Nilfgaard Handbuff Still Needs a Nerf

[Khreygond]

well, it's pretty automatic...UNLESS you are playing something that interacts with it. A hard control deck that can take out knights and big targets via AC/Mandrake will change the way they play. So will a Reveal deck packing concealers like Masters of Disguise (which actually work more often than mangonels, just gonna put that out there). I've won against it with a bricked Cahir because of a crucial conceal of the Knight, making 2 Spotters from STR 23 to STR 10.

 

[Barracuda88]

Running the same successful lists/strategies is not the same as running the same game start to finish every time, regardless of what your opponent is doing.

Sure, Greatswords, Alchemy, Machines will all have the basic plan, but they will still need to somewhat account for the other guy. Even Cleaver-elves will hold Iorveth until you give him a good target for example. Handbuff, though, just plows on the same way every time, because it can do nothing else.

PLOP 25-point bronze.
Oh, is it an engine? PLOP 25 point bronze.
Oh, scorch? PLOP 25 point bronze.
Oh, weather? PLOP 25 point bronze.
Oh damn, that's an interesting 3-card combo you got there... PLOP 25-point bronze.

If you, as you say, hard counter it by either removing all Knights/Manticores early, or concealing, etc., it basically can do NOTHING. It folds on itself, game over.

 

[NomanPeopled]

It is of course one of the decks that aim for noninteraction in favor of power output. When all goes well, it'll just spam the board with beef. Much like Skellige or Henselt or Mulligan or what-have you.

But yeah, like ser2440 said, Handbuff has to adapt to meddling (including the power output on the opposing side) like any other deck.

 

[Void_Singer]

I will actually agree with those that say it isn't very interactive and very formulaic... even the spear version.... 99% of it's decisions are Row/Order/BuffTarget. although playing around Villen is amusing because the best play is to shield buff the opponent... But the same complaint can be made for most SK decks, and most muster/spam too... even Henselt to an extent

 

[Pounc3e]

Serrit doesn't work because units are boosted by base strength, thus damaging a unit to 1 strength does nothing.

Now, this is just silly really, as Serrit should be able to damage a base strength unit and set it to 1 base strength, makes sense doesn't it? Prefer this way of how Serrit works than now, which can't damage and lower the base strength.

All in all, Serrit ability should be like this "Set a revealed opposing unit's base strength to 1".

Regards,
byExeplar

 

[NomanPeopled]

Not that I'm opposed to such a change, but neither do I see how it makes sense. Do you mean it would be more intuitive?

Damage effects are the norm, weaken effects are the outlier, and there's only one card that sets base power to X that I can think of.

 

[Barracuda88]

Now, this is just silly really, as Serrit should be able to damage a base strength unit and set it to 1 base strength, makes sense doesn't it? Prefer this way of how Serrit works than now, which can't damage and lower the base strength.

All in all, Serrit ability should be like this "Set a revealed opposing unit's base strength to 1".

Regards,
byExeplar

Having him damage a unit gives the other player a chance to heal it with a reset or mulligan it away at least. I don't really feel it "should" set its base strength to 1 instead. It's bad enough it messes with your stuff before it even hits the deck. Also, it's not completely useless against handbuff. The other day I hit the 21-point knight with it: his finisher is now 1 point strong instead of 21. That's a good 20 point play.

 

[NomanPeopled]

Ya, I think I even mentioned that somewhere during the mesozoic era of this thread. Unless Handbuff has a reset (Peter, realistically), both Serrit and Venendal are basically +1CA.
If it does have Peter, then it's still playing a 9 power swing alongside its big dude rather than mulling him for a shot at another big dude.

 

[iamthedave]

Does that mean Venendral Elite doesn't block this combo?

 

[151Huntsman]

Well, with all the nerf-blasting that's just taken place to shake up the playfield, and with the general disclaimer being 'those bronze units were just getting too much value', how the heck did they miss the Nilfgaardian Knight + Mandrake/Mardroeme + Emhyr combo? Because the keyword on mandrake and mardroeme is 'strengthen' and not 'boost', this leaves the player with either an 18 or a 15 powered Nilfgaardian Knight sitting pretty in the hand - that one card is then completely sploited to barf out 23 or 20 powered spotters, followed by ointments to dig up the spotters (b/c conveniently, the spotters 'boost' off the strengthened Nilfgaardian Knight, so they go back to the grave as 5s ... then you have the Vic Novices to make sure you get the ointments, meanwhile you've also got Magne Division to drag out Wyvern Scale Shields to boost other units with, you guessed it, that same Nilfgaardian Knight. There are probably a few other cards I'm forgetting while I ramble here, but you get the point. These bronze cards are beating the socks off any other bronze cards they could've been complaining about in the series, yet here they still stand. Just curious what the reasoning was behind allowing this one to stay while busting up less powerful (imo) combinations.

In that picture you have a 3 card advantage... So i dont know what are you complaining about, start putting some points on the board. NG Handboost has a lot of problems, for example, Magne Division pulls random special cards, so it can pull Ointment, while you have nothing to res. A lot of times, just to pull off the combo, I go two cards down in R1, especially since opponents know how to counter. Yes, I might win the round, but quite often in R3 I am 1 card down, so it balances out in the end. Then there are plenty of devastating counters - Scorch, Villentretenmerth, Mandrake/Vesemir, Schirru, Aglais, Compression, other cards can res your Spotters and use them against you gaining advantage and preventing your Ointment. So, overall, no NG Nilfgaard is not OP. Last season I had around 40% winrate, thats not OP. I wish it was, then maybe I would get Grandmaster Rank

 

[Void_Singer]

Does that mean Venendral Elite doesn't block this combo?

correct. Venedal's are still a damage effect. it does rob them of that units power when played though, so it's still not a bad play. it's actually worth ~32pts overall (16+for the handbuffs loss, and 16+ gain for the Venedal player)

 

[NomanPeopled]

Does that mean Venendral Elite doesn't block this combo?

Yup. Venendal's text is sort of unclear on this, but it damages the unit in hand and buffs itself. Shield and Spotter both key off of base power which remains untouched.
Still plenty good against Handbuff though.

 

[Batholon]

While it is annoying to have them barf multiple 20+ stat minions per turn, they are also susceptible to a well-timed scorch and open to reset effects.

Nilfgaard alchemy can utilize their spotters.

Using Vicovaro Medic can deny their Ointments. Sweers can potentially make their spotters a one time use (with ointments).

You can tech against them, but is it worth it? Depends on how frequently you face such a deck. You can accept losing to them once in a while if it means winning other decks.

 

[Mancoon1980]

nerf handbuff

Honestly I'm hoping a nerf is coming in the next patch this month. No way to counter this unless you play a SC and pack scorchs which also is unhealthy for the game having multiple. Forces players to only have one option and in turn build all decks similar. I'd have to make a deck full of mushrooms and mandrake. At least remove the shield, spotters can go too although they are alright in normal reveal this I'm sure wad not the intended purpose. 3 tutors to shield that gives them 6 or more 20 point bronze cards, their triss in there for a 7th. Really annoying.

 

[Jeydra]

No way to counter this unless you play a SC and pack scorchs

Neutral: Geralt: Igni, Villentretenmerth, Letho+Regis, Scorch, Artefact Compression, Mandrake (possibly with Vesemir: Mentor) Mardroeme, Merigold's Hailstorm, Bekker's Dark Mirror, Dimeritium Bomb, Geralt: Yrden
Monsters: Miruna, Whispess into Mandrake, Cockatrice
Northern Realms: Sabrina Glevessig, Witch Hunter, Margarita of Aretuza
Skellige: Coral
Nilfgaard: Yenn: Enchantress (with Scorch / Compression / Mandrake), Peter Saar Gwynleve, Menno Coehoorn (with Infiltrator), Vilgefortz (to some extent)

This doesn't include "out-tempo them while they're buffing and returning their Knight to hand" and "execute your gameplan better".

 

[Mancoon1980]

Neutral: Geralt: Igni, Villentretenmerth, Letho+Regis, Scorch, Artefact Compression, Mandrake (possibly with Vesemir: Mentor) Mardroeme, Merigold's Hailstorm, Bekker's Dark Mirror, Dimeritium Bomb, Geralt: Yrden
Monsters: Miruna, Whispess into Mandrake, Cockatrice
Northern Realms: Sabrina Glevessig, Witch Hunter, Margarita of Aretuza
Skellige: Coral
Nilfgaard: Yenn: Enchantress (with Scorch / Compression / Mandrake), Peter Saar Gwynleve, Menno Coehoorn (with Infiltrator), Vilgefortz (to some extent)

This doesn't include "out-tempo them while they're buffing and returning their Knight to hand" and "execute your gameplan better".

And none of these are viable against the meta today. Only ones that see play is igni on occasion and mandrake which I mentioned.

 

[Jeydra]

And none of these are viable against the meta today. Only ones that see play is igni on occasion and mandrake which I mentioned.

https://gwentup.com/report/18/16, usage rates at 3900+, double-digits usage rates only:

Villentretenmerth: 22% Morvran, 45.7% Henselt, 14.6% Radovid, 61.6% Adda, 12.2% Eithne
Letho/Regis: 33.8% Morvran
Scorch: 42% Morvran, 20.3% Foltest, 40.9% Radovid, 85.4% Henselt, 84.9% Adda, 64.3% Eithne
Miruna: 12% Eredin, 22.2% Unseen Elder, 15.6% Dagon, 16.1% Whispering Hillock
Margarita: 24.5% Foltest, 16.2% Radovid
Coral: 92% Bran, 94.3% Crach, 93.6% Eist
Yenn: Enchantress: 27.7% Morvran

Not going through all of them.

 

[halftrolll]

Lost match to NG Handbuff with 5-3 card advantage. Please fix.

I just lost to handbuff with a 2 card advantage in round 3. wtf.

I played r1 and 2 in such a way that I made it to round 3 not one, but TWO cards ahead of my opponent. However, because NG handbuff can play 24 point bronzes, I still managed to lose the game when he played 64 points from three bronze cards. Why is this allowed to happen?

I passed r1 to him to force him to go two cards down to set up his knight in hand, took the two cards up all the way through to r3, and still lost. I don't understand how I could have possibly set myself up for success more than that.

 

[Pruny]

Plenty of braindead decks now, cdpr havent patched this game in ages.
Best counter is scorch and compresion, but i lost once after compresing 2knights and scorching manticore because they buffed asire after that.

 

[Mancoon1980]

Yeah it's a terrible cheap deck to play against.