Why missing Cinematic/3rd person Cutscenes is THE biggest flaw

[Spectral_Warrior]

I would've liked more 3D cutscenes, because I really liked the ending cutscene where we could finally see our V. As style I also liked the intro cutscene (but not gameplay wise)
I also do not really feel loss of experience if I was able to play or see more in TPP compared to FPP.

However I cannot really call it as big of a flaw per se. Its a missed oppertunity in certain situations where we could get to see V's bodily /facial reactions but sadly we didn't.

However CP77 has some other issues much more important to be adressed before this one

 

[lostlogic]

I'd love to see more 3rd person cut-scenes. As others have mentioned, the connection to V is important and only seeing V when in the inventory and at some of the endings is a bit strange. Before that might happen, I really hope they revamp / change the way clothes and armor work in the game so we can choose our look without worrying about the stats etc. Seeing my character in 3rd person as it is now... Would make for some fun but at times jarring experiences, heh.

I get the idea that you get to experience everything from V's point of view, but the point of getting to customize your character is to make them your unique character. It's a shame that we don't get to see ourselves more.
It will take a lot of effort and work to get there, and we might get it down the line. I for one hope they will add more cinematic cutscenes. It might be that they didn't quite get the cutscene animation system down in time for the release and had to cut back on it 6 months prior (or more).

It was however very cool to see the E3 2019 trailer. I'd completely stayed away from all trailers after the first announcement at e3 2018 just to protect myself from spoilers, and I guess that might be the reason why I've been so happy with CP2077 and enjoyed it as much as I have (and still do). Not sure how I feel about the change of the story however. T-Bug betraying you instead of getting zapped for instance would further cement the setting of "everyone is only looking out for themselves" kinda like. And it also explains why T-Bug is so evasive when asked about her previous relation to Dex.

 

[Fuse_00]

I seriously dont understand how anyone can see lack of 3D cutscenes as a 'flaw'. 3D cutscenes in 1st person games totally ruin the immersion and i wish more developers would realize that.

I agree with that. I personally prefer 3rd person camera, but in case the game is 1st person, it should be 1st person entirely. I hated this jumping camera in Deus Ex, constantly switching between 1st and 3rd person.

However, there is another aspect of that. In case the game is 1st person, it doesn't mean that there is enough to make a flying camera as protagonist. It still requires an animations. Imo Cyberpunk could do better on this aspect. I wish there be more animated actions, like sitting on the chair of ripperdoc, pushing the buttons, opening the doors and boxes, using computers.
Cyberpunk is not the worst example, it has some animations at least, but the best example so far is Kingdom Come Deliverance, where every action of protagonist has the proper animation for it. That is what brings immersion to 1st person view, at least for me.

 

[Audie_Carpenter]

I dont get how the lack of cut scenes would be considered as the biggest flaw in the game.

 

[iCake]

I just love how CDPR decided to go with cutscene presentation. IMO, movie like cuts have gotten really old, not that I particulary mind them, but having seen how CDPR did it, I just LOVE it. The only nit-pick I have here is that sometimes I catch myself thinking that body language should be used a little bit more, like seeing your character gesture when they speak, maybe lean forward a little when they yell, pace back and forth a little when giving a long speech etc, when you don't see these body language gestures you start to feel a little like you're just a floating talking camera rather than a person. It felt like that in a bad way to me in the Mama Welles - Jackie Welles related cut scene when you're giving a speech in front of "guests". I felt as if I was a statue there, to put it lightly. Overall though, I love FPV cutscenes, in this game at least.

 

[taiwanluthiers]

I think that cutting out cinematic cutscenes is one of, if not THE biggest issue I have with cyberpunk 2077.
Why you might ask?
Well, lets just compare two scenes of actual ingame footage and the cinematic we got back in 2019.
If you havent already progressed to “The Heist”- Mission ingame and never seen the E3 2019 trailer displaying that mission, the following does contain heavy story spoilers! If you do not want to see these spoilers, scroll past that video link and read on.

If you don’t remeber the E3 gameplay, here’s a very good video (not mine) which shows ingame- and trailer footage side by side :

-SPOILER BEGINNING!-

-SPOILER END-

Now that’s a huge difference, right? No, I don’t mean the graphics, which are obiviously cgi in the trailer, I mean the emotions that those scenes trigger. Many players have a hard time connecting to “their” V and there’s a simple reason for this. To really engage to a fictional character, we need to see their emotional reactions to build that empathy needed to feel with them.
In the trailer you can see the anger, sadness and desperation in Vs eyes, whereas in the final game we’re just a pack of floating eyeballs.

Sure, the scene is still very emotional, but seeing our main character reacting to the unfortunate events would really help us bond with him/her.
Take the mass effect trilogy for example (or any other movie/game considered “great”): We feel so attached to the main character because we can actually SEE what he/she’s going through and after a certain time we can actually immerse into their view. Also no one minds seeing their hand-made character pulling of some badass moves.

While first person view really suits this game during acutal gameplay, the missed opportunity of telling this absolutely great story in a cinematic and engaging way always leaves a feeling of well....disappointment.

A few things:

NO FREAKING WAY any desktop graphics card can ever render anything like the trailer video. You'd need a supercomputer days to render a 30 second scene. But enough about graphics:

I suspect that there are difficulties doing such fast moving scenes in third person, that even were the trailer scene done exactly like the trailer but with desktop graphics card, it wouldn't have the same impact and will play like a flip book on most but the best PC out there. You can't sell games when RTX 3080 and i9 10000 series are the minimum system requirement (and forget last gen console compatibility).

CDPR probably had to make some hard choices to make the game playable but still present the story the best they could, given the amount of time they had, and the resources they had.

Just imagine that same scene, rendered exactly like the trailer (I bet some modder could mod this, the assets are there), and see how much emotional impact it would have. I challenge any modder to try it.

Note they changed a few things, but I seriously do not think Johnny Silverhand was just shoehorned into the story. It was there in Cyberpunk 2020 and I seriously doubt they called Keanu Reeves in 2019 to record a bunch of lines because of a plot change. One thing I noticed is that T bug was in the hotel room and she hacked V so Dexter could finish him off. So perhaps they made the decision to kill off T bug during Konpeki Plaza so players don't think badly of her, as many players have grown fond of her as well. So I think if the game had retained the E3 trailer's story of T bug helping to kill V I think more players would be mad.

My impression of Cyberpunk 2077 has been good, but I never seen any of the trailers, nor have I heard any of the hypes. The very first time I heard of Cyberpunk 2077 was actually watching this video:

Yea, a video from Kurtzgesagt about uploading minds... obviously CDPR paid them to make videos like this.

My first impression was CP2077 was a MMORPG so I didn't pay any mind, but then when I read about all the bugs and stuff I decided to give it a go, again with minimal expectation.

So far it's a game I really could not put down. I played Witcher 2 and 3 and it was a struggle for me to continue playing it, for some reason the story just wasn't doing it for me. But CP2077 really did it.

Good job, CDPR.

 

[Spectral_Warrior]

I completely stayed away from all trailers after the first announcement at e3 2018 just to protect myself from spoilers, and I guess that might be the reason why I've been so happy with CP2077 and enjoyed it as much as I have (and still do).

The same applies to me. Neither did I know anything about the game beyond a screenshot at some point.
Not to say I do not recognize there are issues, but I havent had the experience (nor disgust) many have had.

 

[iCake]

The same applies to me. Neither did I know anything about the game beyond a screenshot at some point.
Not to say I do not recognize there are issues, but I havent had the experience (nor disgust) many have had.

That's the way to go, the way I see it. I remember getting so hyped about Assassin's Creed 2 and bo oh boy, the bitter taste of disappointment when I finally got my hands on it. That was lesson enough for me, let others ride on that hype train

 

[Solidus2kill]

I think that cutting out cinematic cutscenes is one of, if not THE biggest issue I have with cyberpunk 2077.
Why you might ask?
Well, lets just compare two scenes of actual ingame footage and the cinematic we got back in 2019.
If you havent already progressed to “The Heist”- Mission ingame and never seen the E3 2019 trailer displaying that mission, the following does contain heavy story spoilers! If you do not want to see these spoilers, scroll past that video link and read on.

If you don’t remeber the E3 gameplay, here’s a very good video (not mine) which shows ingame- and trailer footage side by side :

-SPOILER BEGINNING!-

-SPOILER END-

Now that’s a huge difference, right? No, I don’t mean the graphics, which are obiviously cgi in the trailer, I mean the emotions that those scenes trigger. Many players have a hard time connecting to “their” V and there’s a simple reason for this. To really engage to a fictional character, we need to see their emotional reactions to build that empathy needed to feel with them.
In the trailer you can see the anger, sadness and desperation in Vs eyes, whereas in the final game we’re just a pack of floating eyeballs.

Sure, the scene is still very emotional, but seeing our main character reacting to the unfortunate events would really help us bond with him/her.
Take the mass effect trilogy for example (or any other movie/game considered “great”): We feel so attached to the main character because we can actually SEE what he/she’s going through and after a certain time we can actually immerse into their view. Also no one minds seeing their hand-made character pulling of some badass moves.

While first person view really suits this game during acutal gameplay, the missed opportunity of telling this absolutely great story in a cinematic and engaging way always leaves a feeling of well....disappointment.

you are seriously comparing a CGI CINEMATIC with the graphics in game? damn the problem is not the SH but you, the consumers like you.

 

[Cheylus]

"Cinematic cutscenes" are alright in 1st person, I liked it most of the time. There are excellent and engaging dialogue scenes.

But they didn't go 100% 1st person, the UI really is a 3rd person UI, the minimap is really distracting. They clearly didn't manage to make 1st person driving a thing, since nobody wants to drive like that (it's barely playable due to the interior design of some cars and the driving itself). Combat doesn't work very well too: you have a game that is generally beautiful to look at, with excellent and detailed character and weapon models, but the screen is so polluted (green, red filters of quickhacks for instance) and the action is so fast that you don't have the pleasure to really experience it.

Overall, I think 1st person was a good bet, but they didn't manage to make it work, to make it fully immersive and memorable.

Not mentionning V's shadow (or reflection), of course.

 

[BullTheDozer.]

If you have both, none of them works perfectly. I think the game has so much interaction (and animations) in first-person view that it would be almost impossible to switch to third-person view on the fly without making what you see ridiculous.

Bethesda doesn't seem to have a problem with it.

 

[Kadayi]

I liked the first-person approach. Way more immersive.

 

[Bukary77]

Bethesda doesn't seem to have a problem with it.

I would not say that both views (first-person and third-person) are equally well done in Bethesda games.

Besides, Bethesda games do not have the same level of first-person view interactions as CP2077 does. Many situations in the game (interactions with the world, objects, other people) and some actions are created with FPV in mind and would not work as well in TPV.

Do you think that bonfire with Panam would be as emotionally engaging (looking at the stars, hugging) in TPV as it was in FPV? Would you be able to use all the interfaces in the game (e.g. computer screens) in TPV? Would the scenes with V spitting blood on his/her hands would look as good in TPV? Would you be able to participate in braindance in TPV?

Etc.

And, for me, frequent changing between different POVs would ruin immersion.

Can you imagine e.g. "Dishonored" in third-person view? It would be a completely different game. It's the same case here.

 

[Mentos3]

If you have both, none of them works perfectly. I think the game has so much interaction (and animations) in first-person view that it would be almost impossible to switch to third-person view on the fly without making what you see ridiculous.

But FP-only don't work, either. Just have to take a look on V's shadows. The whole "puppet" is messed up. In 3rd person V could be a main monsterfigure in RE:Village, without changing his/her clothes.

I'm wondering if the decision for FP-only was a creative one, like they said.
Or if they run into technical problems (new halfbaked engine) and/or recognized that they never ever could make cutscenes and animations in time. It's the cheaper and less time consuming solution, that's for sure. And saving time was the main prio, in exchange for quality. It's a steady message in the whole game.

 

[BullTheDozer.]

I would not say that both views (first-person and third-person) are equally well done in Bethesda games.

Besides, Bethesda games do not have the same level of first-person view interactions as CP2077 does. Many situations in the game (interactions with the world, objects, other people) and some actions are created with FPV in mind and would not work as well in TPV.

Do you think that bonfire with Panam would be as emotionally engaging (looking at the stars, hugging) in TPV as it was in FPV? Would you be able to use all the interfaces in the game (e.g. computer screens) in TPV? Would the scenes with V spitting blood on his/her hands would look as good in TPV? Would you be able to participate in braindance in TPV?

Etc.

And, for me, frequent changing between different POVs would ruin immersion.

Can you imagine e.g. "Dishonored" in third-person view? It would be a completely different game. It's the same case here.

I disagree fallout 4 looks amazing for it's time. not to say Bethesda's a paragon of video game Construction. But the 3rd person view is pretty well animated especially for Betheseda. Of course 76 is a bad example. But my point is it's not an Impossible or lofty possibility for a game. People bring up how hard it is to code all these things but a ton of games succeeded in these coding endeavors. The people at CDPR are coders they code games for a living. And it's not there first game.

 

[taiwanluthiers]

I disagree fallout 4 looks amazing for it's time. not to say Bethesda's a paragon of video game Construction. But the 3rd person view is pretty well animated especially for Betheseda. Of course 76 is a bad example. But my point is it's not an Impossible or lofty possibility for a game. People bring up how hard it is to code all these things but a ton of games succeeded in these coding endeavors. The people at CDPR are coders they code games for a living. And it's not there first game.

Fact is if they want multiplayer to be a reality, they MUST fix the third person issue.

 

[GVArcian]

However I cannot really call it as big of a flaw per se.

I mean, you literally called it the "BIGGEST FLAW" in the thread title...

I do agree with your point, a third person perspective option would be very welcome. And I mean an option, first person perspective has its strengths and drawbacks, same as third person, so having both available to switch between seamlessly would be for the game's benefit, in my humble opinion.

Post automatically merged: Feb 11, 2021

I liked the first-person approach. Way more immersive.

It's immersive in the sense that you get to see things from V's perspective which helps with the immersion of "being" V, but since this isn't a braindance, V's emotional state isn't conveyed perfectly through their sight and voice alone. The effect is a bit like someone strapping a go-pro to their head, it captures their perspective but you'll miss out on the emotions communicated by their body language and facial expressions.

A third-person perspective would cover that gap.

 

[BullTheDozer.]

Fact is if they want multiplayer to be a reality, they MUST fix the third person issue.

I agree third person should be a thing but they really shouldn't even be thinking about multiplayer until they get the bugs and cut content for the main game figured out.

 

[TyraWadman]

I personally wouldn't have minded a bit of both. V isn't anything like me, so the immersion wasn't always there. Not saying I have to self insert to enjoy a game, but cyber and punk as a genre isn't something I'm really interested in to begin with. Having a character that pretends to know about it all just made it worse.

I would have liked seeing more character interaction this way. Not to mention, actually see them in the level of detail they were supposed to be seen in! Maxed graphics don't look like the cutscenes, ever!

I've always loved seeing the fuller details of cutscenes. Especially in older games.

 

[taiwanluthiers]

I agree third person should be a thing but they really shouldn't even be thinking about multiplayer until they get the bugs and cut content for the main game figured out.

I would say the third person thing is a priority and they can't even think about multiplayer without fixing third person.

Unless they want all other players to look weird like the third person mods do.

What I don't understand is why can't they get third person right? Every other games have no problem with this.