DirectX 12 reveald at GDC 2014 by Microsoft, AMD, and Nvidia

[ballowers100]

Developers who have to deal with it really care. Choice of technology will determine where their programs could be used. MS could shove their closed APIs on people only because of the market domination. With the situation changing, it will only backfire on them, when people will stop using MS exclusive APIs, because they care about better platforms coverage.

Consoles wise, I think Steam machines will deal a really fatal blow to Xbox. That would spell the end of DirectX potentially, but it will take time. Valve did something really incredible here - practically managed to lay a foundation of dismantling MS monopoly.

Well just so you know I am a video game developer. No I am not selling any video games or worked on any video games that are for sale and have been released for sale.

I started modding in 1998 when I purchased my first PC when I purchased my first PC video game Unreal. In 2002 when the PC version of The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind released for sale I was modding it and in 2002 is also when I started learning how to code and script every now and then. Then in 2010 I went to college learning C, C++, Visual Basics, and Java Script for 3 years.

I use Unreal Engine 3, CryEngine 3, now CryEngine every week. Soon hopefully Unreal Engine 4. I also use DirectX 9, DirectX 10, and DirectX 11.

CD Projekt RED also seem to prefer DirectX over OpenGL. They announced they will support Linux on gog.com this year in the Fall but they said Microsoft offers better tools for DirectX. VALVe, AMD, Intel, and Nvidia are working on developing better tools for OpenGL now.

So we will see what CD Projekt RED says about OpenGL in a year from now or 2 years from now.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

@ballowers100: see this article which I linked in another thread. It sums up the points I made above quite well:
http://www.develop-online.net/tools...os-becoming-ripe-for-game-development/0190717

Sure, DirectX is still dominant, and even has better tools so far. But things are changing, and changing fast. Developments of the last several years look nothing short of amazing.

 

[ballowers100]

@ballowers100: see this article which I linked in another thread. It sums up the points I made above quite well:
http://www.develop-online.net/tools...os-becoming-ripe-for-game-development/0190717

Sure, DirectX is still dominant, and even has better tools so far. But things are changing, and changing fast. Developments of the last several years look nothing short of amazing.

I know that it's why I said VALVe, AMD, Intel, and Nvidia are working hard on developing better tools for Linux and OpenGL like debuggers, etc.

Still though we need Microsoft in the video game industry and developing Operating Systems OS's). Because competition is good.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

I agree with that. Competition is good. I don't think MS or Xbox will just disappear, but they'll open up under competition pressure such as in adding OpenGL support to Xbox or for example MS opening up DirectX completely or something of that sort.

They first didn't want to implement WebGL in the browser as well, but eventually gave in since competition was stronger than their grip on the Web.

 

[ballowers100]

I agree with that. Competition is good. I don't think MS or Xbox will just disappear, but they'll open up under competition pressure such as in adding OpenGL support to Xbox or for example MS opening up DirectX completely or something of that sort.

They first didn't want to implement WebGL in the browser as well, but eventually gave in since competition was stronger than their grip on the Web.

There actually are rumors that Microsoft wants to open up it's framework to more than just Microsoft products. Even possibly opening up DirectX to work on Linux, MAC, whatever.

Microsoft wants more of their software to be opened up on iOS. This one is a known fact.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

May be. But their bad reputation will follow them like a shadow. People still can be reluctant to use their APIs even if they are supposedly open, knowing how nasty can MS be as a patent aggressor. Unless MS will really release them without hidden patent risks.

 

[volsung]

Heh, wow. Really?

If you really have to wonder why some people dislike Microsoft, go read what has been going on in this same forum. I'll summarize some points in case anyone's interested:

- Microsoft develops closed technologies and API's and shoves them down companies throats attempting to pass them as standards, which they aren't.
- Microsoft is above all a business, and will not hesitate to absorb any technology they can get their paws on, then proceeding to exploit it and profit from it.
- Microsoft doesn't innovate; it lets others take risks and then steals,--err borrows their success.
- Microsoft frequently uses its economical and social influence to establish itself with pure speculation, with nothing to actually offer. See Vaporware (Thanks Guy!).

And let's not even get into the quality of their software or their methodologies. Or ethics. In many ways M$ is the enemy of truly DRM-free gaming.

Also this: http://vimeo.com/70498601

 

[dragonbird]

Or ethics. If anyone really cares about DRM-free gaming, I don't see how they can be satisfied with Windows and not care about Linux gaming.

Stay away from criticising gamers. This is about MS, not those who use their products.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

Also this: http://vimeo.com/70498601

Haha, that's a good one. Bill Gates can rightfully be considered an architect of this nasty MS culture. It all goes way back to his infamous "open letter to hobbyists": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Letter_to_Hobbyists

 

[volsung]

Stay away from criticising gamers. This is about MS, not those who use their products.

Sorry. Went back and rephrased that.

 

[ballowers100]

Heh, wow. Really?

If you really have to wonder why some people dislike Microsoft, go read what has been going on in this same forum. I'll summarize some points in case anyone's interested:

- Microsoft develops closed technologies and API's and shoves them down companies throats attempting to pass them as standards, which they aren't.
- Microsoft is above all a business, and will not hesitate to absorb any technology they can get their paws on, then proceeding to exploit it and profit from it.
- Microsoft doesn't innovate; it lets others take risks and then steals,--err borrows their success.
- Microsoft frequently uses its economical and social influence to establish itself with pure speculation, with nothing to actually offer. See Vaporware (Thanks Guy!).

And let's not even get into the quality of their software or their methodologies. Or ethics. In many ways M$ is the enemy of truly DRM-free gaming.

Also this: http://vimeo.com/70498601

Sorry. I do not agree with you that Microsoft is the enemy of truly Digital Rights Management (DRM) free video games. Steam is the enemy here. Some PC gamers think Steam is not Digital Rights Management (DRM) when it is.

I prefer to purchase the PC versions of my video games in physical boxes from brick and mortar retailer stores 100% Digital Rights Management (DRM) free.

A 100% digital future is unacceptable to me.

If a 100% Digital Rights Management (DRM) free physical boxed versions of the PC version of video games is sold to brick and mortar retailer stores world wide I will purchase that as well as 1 copy from gog.com and 1 copy from Steam.. If PC versions of video games are sold exclusively on Steam only then I will not be purchasing those PC versions of video games at all (Indie video games excluded.).

 

[Mataresa]

I agree, that steam is worse, DRM-wise. Also I would want to keep MS for competition.
I am in general sceptical towards Valve. They already have way too much power with steam, if Steam boxes with Steam OS now become succesfull and push other consoles aside, they have such a high monopoly, that it can only be bad. (Which they already have with Steam in online distribution, luckily there are some competitors, even if they are less relevant. And I don't like how pricing and constant sales are dumping game prices and making it harder to develop big experiences for core gamers without dlc bullshit, microtransactions and rushed development and make it affordable.) I like the idea, but I sincerely hope, that this becomes a trend that is followed by several producers.
Though I really want cross platform supporting technologies.

 

[sidspyker]

Can we get this topic back to being about DirectX12 and not DRM(yet again......)

 

[Mataresa]

I don't know, I am underwhelmed with the reveal. It seems all words and unspecific. Haven't seen anything saying. Oh yes, this with be great... Did I miss something?

 

[Sirnaq]

I am sure as hell i am not buying another windows license for this.

 

[volsung]

Can we get this topic back to being about DirectX12 and not DRM(yet again......)

OK let's recap. MS announces Dx12 but has nothing to show, we suspect it's yet another business move to keep control which ultimately affects true innovation. People ask why some dislike MS and DRM inevitably shows up. It really is all connected.

Steam may be rising as a monopoly but MS is a well established monopoly. We can choose not to buy from Steam but unless we support non Microsoft technologies we won't have a choice on where to play PC games. Dx 12 will be released for Microsoft platforms which effectively negates this choice. So it's fair to say that if Microsoft wants to move into the current century tbey have to stop using restrictive and monopolistic policies. This applies to DirectX 12. And just like with consoles, restricting game design and development to proprietary tech from ONE company potentially limits progress.

Additionally many of us here care about DRM, which Windows uses extensively, and the last thing we want is to perpetuate the presence of DRM, right?

Cheers!

 

[Garrison72]

I smell vaporware. Product that won't be on market for a year and a half, announced shortly after a whole lot of design wins for a competitor's product (Mantle). Microsoft's objective with DX12 is not to sell Windows or Windows games. It's to make developers change their mind about supporting Mantle.

MS philosophy in a nutshell.

 

[GuyNwah]

Moderator: The topic at hand is DirectX; DRM is off topic, and posts attempting to raise questions of DRM will be transferred to this topic: http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/16563-What-does-DRM-achieve-and-does-piracy-equal-lost-sales

 

[Username.]

Relevant:

If you want to get a developer’s attention, all you need to do is start dropping whole numbers.

Offer something that’s not 1.2 times better — but two or three times better — you know you’ve got them.

That’s the good news we teamed up with AMD and Intel to deliver at this week’s Game Developer Conference in San Francisco.

GDCLogoAMD’s Graham Sellers, Intel’s Tim Foley, and our own Cass Everitt and John McDonald appeared on the same panel to explain the high-level concepts available in today’s OpenGL implementations that reduce driver overhead by up to 10x or more.

With OpenGL, an open, vendor-neutral standard, developers can get significantly better performance – up to 1.3 times. But with a little tuning, they can get 7 to 15 times more performance.

That’s a figure that will make any developer sit up and listen.

Better still: the techniques presented apply to all major vendors and are suitable for use across multiple platforms. And they brought demos, showing what these improvements mean on real world systems.

That’s because OpenGL can cut through the driver overhead that has been a frustrating reality for game developers since the beginning of the PC game industry.

On desktop systems, driver overhead can decrease frame rate. On mobile devices, however, driver overhead is even more insidious, robbing both battery life and frame rate.

http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2014/03/20/opengl-gdc2014/

 

[ballowers100]

Relevant:



http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2014/03/20/opengl-gdc2014/

Shouldn't this be posted in the OpenGL topic? This is for discussing DirectX 12 and what versions of Windows might support it. DirectX 12 is trying to accomplish what OpenGL and Mantle are accomplishing.