World is not interactive enough, thoughts?

[Kaylakaze]

You cannot integrate that level of immersion into a game environment such as this

1. The game would be 500 GB and exclude consoles - CD Projekt is a business and with next gen consoles out this year, thats huge chunk of revenue. Adding the aforementioned would increase file size 10x fold and not be feasible on consoles (avg player doesnt want 1 game taking up 1/2 the hard drive)

Not necessarily. Being a hyper-capitalist world, you can expect that many interiors would have the same basic design. The details can be populated via procedural generation when the door is opened. Each building can have its own seed for generating the contents and that would make it always consistent. If you set a limit of 16 (for example) possible objects that you can pick up that can be generated, you could also give 2 bytes to each visited building to store whether or not a takeable object spawns when you enter (since the generation is consistent, you'd know what object 4 was (for example) and be able to check the bit map for object spawn, see that it was taken, and not spawn it.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

The world isn't interactive enough.

It really isn't. And what reactivity there is (like with pedestrians, cops, the traffic, the "points of interest", etc), needs a lot of work still.

 

[Kaylakaze]

I feel that random things can have weirdly low textures for no apparent reason. I suspect it is bug and it has trouble loading the texture.

I was wondering about that because they do look like the "not fully finished loading" type of textures.

 

[Seinekar]

It really annoyed me when i noticed I couldn´t play any arcade machine even if they are done in great detail with different games.

 

[Bloodartist]

Yes GTA 5 and RDR2 have these features, but they're built on different graphics engine. Its all about balance/compromise. You want epic graphics? Less physics / interaction. Depends on what you like

Id say RDR2 beats Cyberpunk2077 handily in the immersion department. There is just too many elements that are "game-y" in CP2077 and don't even attempt to be immersive. The easiest comparison I have for CP2077 is Deus Ex HR from nine years ago...

Post automatically merged: Dec 12, 2020

Yes GTA 5 and RDR2 have these features, but they're built on different graphics engine. Its all about balance/compromise. You want epic graphics? Less physics / interaction. Depends on what you like

Dude, CP2077 has been pretty lackluster in terms of graphics in my opinion... Its got great map and style design, but doesn't necessarily translate to "good looking" when the engine is sputtering.

It took me three days but I found out that my CP2077 actually looks best and runs best when I disable RTS and particularly DLSS. (Im running RTX 3070) These new-fangled contraptions have been failing pretty hard in my eyes. And its amazing that CDPR didn't put in any alternative method of anti-aliasing to DLSS..!

 

[MojoBreaker]

Even GTA SA had arcade cabinets working you could play on your leisure.

 

[TorsenSlider]

The city is totally death

 

[Guest 4406876]

I undertsand that some people might prefer style over substance and complain about the graphics, but in this case they should not. Game looks good enough (actually a steop forward in graphic art), it's very unique kind of good looking so it might be not the best choice for everyone, I see it more like a work of art, some might like it ok other won't but can't deny it's very eye candy and great at times (when it doesn't glitch the fuck out of 3d models), problem is that with no substance, everything falls apart. We need a balance, and what this game needs the most (besides bug fixing) is relevant content and functioning systems to be implemented in the game that already exist. Not saying arcade machines and so on, but at least some stuff that works, that actually makes you feel like going out in NC besides clearing icons from a map. That choice is also bad. Why did you give us everything popping out from hour 0? Where's the pleaaseure of exploration? Where's the trill of discovering activities? Everything is served on a silver plate, the game does a piss poor job in communicating with the player and there's literally NO reason to go around the city besides grinding till you're bored side activities that , 90% of the times, are copy pasted. Too few mechanics for gameplay, always the same "door you can breach with tech, door you can breach with strenght, cam you can turn off with net, the typical entrance you can get if you're just stealthy with no perks in nothing else.
Even if all this fails to deliver (and it does big time) we still aren't able to distract ourselves by enjoying a "live" city or open world to get lost into (in the realistic expectations and ways that many other lesser games do, and RDR2 in particular despite being not lesser than CP77, but it's great in that regard) . This game won't be played more than 1 time to the fullest, and only because in the desperate gamble of crafting everything to match a quality other RPGs lack, you failed to deliver what every other RPG delivers : gameplay, immersion, fun and a closer RPG experience. That's my opinion put down in a less "rude" way. But also the rudeness is needed as well sometimes. I just doubt anyone relevant will ever read this, but not only my posts, but those of many other gamers that are complaining about what's really important for a videogame, and not tits.

 

[Mavic2021]

Some Simple tips for CD devs to make CP2077 feel more alive in upcoming DLCs (Please read)


First off, this game was an aesthetic treat and compared to GTAV, it is indeed much more "dense" with the core areas so much more beautiful in that regard... But no game is perfect, nor is it realistic in this decade to expect a full "city simulator" for any dev or in any game, so that's not what I'm expecting out of Night City not even under the most ideal of circumstances... That said, there are plenty of room for improvement, bug fixes sure, but also beyond that I'd like to see more in the upcoming DLC's that make NightCity more alive, not even necessarily newer and larger maps, but just practical added-elements and additional functional components that would go a long way towards making the city appear more 'alive', and immersive and dynamic and all that was illuded to but never fully manifested...

So in terms of most bang for buck and the low-hanging fruit (80/20 principle):

#TRANSPORTATION
1) Bring back (or rather develope for the first time) the promised subway system... this shouldn't be that hard to do... it would add an element of connectivity of the different parts of the city... Leave fast travel as an option, for those that want to ride the train shouldn't be forced to use loading screens

2) Air taxi(s) -- in the age of Telsa self driving cars, hyperloops, drone taxis we should have plenty of automated air taxi options in the world of CP2077, basically like the taxi hailing component in GTAIV (Liberty City) except the player can hail an air taxi that lands close to where he is standing, he gets in, and then chooses any destination and it automatically flys him to the location, while allowing him to look out the windows and enjoy the night city from above / higher perspective... this is simplier than simply giving the player ability to fly hovercars/etc since an air taxi is just from point to point and its trivial to code a system that flys the player from any point in the city to any other point without crashing into any buildings... we've seen NightCity from the ground, now lets see it from the sky!

3) Rented transporation -- user pays to be able to rent jet packs, hoverboards, scooters at different locations in the city so he can use a public transportation but on a personal level... for the jet packs cap a max height so that its still basically hovering at or around slightly above ground level, giving the user the discretion of travel but not allowing him to fly or scale above buildings etc... this requires money to rent and if the equipment is damaged, lost, stolen or not returned properly the users bank account will be deducted for the amount ( see #ECONOMY)

#INTERIORS
1) Skyscrapers with observation deck -- in every major city there is a theme like this, take Seattle for example you can visit the tallest building in Seattle downtown and go up on the obs deck and see the city view from high above, I would say incorporate some options like this where user can enter some of the taller buildings in NightCity, ride up the elevator to the higher decks and see the city from that view... maybe even add a floor with fine dinning where user can take a friend/date/group to the restuarant and eat while enjoying watching the scenery of the nightcity below etc...

2) All major buildings enter-able (is that a word? lol) with at least a ground lobby.... right now most of the buildings are just fake exteriors, nice to look at from the outside but completely fake and empty with no insides... Due to system restrains its not practical to simulate every room of every floor of every building in nightcity with furnished interiors and real windows and all that... but at least make the first floor /lobby area of every large and major building enter-able so that the character can walk in and out of them... for certain buildings you may want to make a working/functional lobby elevator that leads to an underground garage and/or allows the user to ride the elevator to above ground higher floors of the building... or have the elevator only allow certain floors to be accessed and furnish these floors with realistic settings/environment and this can tie in nicely with the job/work/career paths discussed in #ECONOMY section with gives you the office space to put a number of companies in which the user can find and switch jobs and work in corporate paths etc... for example allow the user to customize and decorate his own "office/desk", and if he has a window office, then that would provide another unique view/scenery of nightcity from above ground perspective, one that can only be gotten from working at that particular company/job, and gives him an incentive to work late to see the city from nighttime while burning the midnight oil

3) Multiple apartments, the user should be able to pick and choose from a vast selection and array of living arrangements and this necessities a lot of hotel/condo/apartment options which means these buildings need to have interiors and furnished and environments fully built out...




#ECONOMY

1) Ability to find and work a job, with multiple career paths and with ability to move up in the corporate world... this provides the user with a stead stream of income for which he can use to buy fancier cars, to move into newer and better apartments /condos etc.. and to buy fancier items like designer cloths and the suches... not to mention to spend on fine dinning in high end restuarants which can tie in nicely with going on datings, impressing women with luxury cars and expensive meals and "date nights out" at elaborate events.... basically there has to be a purpose and meaning to making more money, and the process of making more money has to be derived from a job or work or career of some sort as the main component...

1. Have a real economy with unemployment, inflation, commodity prices, and all of that impact and influence and affect the user in his everyday life... for example if a major terror event or pandemic causes the Nightcity to suffer an economic depression for a few months then its possible the company that the user is working at has to lay off people and he gets canned and has to downsize to a smaller apartment, loses his girlfriend/wife, and then has to find another lower paying job and stuck in the downward cycle for a few years until he is able to win the lottery (#GAMBLING/SPECUTLATION/BETTING) or his luck somehow changes...
2. Everything should cost money, it costs money to rent an apartement and it should also cost money to eat and drink... basically he user has to spend money to eat otherwise he will starve to death... and the user has to keep paying rent every month for whatever apartment he resides otherwise he gets evicted and could even become homeless and have to live in one of those nasty tents in tenty city or under a highway bridge etc etc
3. Grocery stores, restuarants, movie theaters, hotels, and shopping malls... There should be at least a few convinennce stores, shopping malls, restuarants and other retail places spread throughout nightcity, this is a component and element of the economy as well as a means for the user to spend all the hard earned money he worked towards... for example if you give a homeless a few bucks he should be able to use it to spend at a store on the corner to get something to eat and then that makes him happy because he is no longer so hungry... there should be a tie in for economy, money, and the ability to exchange that for goods and services (barber, tatto artists cough cough) and associate these goods and services to emotional feelings of happiness and satisfication for both the user /player and the NPCs...

#SEASONS

There should be a distinction between autumn/fall, spring, summer, winter etc... This gives a big cycle sense of passage of time that cannot be simulated with the current day/night cycles along... in the winter the sun should rise and set at different times/angles than the summer...

In addition, I'd like to see an accurate night sky map/ stars. NightCity takes place in SoCal, its trivial to map the nightsky for the year 2077 in the SoCal area... even in the latest Flight Simulator 2020 the stars are now accurate at night...

Ability to choose LIVE weather based on current user location (see Flight Simulator) so say its raining in Dallas Texas where a user is playing, then in NightCity it will match that and we raining in the game as well... also ability to customize weather on-the-fly in real-time (see Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020) and have that instantly change in the game without reloading...

Along with seasons I'd like to be able to see holiday celebrations for example Christmas time espeically... I want to hear holiday music and see buildings decorated with Christmas lights and the jolly spirits of it all... Think the ambiance and environment of say Polar Express, bring that alive to Night City for Xmas...



#MINI GAMES and other Microcosm

There is a "Go" board in Chinatown... but its fake... and the players aren't even attempting to play Go... See what Google Deepmind did with AlphaGo, Facebook made an OpenGo that they open sourced... there is also LeelaZero and KataGo free AI engines that have already been trained using deeplearning/machineAI to be far better than the Go masters... the same applies to Chess by the way... but I didn't see a Chess board in Night City yet... in any case all these board games the computer AI can now master... make these games playable in NightCity, so the user can watch two NPC's play a round of Go/Chess/etc (Ai vs Ai) or can join and sit down and take a seat and play against an NPC a real game of Go/Chess, (or in the future if CP gets a multiplayer than humans can play against one another etc) basically a microcosms and games-within-a-game....



Spotify/Netflix/youTube integrations... I'd like to see the user have a portable/personal mp3 player or app on his virtual smartphone that allows him to link to his personal -reallife- spotify account to listen to music while in the game... also on the TV screens at home to be able to watch netflix movies while in this virtual apartment chilling with his date/friends... and things like YouTube integration would be nice... maybe even pornhub integration....

Other simple games like darts, bowling and even toys like RC cars or DJI drones... give the use the ability to fly drones (check out DJI Simulator) or operate rc model cars etc... basically toys that he can buy at electronic stores or corner outlets that he can then use these toys in real life for any variety of enjoyments... this also ties into #ECONOMY and why its important to have a good job /career that pays good money!


#GAMBLING/SPECUTLATION/INVESTMENTS/BETTING

Have some form of virtual casinos in the game, NightCity reminds me of Vegas, yet not one slot machine and not one means to gamble or bet? How about the ability to play the stockmarket, bitcoins, and make bets and well as go gambling, cards, poker, etc this not only provides a form of entertainment but also gives the user a way to quickly win / lose a lot of money and for the risk takers they may wish to invest their money in high risk high reward speculative stocks in the stock market instead of immediately spending it on a new apartment, new car, new tech gadget etc etc... this would also tie back to #ECONOMY since the more the user earns the more income he has to spend on gambling/stocks and the better the economy does the higher his stocks return on investment...



#ROMANCE/RELATIONSHIPS

Should be able to court any pretty woman on the streets, to walk up to her and say hi and have a path/chance to a dialogue that leads to setting up a first date... and following that if it goes well can progress to more dates and evetnually her moving in with the user and eventually even having a kid, getting married, and the works... each female NPC should have a male preference and a threshold of compatiblity... so that for example if on the first date the guy is cheap and takes her to low end resturant, doesn't have a nice car to pick her up with, and otherwise seems like a low life then she wouldn't process/continue with him... whereas if he is already established with a multimillion apartment, supercar, takes her to most expensive restuarant in NightCity, then I could see her going back to his place on the first date and maybe even getting pregnant right then and there that night etc...

=====


What we need is emergent gameplay that arises from structured agent embodiment

Embodied Learning is Essential to Artificial Intelligence

Jeff Hawkins has a principle that intuitively makes a lot of sense, yet is something that Deep Learning research has not emphasized enough…

medium.com

What do I mean? Its been discovered/reported that there is no AI driving in CP2077 and that unlike GTA series, the NPC drivers just follow a scripted 'rail' system and have no ability to "AI" drive... heck even Midtown Maddess I played back in 1998 was better than this!!!!!

Well even the "AI" driving in GTA is actually not truly AI... for true AI driving based on deep learning there was a guy who published open source driving AI for GTAV a while back but Rockstar sent him a Cease and Desist letter...

GTA V + Universe

The Universe integration with Grand Theft Auto V, built and maintained by Craig Quiter's DeepDrive project, is now open-source. To use it, you'll just need a purchased copy of GTA V, and then your Universe agent will be able to start driving a car around the streets of a high-fidelity virtual world.

web.archive.org

 

[Guest 4406876]

I'd love all that but in all honestly most of that stuff falls in the "unrealistic expectations". But yes, that would be truly remarkable, maybe too much.

 

[Mavic2021]

Not necessarily. Being a hyper-capitalist world, you can expect that many interiors would have the same basic design. The details can be populated via procedural generation when the door is opened. Each building can have its own seed for generating the contents and that would make it always consistent. If you set a limit of 16 (for example) possible objects that you can pick up that can be generated, you could also give 2 bytes to each visited building to store whether or not a takeable object spawns when you enter (since the generation is consistent, you'd know what object 4 was (for example) and be able to check the bit map for object spawn, see that it was taken, and not spawn it.

Yup.... that is how in No Man Sky they have fit the entire Universe!
Anyone remember this procedural city in 96kb size! was more than a decade ago...
No excuse for CDPR to not have every room of every floor of every building created in cp2077

 

[IskrasFemme]

Firstly I must say that the game is great and I enjoy playing it very much, but more and more I am playing I cant shake that one big dissapointment or issue I have with the game and thats that the world just not seem interactive enough and its really shame cause it has so much potential and unused opportunities in that area. I dont know I just thought it would be more interactive like GTA you know more specifically like GTA SA.

- All those food stands 24/7 or other shops around the game you cant interact with ... why you cant buy a hotdog or cofee or beer whatever then drink or eat it with some nice animation .. those are tiny things but it really adds immersion and life into the game
- Restaurants and bars ... sadly they are completely obsolete and not worth going in there, its just an inventory barter same as with the food machines and since all food gives same boost you just dont have to go there ever ... why you cant just sit around the bar or restaurant drink or eat something with some animations and chill you know maybe watch some strippers and give them some eddies you know
- Too few channels in TV and you cant interact with anything while browsing the web thats a shame ...
- No minigames (at least so far) there is also a lot of unused potential, i saw playing/gaming machines make them usable for in game gaming, pub games like darts or pool, hazard machines (also in game) maybe in game casino ?, there are shooting ranges at gun shops so why not make a minigame here to shoot for high score etc.
- Customizable cars (hope it will be added in some future DLC)
- What are those BDs for if you cant watch them? I still cant figure out why you can buy them them then? and whats the function of pawn shops cause you cant use almost anything he is selling and you can sell him everything you can sell to other vendors
- Too few prostitute/toys types ... I came only across two so far (one male, one female) and playing as male V I dont find the female version very atractive

Those are just few I can think of from the top of my head, feel free to add more if you think of any. I dont know after 8 years of development I just expected the world to be way more interactive and that there will be more things to do when you are not on a mission to just hang out you know.

But otherwise the game is great

How it can be improved? (probably wont, but hey a man can dream) Your thoughts?

- First STEP: CORE game, fix in all plataform's;

- Secound: graphic insues/Consoles;

- 3º: AI - what CP can handle...

- ...

- Last: DLCs.

 

[faderide]

Firstly I must say that the game is great and I enjoy playing it very much, but more and more I am playing I cant shake that one big dissapointment or issue I have with the game and thats that the world just not seem interactive enough and its really shame cause it has so much potential and unused opportunities in that area. I dont know I just thought it would be more interactive like GTA you know more specifically like GTA SA.

- All those food stands 24/7 or other shops around the game you cant interact with ... why you cant buy a hotdog or cofee or beer whatever then drink or eat it with some nice animation .. those are tiny things but it really adds immersion and life into the game
- Restaurants and bars ... sadly they are completely obsolete and not worth going in there, its just an inventory barter same as with the food machines and since all food gives same boost you just dont have to go there ever ... why you cant just sit around the bar or restaurant drink or eat something with some animations and chill you know maybe watch some strippers and give them some eddies you know
- Too few channels in TV and you cant interact with anything while browsing the web thats a shame ...
- No minigames (at least so far) there is also a lot of unused potential, i saw playing/gaming machines make them usable for in game gaming, pub games like darts or pool, hazard machines (also in game) maybe in game casino ?, there are shooting ranges at gun shops so why not make a minigame here to shoot for high score etc.
- Customizable cars (hope it will be added in some future DLC)
- What are those BDs for if you cant watch them? I still cant figure out why you can buy them them then? and whats the function of pawn shops cause you cant use almost anything he is selling and you can sell him everything you can sell to other vendors
- Too few prostitute/toys types ... I came only across two so far (one male, one female) and playing as male V I dont find the female version very atractive

Those are just few I can think of from the top of my head, feel free to add more if you think of any. I dont know after 8 years of development I just expected the world to be way more interactive and that there will be more things to do when you are not on a mission to just hang out you know.

But otherwise the game is great

How it can be improved? (probably wont, but hey a man can dream) Your thoughts?

 

[ShalmanezerIII]

Many people said what the creator of this topic shared - question is if the devs would care or not We must wait. Things might change for the better in terms of gameplay and options for small pleasures like minigames

 

[BlackWolf500.298]

Yup.... that is how in No Man Sky they have fit the entire Universe!
Anyone remember this procedural city in 96kb size! was more than a decade ago...
No excuse for CDPR to not have every room of every floor of every building created in cp2077

I disagree. Every building and every floor woild be ridiculous alone for the performance.

But generslly there should be a good portion of larger buildings accessible with at least 1 floor to look at. I mean come tf on, you can render them on a need-basis - meaning only when a player enters. Even Deus Ex Human Revolution felt more interactive in some parts.

 

[faderide]

I don't have performance issues with a 2080 Ti..with everything maxed it's fluid and graphically beautiful.
The world feels like a dead illusion..smoke and mirrors to distract from what's missing.
In other open world 'Rpg type games'..even when you are not doing main missions or side quests, or activities..you can still
interact with the world ..playing around and making your own fun..because there are npcs that behave somewhat realistically, or cops like in the GTA games that will pursue you. In the Bethesda games you have companions that you can have
some dialogue with and will at least accompany you on your journeys. The worlds feels immersive and almost real.
You feel like the character you play is you and you are interacting in a world. In this game it feels like your watching
a video. It feels 'on rails'. It feels fake. It feels no more immersive than a good looking first person shooter, with fake
non interactive city tacked on. Why do you have worse npc, cop and vehicle ai than GTA 3 SA? It's embaressing. This like Bioware's Anthem.

You have only 2 possibilities to salvage this catastrophe.

1) Release a full dev kit like Bethesda games do, and let the modding community make this game into what you all
told us it would be, and what most people would want.

2) Rebuild the whole game from the ground up. Start..as a baseline..with Npc 'AI', traffic, the police system, vehicle
AI. Start with the world so it feels interactive..then and only then start adding in story, missions, and eye candy.

A patch here and a patch there won't fix this mess. The world is lifeless and there's no immersion. The more I think about it..modders may be
the only hope..but I doubt you all would release a dev kit..so....sad.

 

[Marcim12]

Yes that's good points, and I have a few more. Sex with romance its a one time thing, and shouldn't be, if I date Judy for exemple, I want to hangout with her and do funny things, drink, have a dinner, meet her in my or her apartment, you know what I mean? It's like The Sims with GTA that I was expecting, the pinnacle of RPG, and it's not, this really put me down. And getting drunk, you drink then you get instantly drunk for 30sec and it's impossible to drink until pass out, drugs, where's the drugs?? Its a Cyberpunk RPG, we should have the possibility to get in drugs, be addict to it, having withdraw symptoms...

 

[Keive]

I couldn't tell if my game had bugs or if certain things were featured, such as various NPC AI. Pretty sure some are definitely bugs but I didn't understand the way they act. Police drive me insane.

Also I thought that the buildings that show they are locked were because I had to do something to get in, like some sort of mission etc. Can you really not get in them?

Also wish romance was better, not from what I heard.
Not sure how'd I feel about DLC for it, would I need to re-start the game or could I meet them later on?
But then there is another problem

Spoiler

V dies at the end no matter what, from what I heard and to keep playing the game you have to load a previous save. Not sure if someone could fully confirm that though.

 

[Danyel_Longbow]

The vibe I am getting is that it feels like an old fashioned hollow movie set, looks good from the front but don't look behind the curtain and open any doors?

 

[Setaal]

They missed a lot of opportunities for deeper environment immersion. I mean come on, who makes a game with arcade games within it that you cant play? This is the 2000's, i wanna play a little Donkey Kong or Gallica when i see an arcade in a game!