This game is going to be an RPG, there is going to be an inventory system, you should be able to carry as much as you want within reason.. As long as you have some inventory space or if you are not carrying more weight then your strength allows you to should be able to carry as much as you want.. Difference shouldn't be how many weapons you can carry, but how many weapons you can instantly switch between.. Your backpack or whatever should be able to take as much as it is able to take and your inventory space should be based on that...
Are you insinuating that all weapons will act the same, or at least in a very similar matter? That I have to disagree with.
A shotgun will have a very different overall in-game effect to a sniper rifle, as would an SMG or a handgun. But I can address the rest of this point in a moment...
They are also the two largest FPS franchises available at this time. That is why I used them as examples, not because I thought they were perfect.
And the traditional format of level design smacks of being linear and predictable, two things that 2077 is not meant to be. In an open world game with a non-linear storyline you should not simply be able to suddenly find a suprisingly handy means of solving all your problems in your immediate location.Things like level design are there to prevent things like being stuck
Whats wrong with variables? Frankly I ENJOY variables. They make things fun and less predicatable and most importanly, they provide the capacity for alternative options.
Also, this is going to be a pure RPG, so why should it be about 'getting the best efficiency'? You are forgetting the very core value of Cyberpunk - "STYLE OVER SUBSTANCE'.
Also, ever heard the phrase “The fastest reload is a second gun”?
99% of the weapons seen in the weapon thread are in for hitscan/high speed projectile properties that make for high individual power (and thus good team play), which can only be treated with different damage output and bullet spread. Extreme customization will eventually turn them into something close to snipers (low bulletspread coupled with higher dmg+ random dmg type and stuff).
Also they won't obviously be balanced against each other to avoid fragmentation of weapons that should be one and thus become redundant. Loadouts are possibly the best way to go and no harder than weapon's role balancing (not C77 roles ffs).
Faint praise.
Ever heard about multi approach and multi path stealth from deus ex.
lol, weight and mass affecting character ones DO NOT make things fun right because they make things unpredictable. What you described is a slow and imprecise inventory about a lot of dragging and testing and ultimately very open to gimmicky weapons that poison gameplay (because of the lack of restrictions), while ammo shouldn't be bound to any kind of stuff or limitation that isn't an ammo pack since it's the less intrusive addition to your inventory (and still, dragging weapons out in favour of loads of ammo is not good either if you don't want this to be a cramped shooter). The ultimate problem with variables and configurations is chaos: games about stats (or whatever simulated through number bars that is not balanced for everyone) and huge amounts of items tend to make something irrilevant out of customization. In case classes were completely ditched, thus becoming only "undefined" and not really disappearing, inventory loadouts would be fundamental and to allow them to be open to the extreme customization devs mentioned it's likely some skill, item and weapons would be bound to undefined classes to gain a decent decisional gameplay while basic stuff stays universal.
It wouldn't be a problem if this game was EvE or planetside2 on some levels because of the huge numbers in battles (on the other hand depth and complexity would go beyond some point and become very shallow as your attention is focused on what you are doing rather than what enemies are up to, much like most mmorpgs).
Also i'm Schiff and i don't remember the ad hoc email i made, i managed to get the old one.
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Its Cyberpunk, there will probably be dozens of variations of the same weapon sold under different brand names and the only differences will probably be in the aesthetics. But that is beside the point.
I am not going to pretend that I know a lot about how games are developed and how the coding works. I also don't really care because the overall effect is what is important to me. It's like in Planetside 2 - I don't care about weapon stats, but I do care about how the 'perform' when I actually use them in the game. I don't need to focus my attention on numbers, I actually try out every weapon and I use the one that I feel works for me depending on the task at hand.
Ignorance is bliss.
That is a terrible choice for an example, considering that DE:HR's biggest let down was how linear it was.
I think some clarification is in order at this time:
There will be shed loads of weapons and cybernetics - that was confirmed suring the initial announcement videos.
I am not suggesting that we should be able to carry loads of rifle sized weapons, two works for me, or one and a 'heavy weapon' like a disposable launcher - (nod to commando
) but I am suggesting that we should be able to carry more smaller weapons, (which the PnP game deemed to be fairly concealable.)I am in favour of options because they force the player to make choices. The more choices there are the more variation to the game. That increases replayability but more imoportantly it gives the player the feeling that they are playing the game their own way.
I understand that you can have too many choices and that Cyberpunk 2077 should not be 'Pack-Rat 2077'.
I must point out that no hardware of any kind was ever restricted to specific roles/classes in the PnP game. The reason for that was because there there was no logical means to explain why that would be the case. It's the same in the older DnD books, (though I can't speak for the current edition - I refuse to pick it up after some of the reviews I have read.) People just don't use stuff that they have little or no use for and they probably avoid it if they are poorly skilled in its use. That's enough for me.
Now, lets look back to the first Mass Effect game. Everyone carried a Sniper Rifle, an Assault Rifle, a Shotgun and a Pistol. Did this detract from any kind of gameplay? I don't think so. You chose an area to specialise in and you focused on it. I always opted for the AR, though I did use the Sniper Rifle for long range shots when enemies were in cover or exposed and unaware. I also used the Shotgun when enemies got too close and I even used the pistol if my AR overheated and it was still a close to medium range engagement.
I just want the option to be able to carry backup weapons and alternatives to cover unknown situations. I want realism, not 'gamey' restriction.
And as I said, style over substance.
Meh. You know how I feel about Rule One. I prefer Rule Four, the trump rule, much much more.
This is a funny area - both you and Schiff make good points. I've awarded you my pointed red appreciation.
Inventory management can be a real pain - I still wake up sweating at night thinking I'm going through my New Vegas inventory again. Oh no, I missed those 20x brahmin steaks! No wonder! Aggh!
On the other hand, unrestricted loadouts are dumb. I dunno. Even loadouts themselves are pretty silly - maybe a harness mechanic?
I think he meant Deus Ex 1, although DE1 was also linear - you moved from hub to hub as the plot advanced. Nostalgia-coloured glasses and all that. Both HR and DE1 had multi approach to in-hub objectives, DE1 felt less....pre plotted stealth is all. DE1 also had inventory management, as did HR.
I wouldn't describe CoD or BF as broken jokes - that's pretty damning and doesn't leave much room for games that are broken jokes: Aliens Colonial Marines for example. BF4 was a lot of fun.
This is a funny area - both you and Schiff make good points. I've awarded you my pointed red appreciation.
Inventory management can be a real pain - I still wake up sweating at night thinking I'm going through my New Vegas inventory again. Oh no, I missed those 20x brahmin steaks! No wonder! Aggh!
On the other hand, unrestricted loadouts are dumb. I dunno. Even loadouts themselves are pretty silly - maybe a harness mechanic?
I think he meant Deus Ex 1, although DE1 was also linear - you moved from hub to hub as the plot advanced. Nostalgia-coloured glasses and all that. Both HR and DE1 had multi approach to in-hub objectives, DE1 felt less....pre plotted stealth is all. DE1 also had inventory management, as did HR.
I wouldn't describe CoD or BF as broken jokes - that's pretty damning and doesn't leave much room for games that are broken jokes: Aliens Colonial Marines for example. BF4 was a lot of fun.
That's implementing redundant weapons, which is something good design prevents in every good game.
Understand that it doesn't matter as gamers are not supposed to know how "it feels" until gameplay mode starts
While it's true it didn't have Thief's huge levels and Liberty Island sandbox stuff maps, it's a very good choice since it has a better level design (exception made for the LI bit i just mentioned). Lol, anything but terrible. The main thing is people find hard to get into objective planning, thus they were provided with obvious straightforward paths and targets for a better experience. While it's disappointing and doesn't provide the options from thief and deus ex, it can enhance the player experience. It can properly suit all playstyles as an answer to the lack of stealthy gamers in action stuff, but the whole issue can be boiled down to taking the best out of melee (as i posted a lot of times around the forum), make it a fair alternative with some drawbacks and come up with paths that do support variations. I' ve seen so many times stealth blending with hit/run and gun without being obvious or streamlined along particular choices, even if it's for the sake of it. Something you might see in Universe or whatever is the next deus ex thing, possibly in easy to deal sidequests.
I think some clarification is in order at this time:
There will be shed loads of weapons and cybernetics - that was confirmed suring the initial announcement videos.
I am not suggesting that we should be able to carry loads of rifle sized weapons, two works for me, or one and a 'heavy weapon' like a disposable launcher - (nod to commando
I am in favour of options because they force the player to make choices. The more choices there are the more variation to the game. That increases replayability but more imoportantly it gives the player the feeling that they are playing the game their own way.
I understand that you can have too many choices and that Cyberpunk 2077 should not be 'Pack-Rat 2077'.
Understand that this is when restrictions are supposed to come in, even if you are limited to "primary and secondary weapons"+ smaller weaps, otherwhise you end up with a single loadout that's played every game. Inventory restrictions can come from things skills since classes might be completely ditched, as a way to introduce undefined ones in form of loadouts and what i said before. The fact these loadouts can be fairly open to customization breaks lights/mediums/heavies stereotypes and doesn't involve blatalant dev dictating.
as i said before mentiong the universalstuff, loadout etc restrictions do not mean you being unable to use more or different weapons
what i said before about restrictions.
that's level design stuff
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Understand that when broken and compared to single stuff all games result similar and unoriginal. Both Deus Ex and Human Revolution are about multi approach and multi path stealth, DE had a much larger size while DEHR was more streamlined experience (which doesn't really hinder multi stuff). That's because DE was like a spiritual sequel to games like thief and ss2, while DEHR was a DE spiritual sequel (gameplay wise, prequel story wise). Which is why DE had terrible items and horrible gunplay filled with character and weapon skills that made for cramped action while DEHR is consolish at best (which comes with prevention of twitch shooting and lack of vertical design that called for things like the icarus landing system and a bunch of stuff). So yeah, micromanaging wise they got ups and downs, like energy or xp management. Also because they are story driven games where story is really a primary thing so that you don't spend time into parties and teamplay, there was little point in balancing stuff (take any DEHR boss fight). Reasons why EYE Divine Cybermancy had to be a bit different (bringing sandboxy stuff, decent action, parties, online modes etc) to the point the slot based inventory didn't have that much of a point as it was divided in smaller inventories that made for your usual fps set.
They got loads of gimmicky stuff.
Since the commercial successes of console shooters, which were experimental stuff at first, most fps submit to user friendliness rather than explore new stuff. CoD&clones in particular are filled with harmless single player fun that tends to suppress player skill online to the point they don't play like games anymore. It's like they are shooters designed to pretend to be rpg's in terms of getting advantages artificially granted from the game based on time played, so that useless stuff like tactical air stuff, character progression, unlocks and bullet time get to be marketed points. Also these games don't bring much action wise.
You can tell me they got gazillionz of players every year, but it's not like that makes MapleStory (which has approximately 100 Million users worldwide) an inspiration to all rpg games out there
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Well no - but it does mean MapleStory isn't a broken game, funwise. You or I may not like it, ( much like CoD), but if it makes it's users happy, it's doing its job as a game.
I agree consoles have done the FPS genre little good and have reduced risk taking. Perhaps we'd have a Mirror's Edge 2 if we were still shoving forward. Although we did get STALKER and that was well worthy of your time.
EYE was kind of good for awhile, and then not so.
I agree consoles have done the FPS genre little good and have reduced risk taking. Perhaps we'd have a Mirror's Edge 2 if we were still shoving forward. Although we did get STALKER and that was well worthy of your time.
EYE was kind of good for awhile, and then not so.
Heh, who doesn't like fun games. Don't know about MS, never played it. I think shooters could have the same depth of SC2 or some moba stuff though, was that the thing about mechs in titanfall? Either way games like Reflex, Reborn and Project Free Fall hopefully will keep up defining games in the classical sense, while CloudBuilt will serve as speedrun stuff (Overgrowth too apparently).
I really don't care if its unrealistic that I'm carrying an armory around with me. I want guns and bombs for every occasion and sometimes I just hold onto the lot so I can sell it off at the next store so really its as many as I can get unlimited would be nice though thats a tad unrealistic but thats my own preference.
How many guns can I own, Unlimted... how many guns can I walk around with... well, I suppose my BOD stat will determine how much weight I can walk around with...
As for how many guns I have quick acce4sss too, well we had an idea for a pretty intricate set of holsters and what not strapped across you body, dunno if such a thing is even possible, but the amount of equipped holsters/shoulder straps/sheathes/etc should definitely determine how many weapons a character can on them in a ready to use capacity...... the dea should not be whats common, but whats possible... perhaps a mix of REF and BOD to determine the number...
As for how many guns I have quick acce4sss too, well we had an idea for a pretty intricate set of holsters and what not strapped across you body, dunno if such a thing is even possible, but the amount of equipped holsters/shoulder straps/sheathes/etc should definitely determine how many weapons a character can on them in a ready to use capacity...... the dea should not be whats common, but whats possible... perhaps a mix of REF and BOD to determine the number...
Again, i hate to quote myself but... Whom am i kidding, i love to quote myself:
You should be able to carry as many items as you want, but within reason.. A system between Fallout 3 and State of Decay would work best for the rest, too many items or not enough space and you can barely even move anymore.. Carrying too many items at once should manifest physically, exertion should result as dropping in stats and so on...
Here is my take on how many weapons our characters should be able to carry:
How many weapons you can carry should mostly depend on how many holsters you have, the size of your bag and your strength.
Holster system should work like this:
1 - 2 and 6: Quickslots, where you can keep a small weapon such as pistol or knife, or ammunition (in which case it helps you reload faster and lets you carry more ammo), or you can keep usable items such as radio, scanner, grenade and such.
3: Concealed weapon slots for pistols or small SMG's.
4: Open weapon slots for pistols and big SMG's. (You can put a pistol on one side and a big SMG on the other. Or you could put a small ammunition bag on one side.)
5: Weapon slot for a regular sized pistol or a big sized knife. Lets call them backup weapons. Or holdout weapons. (Small weapons can be concealed but big weapons cannot be.)
Back: How much you can carry fully depends on what type of bag you have. Bigger bags would carry a lot more items than smaller bags, but smaller bags will not slow you down as much. Also, having a holster for your rifle would effectively prevent the penalties for your movement but it would also mean slower weapon draw.
You should be able to carry as many items as you want, but within reason.. A system between Fallout 3 and State of Decay would work best for the rest, too many items or not enough space and you can barely even move anymore.. Carrying too many items at once should manifest physically, exertion should result as dropping in stats and so on...
Mine was for a basic layout, with minimum hindrance of movement and weight.. (minimum of this would still be too much in real life, but for a game, it would work well enough) But with cyber, you should be able to add as many holsters you want...