Other games and Cyberpunk 2077: what could latter borrow from them?

[metalmaniac21]

Other games and Cyberpunk 2077: what could latter borrow from them?

[Reddit thread copycating mode on]. Let's try summarize all suggestions that sound like "Look how X done in Y, it's something Cyberpunk 2077 could use" here.

1. What's your favourite/least favourite/game you're playing right now/remember from far distant childhood?
2. What it does well?
3. What could CP2077 developers borrow from it and reimplement in the subforum's subject?

I'll start with this:
-The Elder Scrolls Travels: Morrowind
-It's quiet good at being a 200+ hours lengthy(HLTB says 279 hours, not me), yet story heavy and highly replayable game. It takes full use of faction system to do the latter, to say short.
-CP2077 could do the same but with roles instead of factions and give up faction system to gangs or corporations and use gangs as cyberpunk equivalent of TES' guilds.

 

[AdamTaylor]

If they're going to get inspired by The Elder Scrolls, I'd like for them to look at Daggerfall. Epic guild system, with randomized quests (many of which having a ton of different ways of being solved).
Personally I was never a fan of Morrowind. I did like a couple of elements, but as a whole, the game bored me to tears and just felt... clunky, unfun. I found Oblivion to play a lot better mechanically and definitely story wise. Skyrim was better for action, with a dumbed down level system, and the story was... meh.
Daggerfall's story was epic. Not to mention the game having a ton of different endings. Something more games need (even big story driven ones).

There was this little known game called the Witcher 3. It had a stupidly fun card game in it. I'd like to see them borrow that idea.

System Shock 2 had a little terminal you could carry with you that you could find and load minigames into. Something similar would be nice here, the tech would be appropriate.

 

[Guest 4149880]

Dark Souls and Bloodborne and how it integrates seamless and focused online co op and PvP invasions within the fully realized single player game. A covenant system that allows you to rank up and gain abilities, gear and unique items only available in the covenant. I combat system where skill is very prominent even over stats. I deep lore within the game that is left up to the player to discover and peace together.

I think all of these concepts could inspire a lot of features for CP2077.

A fully open world Night City fully playable in single player, allowing seamless co op, while at the same time being invaded by enemy players. Also with seamless load in, load out hub zones where players can interact, sell&trade, talk, join up and tackle missions.

A game provided covenant/factions system that allows you to join, complete objectives, earn rewards, rank up, fight opposing covenants/factions in PvP which could be where the PvP invasions come into play. Also includes and Sin/bounty system to hunt players that have been indicted by other players for the evil deeds.

A deep combat system where players knowledge and skill far outweighs any number or stat related system. Skilled related combat mechanics that are harder to execute but will reward highly for very critical damage or lethal kills.

I very deep story that lead towards the definitive ending but with also loads of lore built into game items, and game world to tell a story of the years past leading up to the current story giving the game world more life and lived-in feeling.

A limited but intuitive inventory system to encourage specific loadouts and build type.

Just to name a few relative vague features.

 

[Suhiira]

Well, I've been playing a lot of "Star Trek Online" lately. And while the game has it's flaws (some MAJOR ones in fact) one thing I find very interesting is that there are a large number of multi-part single-player stories (they call them Episodes) in the game. So we essentially have an MMO that's actually designed as a single-player game.

And the chapters in the episodes frequently tend to be fairly interesting/unique. Of course most involve combat, space, ground, or both but one time you're repairing satellites, another you're dealing with an epidemic, or pirates, or a kidnapping, or traveling thru time to "fix" something, or helping set up a colony, or ... or ... or ...
While they may have "Kill X number of Y's" and "FedEx" elements they really don't feel that way because those actions are built into, and feel logical/reasonable for the mission you're doing.

90% of the reason I'm playing is for that fairly interesting single-player campaign. Once I finish it I'll probably drop the game, but it hasn't been a bad ride so far.

 

[AdamTaylor]

I don't want co-op or PvP in the game. I'm generally a huge fan of co-op, but games have to be designed around it for it to work well, and that means that they're NOT designed around the single player. So I'd rather they stick with what they're good at.

That said, having a "passive" multiplayer aspect could be interesting. Similar to Shadow of Mordor/War, where if a player is killed by someone, other players can get bounty hunter missions to take down their killers (possibly with involved "tracking them down" sections to the mission). And such things could be worked into a randomized mission system. Say a player steals item X from company A. Well, other players can get a report about that theft in their game, and take a mission to recover the item.
These missions wouldn't affect other players directly, but it would be an interesting way of spawning dynamic content. Make the game world feel more alive.

This sort of thing could even go so far as to have "clones" of other players put into the game. So if a player spends a lot of time working for a certain company, then they'd have a chance of spawning as a merc unit for that company in someone else's game (maybe limit it to someone's friend list). It would be neat to see your friends pop up as random enemies (or even possibly allies depending on the situation) in your game.

 

[4meg]

While it was only a FPS, the original Alien v Predator was full of atmosphere and had plenty of scares throughout the game. Especially as the marine in your first run through. While CP2077 is not a shooter or a horror, the devs should look at how to create shocking moments in the game. Life is like that, one second you're minding your business and the next you're embroiled in a bloody revolution.

 

[Dr. LaBrat]

1. What's your favourite/least favourite/game you're playing right now/remember from far distant childhood?

Metal Gear Solid 5

2. What it does well?

Controls, Companion Gameplay, Shooting in third and first person without the game becoming a cover shooter

3. What could CP2077 developers borrow from it and reimplement in the subforum's subject?

One of the major gripes people had with the witcher 3 was how gerald controlled, they absolutly nailed that in MGS5, controlling snake is just fun and feels good. It's also the only third person/first person hybrid with good shooting mechanics that i know of. I also enjoyed how mgs5 implemented companions and how you use them to help you in the game. lastly i've heard rumours cyberpunk will have stealth elements, they could really learn a thing or two from mgs 5 here, i especially liked how you can choke someone and ask him for the positions of his friends and not only being able to get rid of him (lethally and unlethally)

 

[Guest 4149880]

I don't want co-op or PvP in the game. I'm generally a huge fan of co-op, but games have to be designed around it for it to work well, and that means that they're NOT designed around the single player. So I'd rather they stick with what they're good at.

That's been proven to be false. There are many single player games with integrated online that isn't a separate component, and it works well. And needless to say, CDPR will likely use this seamless multiplayer system weaved into the single player world without needing to sacrifice the SP experience. The design of these two components is not the rule, and there have been many exceptions. Its honestly not that hard to imagine.

And the original PnP game was played by multiple players

 

[Rawls]

1. Right now I'm replaying Horizon Zero Dawn in anticipation of it's expansion release next Tuesday.
2. Open world combat with stealth, range & Melee options. Really good graphics. Very solid main narrative with well designed side quests.
3. Weak points and strong points on enemies. Incorporating stealth into combat. Quest design (though CDPR already does this well). Well developed main character.

The big minuses to the game are that there are relatively few truly interesting NPCs, companions are basically useless, obvious need to account for more modern day weaponry, getting well developed character balanced with character customization & classes. More significant choices and consequences. However, I think it's the best non-CDPR example of a solid main quest in an open world on the market.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Deus Ex (the original), Morrowid and Wizardry 8 for combat, movement and character progression; Fallout 1&2 for roleplaying opportunities and character expression; and Witcher 1 for controls and perspectives.

Roughly. I suppose.

Can't say offhand that there's any modern AAA game I'd want to see pointers taken from as they're all practically the same.

 

[SigilFey]

1. Right now I'm replaying Horizon Zero Dawn in anticipation of it's expansion release next Tuesday.

(Thinks again about buying a PS4 for Horizon. Thinks again about buying an Xbox for Red Dead. Looks at his PC and considers the small pile of un-played software on Steam / GOG. Grins and puts down his wallet.)

Deus Ex (the original), Morrowid [...] for combat, movement and character progression...

Yes!

...and Wizardry 8...

(Remember Sir-Tech fondly...but raises an eyebrow and waits for further details.)

Fallout 1&2 for roleplaying opportunities and character expression...

Yes!

and Witcher 1 for controls and perspectives.

(Lowers one eyebrow and raises the other. Alternates between eyebrows. Realizes how ridiculous this looks. Stops.)

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

(Remember Sir-Tech fondly...but raises an eyebrow and waits for further details.)

In the beginning, when the earth was without form, and void, there was talk about a "tactical mode" that was never specified (at all). The wary hope for this vaguest of concepts was that whilst core gameplay might hopefully work something akin to a mix of Morrowind and Deus Ex, the tactical mode might actually represent and fair Wizardry-esque translation of the event. Many spoke immediately of nu-Fallout VATS that was a concept also implied to be a part of Witcher fame at a time, but it is the opinion of this humble narrator, that nay, fuck that shit, it needs to be much more comprehensive a feature as there's naught tactics in picking headshots in slow motion.

Also, I loved how I could manually write keywords in dialog and the NPC's would actually comment on stuff that wasn't plainly in the dialog options.

(Lowers one eyebrow and raises the other. Alternates between eyebrows. Realizes how ridiculous this looks. Stops.)

Careful with them eyebrows, they're they only ones you have.

There's 3 very nice perspectives in Witcher 1. Top down, high 3rd person, and over the shoulder. And cursor driven gameplay. You could change that to be Top down, OtT and FPP.

Yes!

Yes!

Yes!

 

[BjornTheBandit]

Dark Souls and Bloodborne and how it integrates seamless and focused online co op and PvP invasions within the fully realized single player game. A covenant system that allows you to rank up and gain abilities, gear and unique items only available in the covenant. I combat system where skill is very prominent even over stats. I deep lore within the game that is left up to the player to discover and peace together.

- snip
.

It's a neat concept, but you weren't really forced to pick a side. You can get what you want from a covenant then jump ship to another and get what you want, rinse and repeat. Makes the choices kinda meaningless, know what I mean? Also, I found myself having to stop pvp-ing because of the endless meta-gank-power ranger squads that made the covenants difficult to progress through the way they were intended to be (yeah, you could grind some pve enemies for days or weeks depending on rng, but grinding and rng are a match made in Hell to rob all joy one could possibly derive from an activity). Ever get raped by 3 washing poles from dudes in matching uniform?

If they're going to get inspired by The Elder Scrolls, I'd like for them to look at Daggerfall. Epic guild system, with randomized quests (many of which having a ton of different ways of being solved).

YES! GREAT game (despite its flaws)

 

[Guest 4149880]

It's a neat concept, but you weren't really forced to pick a side. You can get what you want from a covenant then jump ship to another and get what you want, rinse and repeat. Makes the choices kinda meaningless, know what I mean? Also, I found myself having to stop pvp-ing because of the endless meta-gank-power ranger squads that made the covenants difficult to progress through the way they were intended to be (yeah, you could grind some pve enemies for days or weeks depending on rng, but grinding and rng are a match made in Hell to rob all joy one could possibly derive from an activity). Ever get raped by 3 washing poles from dudes in matching uniform?

I'd say its was more then a concept at this point but no, the covenant system didn't lock you into them and it really shouldn't have based on how the game drives you towards letting you tackle goals at your own leisure. And there was still purpose to use different covenants more then gaining items, that's only the start really. Sure its a great system that could always use some work, like anything.

As far as PvP goes, like it or not, that's just how the game works. Letting the players free to do almost anything they want, and I've seen it all, and I think that kind of gameplay design freedom is surely missing in games anymore, especially for an RPG with tight online components, which is a ghost town for games today. Anyway, If you're an invader of the host world and his buddies, get ready to do battle that's just the nature of the games and I wouldn't expect a fair fight as the goal is to kill them ,no one will lay down for you. Covenant items are rewards for this PvP which is what they were intended for, fighting through and winning. And farming for covenant items certainly doesn't takes weeks as long as the best possible item discovery is reached it doesn't take long, and that's extremely minor farming compared to many games.

I understand the frustration though, its a badass game, tough and unforgiving, but its has some very great mechanics that any great developer should look at and be inspired to make it their own, don't get me wrong, it's certainly not perfect and could always be improved but not many games come to mind that has such a cohesive and tight system that doesn't eventually fall apart, its stays pretty consistent through it all and doesn't let up. As far as you're washing pole incident, i'd say you got lucky, seriously.

 

[BjornTheBandit]

I'd say its was more then a concept at this point but no, the covenant system didn't lock you into them and it really shouldn't have based on how the game drives you towards letting you tackle goals at your own leisure. And there was still purpose to use different covenants more then gaining items, that's only the start really. Sure its a great system that could always use some work, like anything.

As far as PvP goes, like it or not, that's just how the game works. Letting the players free to do almost anything they want, and I've seen it all, and I think that kind of gameplay design freedom is surely missing in games anymore, especially for an RPG with tight online components, which is a ghost town for games today. Anyway, If you're an invader of the host world and his buddies, get ready to do battle that's just the nature of the games and I wouldn't expect a fair fight as the goal is to kill them ,no one will lay down for you. Covenant items are rewards for this PvP which is what they were intended for, fighting through and winning. And farming for covenant items certainly doesn't takes weeks as long as the best possible item discovery is reached it doesn't take long, and that's extremely minor farming compared to many games.

I understand the frustration though, its a badass game, tough and unforgiving, but its has some very great mechanics that any great developer should look at and be inspired to make it their own, don't get me wrong, it's certainly not perfect and could always be improved but not many games come to mind that has such a cohesive and tight system that doesn't eventually fall apart, its stays pretty consistent through it all and doesn't let up. As far as you're washing pole incident, i'd say you got lucky, seriously.

Hahaha, i didn't intend for my tone to imply I didn't like the game. Lots of fun, and few things are as satisfying as finally beating the thrice-damned dancer of the boreal valley... I just got tired of the pvp, and luckily for me, I don't have to participate in it!

 

[Guest 4149880]

Hahaha, i didn't intend for my tone to imply I didn't like the game. Lots of fun, and few things are as satisfying as finally beating the thrice-damned dancer of the boreal valley... I just got tired of the pvp, and luckily for me, I don't have to participate in it!

You like what ya like, no problems. Yeah I think that's the cool options for PvP, is its not forced when your working on a build or farm items you don't have to interrupted by invaders.

 

[SigilFey]

In the beginning, when the earth was without form, and void, there was talk about a "tactical mode" that was never specified (at all).

Ah...so similar to the old style of characters working in tandem to take down enemies. (My bruiser stuns that enemy, my other fighter attacks for an auto-critical against the stunned condition, my mage blasts an AOE attack that finishes it off and whittles the others enemies down...) I think I get you. In a sense, it's exactly what the Dragon Age / Mass Effect series have done. Although, I think it only really shines in DA:O and Inquisition.

Careful with them eyebrows, they're they only ones you have.
There's 3 very nice perspectives in Witcher 1. Top down, high 3rd person, and over the shoulder. And cursor driven gameplay. You could change that to be Top down, OtT and FPP.

I agree that having multiple perspectives would be cool, too. I just did some reading about Cyberpunk; Sardukhar linked to an article that summed up the whole history of the world really nicely. (I was looking for something like that!) It also created a nice parallel to the old Syndicate games (which were awesome). It might be cool to have a perspective like that:

A first-person view for really immersive feel...a third person view to see your glorious character, add more awareness for melee, etc...a zoomed out / Baldur's Gate perspective to get a sense of the area or for stealth...and an aerial view that makes the city the centerpiece. I would see this last, super-zoomed out perspective as something you could use for "fast travel", taking a taxi, hopping on a train, plot an auto-pilot course for your vehicle so you can hang out he window and shoot, etc.

Of course, all perspectives could be swapped at will. Players could remain 100% immersed in the first-person perspective for everything if they want, or they could switch perspectives as the fancy takes them and "direct their own cinematic approach" to the game.

So, yeah. Confirming I like your idea of switching perspectives!

(Looks down and notices an eyebrow on the floor. Eyes widen in horror.)

 

[Suhiira]

So, yeah. Confirming I like your idea of switching perspectives!

I can't think of a single reason why CP2077 should only have one perspective.
Maybe not as many as SigilFey suggested, but certainly 1st and 3rd person.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Ah...so similar to the old style of characters working in tandem to take down enemies.

In a way, yeah. But it can also work with a single character (if you remember Wizardry 8's combat, and change the different characters into "action points").

I don't quite understand how Mass Effect or DA:I relate to this, though. I mean something more robustly an RPG feature, closer to an emulation of a turnbased scenario.

(Looks down and notices an eyebrow on the floor. Eyes widen in horror.)

I told you....

 

[SigilFey]

...if you remember Wizardry 8's combat, and change the different characters into "action points...

Hmmm...more details? I remember the flavor of the Wizardry / Might and Magic / Eye of the Beholder style, as they all basically did the same thing. Not sure I follow what you mean by "changing characters into action points".

To me, the key feature of that combat mechanic was picking complimentary skills for various characters and getting the right sequence of actions down...

I don't quite understand how Mass Effect or DA:I relate to this, though. I mean something more robustly an RPG feature, closer to an emulation of a turnbased scenario.

...which is inherently what the Bioware games do. According to the Wizardy style, various characters had unique skills. e.g. A fighter could cause bleeding damage, a rogue could cause extra damage to any enemy suffering from a damage-over-time effect, and a wizard could cast a haste spell. I could arrange the party so that combat turns went fighter --> wizard --> rogue. My warrior would hit an enemy for bleed damage, my wizard would cast haste on the rogue, and the rogue would go apey-bananas on bleeding enemies each turn, getting extra attacks / criticals / damage.

Similarly, Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, KotOR, Dragon Age, Mass Effect, etc. all incorporate similar systems (only modernized with "pauseable real-time"). I can have my mage freeze an enemy, then have a warrior issue a massive blow that "shatters" frozen enemies for incredible damage. If they live, they're stunned. And it just so happens that my rogue can cause a guaranteed critical to a stunned enemy.

(Struggles a bit, trying to reattach the eyebrow.)

It's a bit more streamlined than the old systems that might have 15-20 possible combos. From what I remember, though, only 3 or 4 worked really well, and I'd just default to those all the time. I don't necessarily mind having fewer but universally effective combos in modern titles.