Which is another way of just saying, "I hate the story."
Which is cool but it's a bit like saying, "How about Dragon Age: Origins without this Grey Warden thing."
Which is another way of just saying, "I hate the story."
Which is cool but it's a bit like saying, "How about Dragon Age: Origins without this Grey Warden thing."
Jackie will drag you along in this case
....assuming V survives saying 'no' to Dex....
I could say that could be interesting and the most important choice of the game indeed
If V said "no" to dex > V get out the car > Credits > One more GIG > Back to Night City > And doing GIGs because because there is no other thing left to do without a story.
Nah, I don’t ”hate” the current storyline, I just don’t think it’s very good. There's plenty of stories to tell in Night City without the chip, and V’s driving force was (at least initially) to make a name of himself. Plenty of ways to achieve that.
You have the ”whole” city (even if compressed) at your hands. DaO mostly only has the storyrelevant parts of its world shown.
Is it not implied something else would be substituted in for the story? The alternative would be like interpreting "I didn't like the ending of the movie" as "I don't like the fact the movie had an ending".
Like TW2? Sounds nice, but I don't think we'll see two separate stories inside one game anytime soon. Not in the open world game, at least.
I talk about with "the state" of the game, now. If you want to have an option to say "No" to Dex, CDPR have to re-write a whole new story. Because actually, the story depend entirely of the fail of "the heist".
It a bit the same than those who want 3 lifepaths with 3 different stories, that's sound impossible for me (even with paid DLC).
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But now that I think about it, it might be interesting to even be able to "skip" the main quests with the consequences that go with them.
Few example :
- If V said "no" to Dex > End credits.
- If V think it's not useful to search Evy > No VooDoo Boys and obviously no Alt > Hanako said she doesn't know how to do without a new version of SoulKiller > V dies miserably > End credits.
- If V think Goro is not useful > V never meet Hanako and V don't know where find Mikoshi > V dies miserably > End credits.
- If V think Johnny is an asshole > V don't talk to him at all, even try to understand him and work things out > Johnny definitely takes control of V's body (during a crisis) > End credits.
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Cool, we're on the same page. My question is, isn't the second part here implied?
Yeah, the LP criticism certainly does have something in common with suggesting the player should be able to say no to Dex. Well, intepretations of both have something in common anyway.
Admittedly, conclusions are being drawn. My better judgement dictates some are better left unsaid.
The problem with the suggestions is that they fundamentally undermine the story themes of the game. V doesnt matter, the world doesnt revolve around them. Even with all the crazy stuff you go through, the world just keeps on ticking. At most V accomplishes annoying Arasaka a bit with the destruction of mikoshi but everything else? Probably didnt even matter enough to be written down.
Some of the points raised being the way they are is what makes the game good for me. Since the world isnt revolving around V and their actions I find it easier to sympathize with them. Being powerless in the grand scheme of things is pretty much one of the more common themes of cyberpunk.
The cyberpsycho thing is probably one of the things that cdpr werent allowed to explain. It's a mystery that have been a part of the role playing games for decades and it would have been really wierd for a central part of the p&p to be answered in a video game. I think they like to keep it vague on purpose in any case
Some of the points raised being the way they are is what makes the game good for me. Since the world isnt revolving around V and their actions I find it easier to sympathize with them. Being powerless in the grand scheme of things is pretty much one of the more common themes of cyberpunk.
The cyberpsycho thing is probably one of the things that cdpr werent allowed to explain. It's a mystery that have been a part of the role playing games for decades and it would have been really wierd for a central part of the p&p to be answered in a video game. I think they like to keep it vague on purpose in any case
While it can sometimes be fun to discuss how we wish the story played out, I enjoy thinking about what the writers were trying to tell with their story. For example, people mentioned how they wish they could get vengeance on Dex, but I liked how the writers handled his story. He was essentially this guy that tried to do everything he could to avoid death (even went into hiding for a while prior to the story) to the point that he kills you in order to bargain for his life, but that is what ironically gets him killed.
Or Evelyn, I can understand why a lot of people wish there was a way to save her life, and on some level, I wish it were possible (because what happens to her is such a tragedy), but her story is a part of Judy's progression as a character. Additionally, Evelyn's desire to climb to the top of Night City, only to succumb to the dangers, is seemingly there to strengthen the theme that the promise of opportunity in Night City is out-of-reach for most people.
Another example is Yorinobu. He's written to make it seem as if he's the primary antagonist of the story, but because you don't really meet him, you never really understand his side. However, if you do the devil ending, you see how his tragic tale ends, which is terrifying.
I personally like that the story deals with loss, emptiness, futility, and so on, where Night City is seemingly a metaphor for false hope.
Or Evelyn, I can understand why a lot of people wish there was a way to save her life, and on some level, I wish it were possible (because what happens to her is such a tragedy), but her story is a part of Judy's progression as a character. Additionally, Evelyn's desire to climb to the top of Night City, only to succumb to the dangers, is seemingly there to strengthen the theme that the promise of opportunity in Night City is out-of-reach for most people.
Another example is Yorinobu. He's written to make it seem as if he's the primary antagonist of the story, but because you don't really meet him, you never really understand his side. However, if you do the devil ending, you see how his tragic tale ends, which is terrifying.
I personally like that the story deals with loss, emptiness, futility, and so on, where Night City is seemingly a metaphor for false hope.
The city of dreams !
But at some point you have to wake up and it can be painful...
I think I said in my review that as nice as having such a big choice was, it was also a seemingly inconsequential choice (help Iorveth or Roche) that kept you from playing the full game in one go.
So, I suppose it's a case of no way to really win for CDPR.
Absolutely couldn't agree more. My favorite feature of this game is the columbarium. A place to pay your respects to the dead and I hope they use this place more often in future stories.
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It's a short game, so playing it twice shouldn't really be a problem, but you're right about "seemingly inconsequential" part. I know people in real life who played the game only once and didn't even know the other path existed until I told them about it.
It's crazy how much of what game has to offer is easy to miss.
The problem is what makes a good story is not necessarily what makes a good game. The inability to kill Dex is something that causes a sense of meandering in the middle of the game as well as third act because there is no one to focus your anger on as a character. It might be "the point" but it's not really a point that makes the game story resonate more. Dex is a character that gets a lot of build-up and all of that build-up is wasted when it could have been used.
The problem with the Evelyn matter is the fact the game outright forces you to ignore what is an option in game. Sandra Dorsett is found later in the game with some issues but mostly fine due to the fact that she had her memory cleansed by the Trauma Team. The lore established that you can buy temporary policies for healing. You could have established Evelyn as already dead or irrepairable but the game wanted to maximize angst and thus you just leave her alone to commit suicide.
In simple terms, the game is heavily on the rails and your inability to affect anything goes beyond what previous games in teh Witcher allowed you to do. The previous games allowed you the chance to save or kill individual characters like Keira, side with different factions, and more. They can't affect the main story save in the very end but they have impacts that made the games feel for stronger for it.
Re: Cyberpsychos
Actually, they completely change it as the point of the Cyberpsycho quest is that it doesn't work remotely like it did in the game world. They also changed it for Cyberpunk Red.
You make a great argument I'm surprised the developers didn't include methods to tell stories by not only receiving a call but told your mission from an npc while your both on bikes on the way to your destination. The video below is cheesy but would have worked great as a nomad or streetkid within Night City. Mini games and street fights
I could agree for Dex, for those who want a revenge. For me, it's not really necessary, he is just a poor guy who want to save his "large" skin
But compare Evy to Sandra is not really appropriate for few reasons in my opinion
- Money
Sandra is a "high corpo" and has a "platinum" trauma team subscription (the best I think). Evy is nobody, has no money. And even if V gives her some, I don't think you can go and request a Trauma membership like you would order a hotdog.
- The trauma
Sandra has been captured, hacked and stored while waiting to be "dismantled" (a bit like V in Sweet Dreams). Evy was abused for 3 days by Woodman without being able to react but being conscious. Then "exploited" by Scavs in the sordid basement of a factory (for I do not know what horrible and still being conscious).
- The reason of her suicide (the most important for me)
We don't really know why she committed suicide. Whether it's because of the trauma or if it's because she realized that she was responsible for the disaster (and the deaths), for putting Judy in danger and her dream of leaving Night City with Judy is simply dead. If that's it, I'm not sure a simple memory wipe (like Sandra) is really effective.
So to say, V can pay for save Evy (like Sandra), seem pretty "simpliste" for me
I could agree for Dex, for those who want a revenge. For me, it's not really necessary, he is just a poor guy who want to save his "large" skin
But compare Evy to Sandra is not really appropriate for few reasons in my opinion
- Money
Sandra is a "high corpo" and has a "platinum" trauma team subscription (the best I think). Evy is nobody, has no money. And even if V gives her some, I don't think you can go and request a Trauma membership like you would order a hotdog.
- The trauma
Sandra has been captured, hacked and stored while waiting to be "dismantled" (a bit like V in Sweet Dreams). Evy was abused for 3 days by Woodman without being able to react but being conscious. Then "exploited" by Scavs in the sordid basement of a factory (for I do not know what horrible and still being conscious).
- The reason of her suicide (the most important for me)
We don't really know why she committed suicide. Whether it's because of the trauma or if it's because she realized that she was responsible for the disaster (and the deaths), for putting Judy in danger and her dream of leaving Night City with Judy is simply dead. If that's it, I'm not sure a simple memory wipe (like Sandra) is really effective.
So to say, V can pay for save Evy (like Sandra), seem pretty "simpliste" for me
There's very little to spend money on in this game that matters other than hordes of cars. If you can get her brain fixed for 20K then that would be a pretty decent way of spending your money.
Huge numbers of players paid Vic back after all.
But getting back with Dex, I suppose my issue is that too much of the game is devoted to, "V saves themselves." There's really not much depth to that story beyond wanting to live and giving them other things they're concerned about doing before they die would have helped broaden the story. V never accepts they're going to die so there's little effort to "settle accounts" like the way Arthur Morgan does.
* Making sure Vic, Misty, and Mama Jackie are cared for.
* Killing all their old enemies.
* doing something good with their little time left like funding the V orphanage or whatever
I feel like these things would have helped.
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Trauma Team
It's not cheap, but yes V can paid for that at some point
But, like I said, the most important for me, that it could be impossible to simply "repair" her mind. You can't "repair" the feeling of guilt, the lack of desire to live, the despair even with a million of eddies
But it's just my opinion, it seem not to be the same "problem" than Sandra where simply "wipe" the bad period is good enough.
Trauma Team
It's not cheap, but yes V can paid for that at some point
But, like I said, the most important for me, that it could be impossible to simply "repair" her mind. You can't "repair" the feeling of guilt, the lack of desire to live, the despair even with a million of eddies
But it's just my opinion, it seem not to be the same "problem" than Sandra where simply "wipe" the bad period is good enough.
I dunno, if you wipe everything from Evie's memory back to where she was alive and well, she should be fine. Sandra shows its not 100% effective anyway.
But in-story, I just support it because it gives V more agency. As tragic as the story is, the game feels like you can't do much even when you could and I feel that lessens it's effectiveness as a game.
That's why I think it's a missed opportunity. I will say that Evie's tragic death is a major part of Judy's development as a character.