long, it's probably not. Anybody know?

DON'T EVEN TOUCH IT!

Ah, lady, I've missed your fire and your passion.

Instead, if you're still intered in NWN2 I suggest you to play the first expansion, Mask of the Betrayer, which is waaaaay better than OC. I don't even know why they did such a crappy mess in it.

But one needs NWN2 to play the expansion, correct? So, how good IS "Mask of the Betrayer"? Worth buying the main game for?

 

[volsung]

Feargus Urquhart on Mask of the Betrayer:

"And, the sum of all those features and the new story that we are crafting for the expansion is going to be about 15 to 20 hours of gameplay."

From: http://www.computerandvideogames.com/165715/interviews/neverwinter-nights-2-mask-of-the-betrayer/

I usually get more hours than the developers expect. I sure take my time and explore. And as far as I know the expansions are not standalone. They weren't in the first NWN.

Also SecondChildren, remember Neverwinter Nights (the first and I assume the second) is more of a computer Dungeons & Dragons engine/implementation than a video game. What made NWN so big were the community adventures, not the main "game".

 

[M4xw0lf.978]

Weell, NWN2 isn't all that bad... but not as good as other obsidian games. Plus it had the really evil sort of bugs at release (had preordered it) - plotstoppers. It has good length and i love the rebuilding of the player-stronghold, but the story is rather lacking, which is unusual for an obsidian game. I heard that MotB did things a lot better, but i never bought it... I guess now is a good time - gog is robbing me once more

 

[CoronerZg]

Indeed, secondchildren is right. Nwn2 OC is just bad. There are few fun
moments, but most of the time you just want to gouge your eyes out.
Mask Of The Betrayer on the other hand is very good... homage to
Planescape i'd say, with a little bit of Princess Mononoke in it.
And MotB is definitely worth your money, cause it's very replayable
with different companions (and alignment).