Cyberpunk 2077 could be the first AAA game to have a transgender playable character

[Sardukhar]

I think it's inclusion would cause a bigger ruckus than should be expected for such a minor amount of coding involved.

This is a good point - although there are also arguments for the ruckus. Same point was made about the sex scenes in Witcher series.

Not really sure how much time the developer seriously wants to spend on that aspect of character development. Because this isn't Bioware. (Bi-any-way-ware?)

This is not a good point. Bioware a) has made many good games and b) isn't the metric anyone upper-grade should use when developing their own stuff. Any more than they should or shouldn't say, "this isn't CDPR." Build to your own vision, which CDPR does.

Whether the ridiculously-hated Bioware did or didn't do it isn't that important. If you like something they built, maybe adopt it. If not, don't. Trying to be not-Bioware would be duuuumb.

Although we don't pick sexual preference on character creation usually, we do pick gender. Gender isn't sexual preference, which is your example.

It could be pretty cyberpunk to let you pick something other than the boring two.

 

[NukeTheMoon]

This is not a good point. Bioware a) has made many good games and b) isn't the metric anyone upper-grade should use when developing their own stuff. Any more than they should or shouldn't say, "this isn't CDPR." Build to your own vision, which CDPR does. Whether the ridiculously-hated Bioware did or didn't do it isn't that important. If you like something they built, maybe adopt it. If not, don't. Trying to be not-Bioware would be duuuumb.

Deleted the joke. It was a dumb joke.

I am fully aware CDPR has Bioware to thank for booth-space to help get TW1 off the ground (according to project cardinal podcast) and if that helped catapult The Witcher games and books into my life I am grateful.

I don't "hate" any company. I have a limited amount of time for games, so I only play the great ones, I ignore the lesser games. I don't play them and then complain that they wasted my time. Life is too short.

However, Bioware has painted itself in a way that is as obvious and in-your-face in its social commentary as Call Of Duty is in it's jingoism.
Gamers hate being treated like that, and they don't want to see anymore of it.

Although we don't pick sexual preference on character creation usually, we do pick gender. Gender isn't sexual preference, which is your example.
It could be pretty cyberpunk to let you pick something other than the boring two.

I think we are getting a little ahead of the actual information we have here, talking about setting up the character gender or sexual preference in the character builder.

We know little about CP77, many assume that every aspect will be like the PnP because its the source.
I however, tend to believe CDPR will do what it's done well, which is to have a defined character, with his own deep history, personality and worldview.

I could be wrong on that, but I definitely think it would be a easier way to create a cohesive story experience than what Fallout 4 does with you're ability to go from acting like a nice-guy one minute to acting like an asshole in the next for no reason.

 

[mcflurry928]

If by transgender you mean swapping bodies mechanically but keeping everything else intact, then yes. It's very feasible and would be very interesting to see. But I don't want gender to play a role in this game whatsoever.

 

[MadqueenShow]

They wanted it so they could have a two foot long penis-weapon. That did 2D6 damage when used. As an extra limb attack.

What I never saw was a Midnight Lady™ with teeth. Just to compensate.

Now you're going to tell me that it exists and you'll have me wondering for the rest of the week how did I fail to find it.

 

[Sardukhar]

What I never saw was a Midnight Lady™ with teeth. Just to compensate.

Now you're going to tell me that it exists and you'll have me wondering for the rest of the week how did I fail to find it.

No, no, never saw that either.

The (vast) majority of our Cpunk players were men and I think their minds couldn't encompass the horror. The women we played with, well, I guess were being kind.

 

[Lisbeth_Salander]

@Sardukhar

I was about to ask "why"? But I know the answer, and I mean the real reason and not "forum rules related" kinda of reason, but the "CEO orders" kinda reason...and I'm really ok with that because it makes sense, I'm only kinda sad that I made a nice post in there.

Spoiler

perhaps its forum rules since the same post was not deleted in /r/cyberpunk game...or maybe the mods there are taking a nap

 

[Lisbeth_Salander]

I'm looking foward to seeing this kind of trans in CP2077 if you catch my drift:

 

[Azriel7]

Seems like it would be a waste of time and resources since you can literally be male or female at the beginning of the game. So you want people to call you him or she instead of your sex? Not a problem, just have the identifier list you as the opposite of your sex. Want to change sex in the game? Again, not a problem, since you should be able to customize your character with implants/body alterations at a chop shop. Want people to react to you changing your body? A little issue since that will require new dialog being added, more voice over works..etc, but doable, it just would not be a big thing. Want to have random people tell you about how they are trapped in the wrong sex, or their painful ordeal of not being accepted for who they are? NO NO NO! That is clearly trying to push identity politics into the games. Leave identity politics out of this, I think most people want a game, not something that breaks immersion in an obvious hamfested way that turns a fun game into a painful soap box for certain groups politics. We already have a company that focuses on that, they are called bioware and they should be exactly what CDPR should NOT turn into.


I am not against trans characters being in, I am against trans characters being in and obviously hamfested. They always have some sob story about running away from home because of acceptance, (which they forcefully tell you without you asking or knowing them for very long), and you can't argue with (Thinking of the horrid baldur's gate dragonspear where even an evil character was forced to accept it at face value). I take back one thing, I can think of one trans character that was in a game and done in a good way that did not feel forced and that is Erica Anderson from CATHERINE. You do not know that she used to be a he, throughout most of the game until near the end. You gets hints here and there, but its later after a funny moment that the truth is revealed. It probably worked so well because the game was created in japan, and has not hung up on identity politics like it is here. Here, we have companies that try to create a trans character, then justify it and force the game around the person, which sticks out like a sore thumb. In japan, they create a character that fits the setting, and it just happens to be trans. In fact, I would say japan is light years ahead of everything. You can find something for everybody, strait, gay, bi, trans, harems, reverse harems, things I cannot say on this forum..etc, and the thing is the characters usually work and do not feel out of place or forced. Maybe western companies should start paying attention on how they do it in japan, because western companies do not seem to have a clue.

 

[Shavod]

Technology in Cyberpunk 2020 allows you to completely modify your body at any given point, as long as you have money, so I think the question is how much we could potentially alter our character in-game physically after we leave character creator. Should we be able to change our body type, skin color or gender? REDs said they are planning to include different ways our character is approached based on her fashion style, so does it mean they will also include different reactions and comments based on our physical appearance as well? If so, having an option to completely change how your character look in the middle of the game could potentially affect the progress or interactions with the other NPC's (I mean it would be weird if you changed your gender, approached your friend and he acted like nothing changed). Having an option to do that in something like Saint's Row is a no brainer, but in a RPG game there is definitely a lot to consider.

 

[CyberAddict]

I think having topics about sex, and a sense of belonging in a certain demographic adds depth to a game. Though i have to say my dream or ideal situation where i stand in regards to implementing the opition here is a resounding yes. I feel or think rather that having these layers of nuance options let's it so that we the player can have more unique experience. Take this, for example, let us say you're of hispanic origins in the game and you encounter some biggoted rednecks, now lets flip that around for transgender individuals. I personally think that kind of conflict makes it much more interesting in telling a personal tale of your character. Maybe you're a corporate working for dyna corporation and you want to advance tech to make it so Male to Females can have ovaries to give birth to children of their own. I don't know, maybe i'm sounding a bit unreasonable? But i truly feel the best thing in RPGs is conflicts. It's one of the reasons why i liked the witcher series so much is that non-human hatred aspect that I interpert as allegory for minorties in our world and makes me relate. If we can reflect the greed in cyberpunk, why not sex?

 

[Suhiira]

The problem is to do the subject any justice at all you pretty much need to focus the entire game around it, the ramifications, reactions of others, etc.
While I'm perfectly fine with any gender (or lack thereof) you may want to be (or see represented) in a game it's never going to receive more then extremely superficial treatment.

 

[Lisbeth_Salander]

The problem is to do the subject any justice at all you pretty much need to focus the entire game around it, the ramifications, reactions of others, etc.
While I'm perfectly fine with any gender (or lack thereof) you may want to be (or see represented) in a game it's never going to receive more then extremely superficial treatment.

Transsexuals can be approached subtly in a story, but at what point the developer's treatment of them becomes superficial? It is no different than a heterossexual male character that rarely has his sexuality highlighted, because there's usually no need to give overexposure to explain why the male character likes to fuck women, the simple fact that he shows interest in females can give that away...So there's only gender left, and that can be made naturally in a story. Considering that superficial treatment = subtly made or something that feels natural, then there's nothing wrong with that.

Isn't it the whole point of some cultures that state that theres no difference from a transsexual and a woman? Then wouldn't this kind of subtlyness be justified while still not being superficial? But more importantly, wouldn't anything that stays too far away from the "superficial treatment" turn into "giving highlights and attention to transsexuals for the sake of doing it in a story"?

Subtly = natural and realistic.

By making transsexuals' presence in a game something natural to the story, and not forced, it would also turn into a realistic approach considering modern western society views on them, not to mention that this subtle approach to trans would be less tiresome to the general public.

 

[Azriel7]

I just can't see them adding it at this point. It would still require resources (time, personnel, reprogramming, new voice recordings..etc being taken away from other projects) to do, then if they screw it up(aka, do not make it to some impossible standards by the identity politics crowd), The news and social media will go wall to wall about how cyberpunk 2077 mistreated trans characters and instead of talking about how much a great game it is, that is all we will here. This is exactly what will happen. It might be something to consider on a DLC after the game is released, but not something that needs to be implemented now.

On a side note, going back to OP original post. I really hope CDPR DOES include those implants(bring all the implants and cybergear!).

 

[NukeTheMoon]

The problem is to do the subject any justice at all you pretty much need to focus the entire game around it, the ramifications, reactions of others, etc.
While I'm perfectly fine with any gender (or lack thereof) you may want to be (or see represented) in a game it's never going to receive more then extremely superficial treatment.

Honestly extremely superficial treatment I think is the best way to go: It's not really something that should take center stage in the game world. We're talking a condition that effects 0.3% of the population.

Like if you were playing a game and it kept focusing on plight of those with Gluten sensitivity you would think that it was weird.

I hope that if included at all its focused on the same way that gay characters were included in TW3, like the gay hunter. Not in your face, not something you even find out unless you're pushy about it, because it's really none of your goddamned business.

 

[Gadsden_Guy]

I logged in just to make a comment to respond to this thread.

Please, I beg you from the bottom of my heart. Like I'm on my knees pleading with you.

Please don't ruin this game with liberal agendas. I beg of you, please don't suggest these kinds of ideas. You got Uncharted, Overwatch, Mass Effect, Call of Duty, Assassins Creed. So many great games, just let us have CDPR.

It's the last thing we ask for, just please focus on some other game. Don't ruin Cyberpunk 2077 and CDPR too.

I know you might see this as a joke, but that's because you probably think you're a warrior of justice. But from human to human, have mercy on Cyberpunk 2077.

 

[Lisbeth_Salander]

@Gadsden_Guy

I woldn't worry about that at all. CDPR doens't seem the kind of developer to put something in the game just for the sake of doing it or to simply appeal to real world ideals. They only put things in the game if it makes it better as a game. But don't that means we won't get to see transsexuals in CP2077, theres still the possibility, what I'm saying is, if they happen to appear in the game they'll have to fit thematically in that universe.

In the Rolling Stone magazine CDPR boss said this:


"INTERVIEWER: Did you follow the debate in the United States about representation inThe Witcher 3? The game tackles the subject of race implicitly, through the way that mages and nonhumans like dwarves and elves are treated by the government. But there were American critics who were bothered by the fact that there were no people of color in it.
MARCIN IWINSKI: Yeah, I read the 100 pages of posts on Polygon, if that's what you're asking about.

INTERVIEWER: And what did you think?
MARCIN IWINSKI: As media, you guys have the right to have any opinion. And then your readers will express their opinions. And that's what I read. I'm glad it provoked a heated debate. When people talk about things, that's good. Having said that, I think with the The Witcher – coming again from the lore and from Sapkowski's books – we are dealing with problems of racism. Not related to skin color, but related to whether you are a dwarf or an elf or a monster. That's what Sapkowski wrote about. How people understand it in different countries and cultures is really up to them. And we're happy to read about it."



It seems to me that creative control and immersion are really serious business at CDPR. If you still have doubts, I sugest you to watch all this 2 hours video so you can know how the developers value this:

 

[Suhiira]

<clip> or to simply appeal to real world ideals.

I think I'll disagree with those being "real world ideals'.
Most of the people that support such ideals most rabidly live in a world of "if" and "should" not one of "is".

(( Note how I carefully didn't specify who such people are or what groups they tend to affiliate with. This way any and everyone is free to feel offended. ))

 

[Lisbeth_Salander]

I think I'll disagree with those being "real world ideals'.
Most of the people that support such ideals most rabidly live in a world of "if" and "should" not one of "is".

Real people believe in them, and usually influence the world with their views. Aren't most things humans can do and be simply made up?

There are 2 main fighters:

People defending that genders are a social construct, therefore they have flexibility and are not limited to only 2 genders, thus gender fluid people are born.

AND ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE RING...

People defending the existence of only 2 genders with the argument that mostly, biological genders are limited to women with X X cromossomes and men with X Y cromossomes.


Sardukhar from now on everytime I say something controversial I'm gonna flag you in my post so things can get easier, are you ok with that? I'm really a nice human bean. This probably violates the forum rules but consider that I'm only stating them in a neutral and objective view and I'm really not defending any of them.

 

[Sardukhar]

Real people believe in them, and usually influence the world with their views. Aren't most things humans can do and be simply made up?

There are 2 main fighters:

People defending that genders are a social construct, therefore they have flexibility and are not limited to only 2 genders, thus gender fluid people are born.

AND ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE RING...

People defending the existence of only 2 genders with the argument that mostly, biological genders are limited to women with X X cromossomes and men with X Y cromossomes.


Sardukhar from now on everytime I say something controversial I'm gonna flag you in my post so things can get easier, are you ok with that? I'm really a nice human bean. This probably violates the forum rules but consider that I'm only stating them in a neutral and objective view and I'm really not defending any of them.

More to the point, this has little to do with Cyberpunk 2077, so let it go. If you want to talk about transgenders in game and how they might deal with that, that's fine.

IF you want to talk about gender politics or science on their own, nope. Don't, thanks.

 

[Azriel7]

@Gadsden_Guy

I woldn't worry about that at all. CDPR doens't seem the kind of developer to put something in the game just for the sake of doing it or to simply appeal to real world ideals. They only put things in the game if it makes it better as a game. But don't that means we won't get to see transsexuals in CP2077, theres still the possibility, what I'm saying is, if they happen to appear in the game they'll have to fit thematically in that universe.

In the Rolling Stone magazine CDPR boss said this:


"INTERVIEWER: Did you follow the debate in the United States about representation inThe Witcher 3? The game tackles the subject of race implicitly, through the way that mages and nonhumans like dwarves and elves are treated by the government. But there were American critics who were bothered by the fact that there were no people of color in it.
MARCIN IWINSKI: Yeah, I read the 100 pages of posts on Polygon, if that's what you're asking about.

INTERVIEWER: And what did you think?
MARCIN IWINSKI: As media, you guys have the right to have any opinion. And then your readers will express their opinions. And that's what I read. I'm glad it provoked a heated debate. When people talk about things, that's good. Having said that, I think with the The Witcher – coming again from the lore and from Sapkowski's books – we are dealing with problems of racism. Not related to skin color, but related to whether you are a dwarf or an elf or a monster. That's what Sapkowski wrote about. How people understand it in different countries and cultures is really up to them. And we're happy to read about it."



It seems to me that creative control and immersion are really serious business at CDPR. If you still have doubts, I sugest you to watch all this 2 hours video so you can know how the developers value this:

Polygon, kotaku..etc censor users posts by shadowbanning/hiding posts from other users so it is carefully manipulated to whatever view they are trying to push. They will always have some counter posts so it is not so obvious. So always take the "users" view with a healthy pinch of salt. At least this was how it was a few years ago, it has been a while since I visited polygon so I am not sure how bad it is now.