Johnny + V relationship is poorly written [Spoilers]

[_Fender_]

I dont think its poorly written. Yes if you want to be mean all the time for him you will probably feel lack of some dialogue options but I never had that problem. I was arguing with him sometimes but never felt a need to hate him or something like that. Oil field conversation is great for me no matter which direction you choose. I woudnt definitely say that writers did a bad job.

Yes, the only problem with JS relationship is when you start taking side missions before you talk with Takemura at diner - seems totally off but thats open world problem rather than writing.

 

[Grindders]

Yes, the only problem with JS relationship is when you start taking side missions before you talk with Takemura at diner - seems totally off but thats open world problem rather than writing.

The Witcher 3 didn't have that problem. You could go through any quest in any order and the characters always reacted correctly.
Try to do the quest with Baron's daughter after Novigrad and the dialogue with her will change - Geralt will know who the Witch Hunters are and will mention that he encountered them in Novigrad.
Try to find Hjalmar before the story quest on Skellige and all the dialogues in that quest will change - Geralt will have a different motivation to save him.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

The Witcher 3 didn't have that problem. You could go through any quest in any order and the characters always reacted correctly.
Try to do the quest with Baron's daughter after Novigrad and the dialogue with her will change - Geralt will know who the Witch Hunters are and will mention that he encountered them in Novigrad.
Try to find Hjalmar before the story quest on Skellige and all the dialogues in that quest will change - Geralt will have a different motivation to save him.

Yes and No
In TW3, it's few quests (and the main quests) . All the other quests are totaly independants.
In CP, there are a lot GIG, Side quests where you would need to have different dialogue for different choices with jhonny. It's just too much and not possible ( Well it's my opinion )

 

[Czembro]

Yes and No
In TW3, it's few quests (and the main quests) . All the other quests are totaly independants.
In CP, there are a lot GIG, Side quests where you would need to have different dialogue for different choices with jhonny. It's just too much and not possible ( Well it's my opinion )

They could've literally block Johnny from appearing in some side quests before certain point/disposition is reached. I don't think it would be that hard, it's just the writing that is completely railroaded and unless player go the specific route the devs designed, he/she will have some immersion breakers. Not only that - the first main story quest after The Heist,

Spoiler: CP77 spoilers

when you have to meet with Takemura have the optional objective of reading the message from megabuilding H10 administration, which literally tells you this:

so it's pretty obvious that player may go to the car, right? And what happens when V enters the car? That's right, a Delamain quest starts, which triggers friendly chat with Johnny, just a few minutes after he wanted to kill V and before talking with him in Tom's Diner.

All of this was specifically written and implemented by the creators of this game and for me this is just a bad writing.

 

[_Fender_]

I wouldnt blame writers for not anticipating all the possible ways people will play through. Story is fine and all of pieces are there - its just game mechanics were designed in a simplier way and we can encounter things like that. The easiest way would be to block all the sidequests before you meet takemura.

 

[Czembro]

I wouldnt blame writers for not anticipating all the possible ways people will play through. Story is fine and all of pieces are there - its just game mechanics were designed in a simplier way and we can encounter things like that. The easiest way would be to block all the sidequests before you meet takemura.

They've written this quest in such a way, that you are receiving a message telling you to pick up your car before meeting Takemura, and then written the Delamain quest to trigger on entering said car, which triggers chat with Johnny. I would understand if it was only a player's doing that he/she can encounter this talk, but they are literally hinting the player to check out the car before going on the meeting so no, this is writers/creators doing that those inconsistencies are there, and they are actively pushing player towards them.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

I think, we always comeback at the same point.
If we asked the Devs (those who really work on game) if they are satisfied with the game now. They probably reply no at all, and know these problems, but no time to work on it

I can't believe nobody at CDPR noticed this kind of problem. But someone (a financier) must have told them that it was not so bad and that the game had to be released like that...

 

[pndrad]

I'm hoping they can fix this game's story and characters, but truly I have started to doubt it.

 

[Ayinde_Palmer]

They could've literally block Johnny from appearing in some side quests before certain point/disposition is reached. I don't think it would be that hard, it's just the writing that is completely railroaded and unless player go the specific route the devs designed, he/she will have some immersion breakers. Not only that - the first main story quest after The Heist,

Spoiler: CP77 spoilers

when you have to meet with Takemura have the optional objective of reading the message from megabuilding H10 administration, which literally tells you this:
View attachment 11207683
so it's pretty obvious that player may go to the car, right? And what happens when V enters the car? That's right, a Delamain quest starts, which triggers friendly chat with Johnny, just a few minutes after he wanted to kill V and before talking with him in Tom's Diner.

All of this was specifically written and implemented by the creators of this game and for me this is just a bad writing.

friendly chat is an overstatement, the convo is like WTF did you see that car, Johnny shrugs, V: that doesn't seem like delamain. Johnny disappears. Getting almost smashed by a car by surprise tends to make people react regardless of the current relationship.

Even if thats unacceptable, the writing level of a book isn't decided by one line. Much less a variable interactive narrative.

 

[AikoHayashi]

The game has around 80 side quests, 86 GIGS, 17 cyberpsychos, 156 NCPD Scanner Hustle Locations (112 Assaults, 17 Organized Crimes, 27 Reported Crimes) and then we have the main missions. While NCPD are basic, all the rest include dialogs and etc. I think it is rather difficult to organize all dialogs and triggers and to keep into account what V has already done or not. Yeah, it can break the immersion, but I'm still glad that there is so much to do in the game.

 

[Bloodartist]

Delamain cab rushes trough mine (guess I triggered the quest already), ruining it and then Johnny appears next to me in passenger seat and V starts friendly auto-dialogue with him?...

In "meet Takemura in Tom's diner" -scene, Johnny shows up afterwards and tells that he has sorta accepted the situation and starts acting more friendly. But that's honestly the only scene where he does that, the only scene that explains the situation. Its quite jarring to skip that scene and go directly into the other more unrelated Johnny scenes where he always acts aloof or friendly. Overall the effect is super awkward.

But I'm even more annoyed by what feels like an hour-long extended railroad scene at the start of chapter 2, after meeting Dex in No-tell motel. Its SUPER LONG and is going on forever, and player has no power over what is happening. I rate the story as a whole really low.

 

[Netrunner2go]

The game has around 80 side quests, 86 GIGS, 17 cyberpsychos, 156 NCPD Scanner Hustle Locations (112 Assaults, 17 Organized Crimes, 27 Reported Crimes) and then we have the main missions. While NCPD are basic, all the rest include dialogs and etc. I think it is rather difficult to organize all dialogs and triggers and to keep into account what V has already done or not. Yeah, it can break the immersion, but I'm still glad that there is so much to do in the game.

imo they could have cut missions/gigs by half and made the openworld more lively with interactions and minigames instead... overall i like most of the missions but at some point they feel a bit copy pasted... go there get this - done, go there kill him/her - done... the main story quest are nice but the gigs feel repetitive after a while : /

 

[Martind_Forlon_]

Oil Fields dialogue and dialogues options in hotel in Pacifica where Johnny takes V after collapse are imo the weakest parts in imo quite well written story between Johnny and V.

Choices like 'a guy who saved my life' and that one saying that V would take bullet instead Johnny are not something what I would choose (played so far 3x), because they make sense only in very limited 'more as very friendly' relation between Johnny and V. There is no place for most common case when they 'agree to work together because it's the best way for survival'. V and Johnny then both have more occasions to make favour to each other (and become friends) which imo are good written and personally I like it.

These two (one) poor dialogues would be imo no issue at all, if they were not so tied to secret ending. This is, how I see it, the biggest fail in otherwise well prepared main/side story plot.

 

[AikoHayashi]

imo they could have cut missions/gigs by half and made the openworld more lively with interactions and minigames instead... overall i like most of the missions but at some point they feel a bit copy pasted... go there get this - done, go there kill him/her - done... the main story quest are nice but the gigs feel repetitive after a while : /

I play on PC, max crowd. For me, the world is already quite lively, but I also don't expect to have conversations with random NPCs. Even nowadays if you walk in the big city and stop random strangers the most of them will not even bother to stop and talk to you. Further while roaming through the city you can hear random conversations and etc. The density of the crowd is good, the industrial zones in the city feel empty but this is like this also in the real life. I think that people expect that Cyberpunk should combine all good things taken from hundreds of existing games. All I know is that when I play the game I don't have the feeling that I've played something like this before (like it is with most of the games nowadays). Plus they are still busy with improving the game so we haven't seen everything yet.

Post automatically merged: Apr 9, 2021

Oil Fields dialogue and dialogues options in hotel in Pacifica where Johnny takes V after collapse are imo the weakest parts in imo quite well written story between Johnny and V.

Choices like 'a guy who saved my life' and that one saying that V would take bullet instead Johnny are not something what I would choose (played so far 3x), because they make sense only in very limited 'more as very friendly' relation between Johnny and V. There is no place for most common case when they 'agree to work together because it's the best way for survival'. V and Johnny then both have more occasions to make favour to each other (and become friends) which imo are good written and personally I like it.

These two (one) poor dialogues would be imo no issue at all, if they were not so tied to secret ending. This is, how I see it, the biggest fail in otherwise well prepared main/side story plot.

Tapeworm: V almost flatlined and lost consciousness and it was Johnny who took everything in his hands and brought V to a hotel in Pacifica. Technically he saved V's life.

 

[Martind_Forlon_]

Tapeworm: V almost flatlined and lost consciousness and it was Johnny who took everything in his hands and brought V to a hotel in Pacifica. Technically he saved V's life.

He saved his life too, its not something what would benefit only V and it is also not favour which is V doing with knowingly giving Johny control. It clearly is in the best Johny interest to keep V alive and functional .. and mainly on good relation because she/him still have possibility to decide what she/he want to do with her/his body. Johny is doing favour to V while he is offering advices and help with his knowledge about persons (or situations) which he knew in the past. This are moments which V benefits the most.

... and that moment mentioned in quote is after (much after) talk in oil field ...

 

[_Fender_]

I guess for people who dont feel like "A guy that save my live" is their type of thing writers prepared some alternatives so at any point you`re not forced to say that, right? I dont understand big problem here. In my first playthrough I picked that one and it felt natural for me because I felt connection with Johnny by that time. Think its fine as long as you have a choice - and you do.

 

[Netrunner2go]

I guess for people who dont feel like "A guy that save my live" is their type of thing writers prepared some alternatives so at any point you`re not forced to say that, right? I dont understand big problem here. In my first playthrough I picked that one and it felt natural for me because I felt connection with Johnny by that time. Think its fine as long as you have a choice - and you do.

yea u have options but its rumored that u need that specific one for the secret ending option - cant confirm if its true or not tho. ^^

Post automatically merged: Apr 9, 2021

I think that people expect that Cyberpunk should combine all good things taken from hundreds of existing games.

i didnt meant the crowd or density - i meant this line in specific. you cant blame people expecting it - if they advertised the world as interactive what obviously is just not the case.

 

[_Fender_]

Yes you need one to unlock one of the endings and so what? This is a game where actions should have reactions. If you`re not close enough with JS than that one is not for you. Never heard thats its mandatory to have secret ending no matter what.

 

[Czembro]

Yes you need one to unlock one of the endings and so what? This is a game where actions should have reactions. If you`re not close enough with JS than that one is not for you. Never heard thats its mandatory to have secret ending no matter what.

Cause it doesn't make sense. Why do we need for Johnny to give V this option of storming Arasaka tower by him/herself? This is absolutely artificial choice with no logic behind it, which just shows that it was written with the requirement of good relationship with Johnny, when it shouldn't and doesn't matter in this scenario, cause in the end it's V who does all the work regardless of how much we like or dislike Johnny. If anything it's "The Sun" ending that should be gatekept behind good disposition with Johnny, cause this would actually make more sense, with Secret Ending being just sort of hardcore mode ending, but it should be available as V's decision even if he/she doesn't get along with Johnny.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Hey guy, it's just a simple story
And just like in all storys, there is some things i don't like, some other i realy love (like everyone, i hope). But it's CDPR's story and i play it as they want it to be