[Semi OT] Microtransactions, Lootboxes and in-game pay mechanisms - The Thread.

[Sardukhar]

[Semi OT] Microtransactions, Lootboxes and in-game pay mechanisms - The Thread.

So okay. Obviously people want to talk about this and that's great, because ARGH eff-you-I-bought-your-game-why-now-must-I-pay-more-and-oh-look-gambling! business practices.

I think these methods (outside gambling) are -fine- as a fundraiser for a free game or a light-payment game. Devs gotta eat too, bruh.

But otherwise, reaaaaally not a fan. As I'm sure few, if any of you are.

Obviously we're worried this will appear in CP2077 - not likely. But it's kind of a cyberpunk topic on it's own, what with EA shady practices being very much a Cyberpunk Multinational kind of thing to do. Also in the Cyberpunk2020 vein, the EU is coming down against it. Next stop, Eurosolos.

So this thread is to talk about such business practices - not necessarily in 2077 ( we have thread for that AND CDPR is firmly against that) - but as a discussion of how Cyberpunk-style corporate choices are changing our gaming world.

 

[Balloers100]

Thank you very much for making this topic.

I voted both loot boxes and microtransactions are very bad to have sold.

 

[metalmaniac21]

I don't like expansions and DLCs either, the idea of them. What happened with all said and done philisophy?

 

[Sardukhar]

I don't like expansions and DLCs either, the idea of them. What happened with all said and done philisophy?

That would also close out sequels, then. Thus, no Fallout 2 or Fallout New Vegas. Bad!

 

[Gizmo0]

What about option of cosmetics only for voting?

 

[felixsylvaris]

Gambling of any kind should be taged as gambling correctly. So lootbox for cash should be 18+ or something. VG has enought problem with violence PR or being too sexy.
P2W i do not like it, generally avoid such games. But at least they are honest in being unfair.
Cosmetic MTX, in online games they allow to expand game post release, like new maps or modes.
Utility MTX, it is some solution for F2P games. It depends on execution how grindy annoying game is.

GWENT should have higher age rating than Witcher

 

[Balloers100]

Gambling of any kind should be taged as gambling correctly. So lootbox for cash should be 18+ or something. VG has enought problem with violence PR or being too sexy.
P2W i do not like it, generally avoid such games. But at least they are honest in being unfair.
Cosmetic MTX, in online games they allow to expand game post release, like new maps or modes.
Utility MTX, it is some solution for F2P games. It depends on execution how grindy annoying game is.

GWENT should have higher age rating than Witcher

This is false that microtransactions allow for the video game developers to develop and keep on releasing new maps and new game modes for their video games.

Jim Sterling made a YouTube video that says it isn't that expensive to develop video games.

Back before 2009 video game development companies released maps for free for their video games, at least on PC, Activision did, Electronic Arts (EA) did for the Call of Duty video games and the Battlefield video games.

Adding microtransactions to video games is just greed to squeeze every single dollars, Euro, and pound from their customers.

 

[metalmaniac21]

That would also close out sequels, then. Thus, no Fallout 2 or Fallout New Vegas. Bad!

Exclusion of addons doesn't touch sequels, the actual games. C'mon, you're better than that to pull blatant strawman argument. Besides, addons tend to be worse than games they're complementing. Remember 4th episode for original Doom? Yeah, that is a poster child of bad supplement.

Adding microtransactions to video games is just greed to squeeze every single dollars, Euro, and pound from their customers.

Gambling of any kind should be taged as gambling correctly. So lootbox for cash should be 18+ or something.

Forest behind the trees problem. All this situation with tiny DLC for full price and microtransactions of any kind - that's just capitalism 101. Shareholders want to see their profit numbers increasing. 2x,5x,10x. Every, Single. Time. To sell the game to literally everyone. That just can't be happening all the time.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

I don't like expansions and DLCs either

Same, to a certain degree.

I don't care about the sort of mini DLC that gives me items and other useless shit. I also don't really care about isolated "ministories" (compared to the base game) like Blood and Wine or The New Vegas Expansions.

What I would find somewhat interesting is if the additional content added to the dynamics of the game as a whole. A set of new skills for example added on top of the existing ones, a new "faction" that - if you interfere with them, and only then - needs to be taken into account while going about the world. Maybe it might even add a new dynamic to the core storyline (which should be open enough to allow multiple approaches and even "un-approaches"). Stuff like that - that actually adds to the dynamics of the core game - I think I could pay a few jewshekels.

 

[Sardukhar]

Exclusion of addons doesn't touch sequels, the actual games. C'mon, you're better than that to pull blatant strawman argument.

Strawman: "is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. "

Only you -did- present the "said and done philosophy" which would absolutely rule out sequels, a continuation of the story. "Actual game" means what? 40 hours content instead of 20? or 5?

Blood and Wine and Hearts of Stone, as well as the very good and funny Old World Blues for New Vegas are all examples of after-game add-ons that were great fun and value.

Now, if you're saying they withheld content to gouge you later, of course that's crappy. Either charge me more up-front for a bigger game or don't charge me to finish the game I bought.

But when a dev puts in a lot of work for extra content months later, yeah, they should get paid and yeah, I'd like to play that content.

 

[animalfather]

i would love to buy gear that gives me an advantage over other players.

 

[Sardukhar]

i would love to buy gear that gives me an advantage over other players.

Of course you would. Of course.

That's not even vaguely -fair- animal. We try to be fair(ish) in games we play with others. It's one of those fundamental lessons we all learn in KIndergarten.

 

[Guest 4149880]

I vote Cyberpunk Haters Gun Hate Edition, a full retail priced game that you feel obligated to buy the preorder edition to have access to otherwise locked content and some extra useless toys for you kids, buying the collectors edition because it has exclusive content not available to anyone else because you're special, we believe it will make you a better person and gamer. You've Got Gud! Go get them newbs...

The game will include a live auction house, your time is valuable, invest in your future. It will require every and all in game items to cost real money no exceptions regardless of the fact you already bought the game. Its a massive game we apparently spent way to much money making and we don't want it to be a grind we purposely made to irritate the hell out of you. Your time is money.

The best game evar will also force.... erm... include an opportunity for you to gamble and waste your money away, buying loot boxes just to progress, and also special Pay To Win section just for those few ELITE players who maxed out their parents credit card just for a lvl 100 prestige gold weapon and armor set. You earned it, Warriors.

Plus we need your money, it just isn't enough to provide a great enough experience for you. Serving up our gamers loads of empty promises and draining their wallets from the start, Day 1 edition, baby! Get it now before its gone, some how our digital game and content is limited, hmm that's weird. Just do it!

This Super Blockbuster Game of The Century Award Edition will also require you to buy a season pass as well as a small (trust us) permission fee you pay every time you hit the start menu, just for the privilege of playing this game. You're in the club now, feel the pride and accomplishment of belonging. Power to the players! ....may the "F"orce be with yo"U".

 

[metalmaniac21]

Strawman: "is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. "

Only you -did- present the "said and done philosophy" which would absolutely rule out sequels, a continuation of the story. "Actual game" means what? 40 hours content instead of 20? or 5?

Blood and Wine and Hearts of Stone, as well as the very good and funny Old World Blues for New Vegas are all examples of after-game add-ons that were great fun and value.

Now, if you're saying they withheld content to gouge you later, of course that's crappy. Either charge me more up-front for a bigger game or don't charge me to finish the game I bought.

But when a dev puts in a lot of work for extra content months later, yeah, they should get paid and yeah, I'd like to play that content.

I present the said sentence against publishers' sketchy (now just scammy) games' life support practices. And actual game means actual game, no additional whys and whats, Sard.
Sure, the content is fun but I'd rather have a whole new Fallout game over New Vegas' expansion galore if there was a choice, you yourself know what a new Fallout game means, much more hours of fun. But there wasn't.
Witcher 3 I just think the main game is superior and already complete. Or it would be if said and done philosophy would apply to it but we wouldn't have unfinished content brought back as mini-DLCs. But at least they're free, that's nice but I won't disregard PR function like most people do. Wait a sec, CDPR did sold us previously cut Skellige deck with tacked on Blood and Wine expansion just to justify it!

 

[cyberpunkforever]

i will buy the game and expansions
i wont buy any lootboxes or any kind of microtransaction
i hope that this game doesn't have any kind of MT

 

[Balloers100]

i will buy the game and expansions
i wont buy any lootboxes or any kind of microtransaction
i hope that this game doesn't have any kind of MT

I don't know what country you live in but the government of the United States of America is writing a legislation to make into law that loot boxes and microtransactions become illegal in video games. A senator from Hawaii is working with all 49 states to get it up and running.

The Belgian government declared loot boxes gambling.

Australia's government declared loot boxes gambling.

A French senator sent to the French government to make loot boxes gambling and probably illegal depending on what the French government works out.

So if you live in like any of these four countries chances are Cyberpunk 2077 will not have any loot boxes or microtransactions.

 

[Suhiira]

I don't know what country you live in but the government of the United States of America is writing a legislation to make into law that loot boxes and microtransactions become illegal in video games. A senator from Hawaii is working with all 49 states to get it up and running.

They're not trying to outlaw lootboxes, merely regulate the gambling aspects of their current implementation.

 

[eraser7278]

They're not trying to outlaw lootboxes, merely regulate the gambling aspects of their current implementation.

however the status of online gambling is murky in the US, with individual states having their own laws on the subject. Even where it's not expressly illegal, the attorney general has gone after online gambling sites using money laundering statutes and the like. so getting lootboxes labeled as gambling would be tantamount to killing them outright, since publishers have already told us what a hardship it is to release censored variants just for Australia... they couldn't possibly do that for each and every state, or police copies being sold across state lines

 

[Sardukhar]

so getting lootboxes labeled as gambling would be tantamount to killing them outright, since publishers have already told us what a hardship it is to release censored variants just for Australia... they couldn't possibly do that for each and every state, or police copies being sold across state lines

Yerp.

Sadly it probably means they'll rig it so the gambling element is lessened or avoided. Or, in a torturously long court fight, reference it as a subset of gaming in general - sort of like when you subscribe to WoW, engage in a Raid and then have to roll on loot.

I'm not saying it's fair or right - but it's an argument that they can make. And probably will, if forced.

The thing is, it's worth millions - so you can bet the industry will defend the practice.

 

[Guest 4149880]

The greedy companies aren't going to give up the big bucks without a fight and will find loopholes in what ever law they enact to continue implementing the same features in another way. They aren't going to stop, its up to the consumers to finally get so fed up, that companies are no longer making their money. Regardless of views on the matter, the fight to change these bad business practices is happening.