Street Tech

[chriswebb2020.736]

But are you suggesting, that the player characters will be average losers?

Well, that depends on their role really. Corps have loads of cash, Nomads have next to none by comparison.

But that is not the issue with the thread at all, it's about how to represent the recycled and repurposed tech that the folks on the bottom rung of the ladder, (being about 75% of the US population in 2020,) use. This thread is not about what can be bought of the shelf or the showroom. It's about what the street techies make with what they can get hold of to do a job that they need it to do.


As for "Any car that costs less than 10k euros is kind of cheapskate car.", well, my guess is that you are German because of all Europeans it's the Germans who have the most insterest in cars. Your parents muct have a fair bit of cash, thats all I can say to that. Sure, many people go to good schools and get loans for cars, but that is not how the majority live. I sure as hell don't know many people who spend over half their annual income on brand new cars.

And America in 2020 is not a thriving country, quite the opposite. It is a destitue land, filled with corruption and desperation.

And seeing as you have apparently played, (and GM'ed,) 2020 games, you should know that.

 

[designer5]

But that is not the issue with the thread at all, it's about how to represent the recycled and repurposed tech that the folks on the bottom rung of the ladder, (being about 75% of the US population in 2020,) use. This thread is not about what can be bought of the shelf or the showroom. It's about what the street techies make with what they can get hold of to do a job that they need it to do.

But if some dude comes from a store and gets into an accident, then you get what he purchased - well, it is kind of off the shelf. Still wrapped in plastic and all. The value of the item has still plummeted by half, because it is no longer new, but hey, who cares? You have to use what you can.

As for "Any car that costs less than 10k euros is kind of cheapskate car.", well, my guess is that you are German because of all Europeans it's the Germans who have the most insterest in cars. Your parents muct have a fair bit of cash, thats all I can say to that. Sure, many people go to good schools and get loans for cars, but that is not how the majority live. I sure as hell don't know many people who spend over half their annual income on brand new cars.

Quite close. But, how fricking poor are you guys? If a person makes 2000 e / month net, you can easily afford like 250 e / month for a long car loan. And with that loan you get a car around 10k euros! Anything below that is like you try to get by or otherwise try to save some money for other purposes, which counts as cheapskateing. Am I right?

And America in 2020 is not a thriving country, quite the opposite. It is a destitue land, filled with corruption and desperation.

See you in 7 years, when you flee from the US to Europe.

 

[blank_redge]

...how fricking poor are you guys? If a person makes 2000 e / month net, you can easily afford like 250 e / month for a long car loan. And with that loan you get a car around 10k euros!

This assumes our characters will start with that kind of bankroll. Or any kind of bankroll.

Again, if you refer to ChrisWebb's chart on the previous page, you'll see that the GREAT majority of people are living in poor, if not outright miserable conditions.

So, again, the idea of someone having a shiny new car, or a shiny car put together as a custom ride from two or more vehicles, should be unlikely for the setting. A custom ride put together from two or more vehicles, held together with chewing gum, duct tape, and hope, should be far more likely.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

But if some dude comes from a store and gets into an accident, then you get what he purchased - well, it is kind of off the shelf. Still wrapped in plastic and all. The value of the item has still plummeted by half, because it is no longer new, but hey, who cares? You have to use what you can.

How often is that going to happen? Also, how often, when that does happen, will the goods get damaged?

You are grasping at straws.

Quite close. But, how fricking poor are you guys? If a person makes 2000 e / month net, you can easily afford like 250 e / month for a long car loan. And with that loan you get a car around 10k euros! Anything below that is like you try to get by or otherwise try to save some money for other purposes, which counts as cheapskateing. Am I right?

Well, let's see. The 'median' wage in the UK, (according to current data,) for someone between 25 and 30 years old is £17k/annum, (which is about 20k euros.) The wages in France and Germany are usually 20% higher than that.

Now, after tax, that equates to £14,800. The average rent in the UK is £811 per month, (£9732 per year.) which is almost 66% of someones income. That doesn't leave a lot to cover food, electric, gas, water and council tax. Of course to actually run a car, you need to pay for insurance, road tax, MoT's, services and fuel, (not to mention repairs.) In short, it is all but impossible for a single person to afford such an extravagance and even couple will struggle to afford it. They certainly arent going to waste money on a new car when second hand ones are perfectly good and a fraction of the cost.

So, FUCK buying a new car for £10,000+ when you immediately lose half that value just by buying the car. I would rather buy a second hand car that is about 8 years old for well under £1000, (or even under £700 if you know where to get one.) Especially as new drivers will be paying at least £1400 just for one years insurance.

See you in 7 years, when you flee from the US to Europe.

Yeah, that would be the EU which is harder to get into that Australia is now?

 

[username_3688833]

Yeah, that would be the EU which is harder to get into that Australia is now?

Really? I can't see them being more backwardsly xenophobic than this redneck wonderland.

Besides, I'm working on the theory that Designer5 is either under 25, absolutely huge, or both. Nothing else explains the juvenile gainsaying.

Maybe because they're so young and new, and see us old folks having our harsh little arguments, and wants to join in. My daughter gets like that when we're busy with stuff, she wants to help, and it's soooo cute in a monumentally frustrating sort of way... Then again, she's only 2...

 

[designer5]

How often is that going to happen? Also, how often, when that does happen, will the goods get damaged?

But the more accidents, the better the chances. I mean, not every character in Cyberpunk are cops.

Well, let's see. The 'median' wage in the UK, (according to current data,) for someone between 25 and 30 years old is £17k/annum, (which is about 20k euros.) The wages in France and Germany are usually 20% higher than that.

And when you make it a bit higher as the characters are a bit better than the average people, then you have 2 k e salary / month.

Now, after tax, that equates to £14,800. The average rent in the UK is £811 per month, (£9732 per year.) which is almost 66% of someones income. That doesn't leave a lot to cover food, electric, gas, water and council tax. Of course to actually run a car, you need to pay for insurance, road tax, MoT's, services and fuel, (not to mention repairs.) In short, it is all but impossible for a single person to afford such an extravagance and even couple will struggle to afford it. They certainly arent going to waste money on a new car when second hand ones are perfectly good and a fraction of the cost.

Now, you can afford 250 e / month for a car loan. And you have 1750 for everything else, which makes it work.

But, I was talking about second hand cars. Second hand cars ARE pretty much good at 10 k e range. They might be many years old, but they are really nice. I mean, we don't live in the 70's anymore.

So, FUCK buying a new car for £10,000+ when you immediately lose half that value just by buying the car. I would rather buy a second hand car that is about 8 years old for well under £1000, (or even under £700 if you know where to get one.) Especially as new drivers will be paying at least £1400 just for one years insurance.

1000 e car... Lol? My computer costs 1000 euros.

Yeah, that would be the EU which is harder to get into that Australia is now?

The harder to get to is usually a better place. Otherwise you could just walk there and no one cares.

 

[thewarsend]

Designer5@ You really don't get it.. Most people doesn't make 2000 euros a month and even if they did, they have too much expenses to afford anything other than things like rent, bills and food.. Chris really dumbed things down for you to understand yet surprisingly you are incapable on understanding..

Look, i will make you see at least one point more clearly:

Lets say an average person makes £14,800 a year after taxes, and he has to pay £9732 for rent per year, that leaves him with only £5068, (with about 420 euros a month) with that he has to pay the bills, buy food, clothing and whatnot.. Now you get it? They can't afford to pay an extra 250 every month.. Not everybody can afford a £1000 computer either.. Things are even worse in Cyberpunk, people work at minimum wages and have miserable lives.. (Much like real world really)

Also, money does not carry same value in every country, so while you can do more with less, not everybody can, even if they had exactly same amount of money..

 

[designer5]

Lets say an average person makes £14,800 a year after taxes, and he has to pay £9732 for rent per year, that leaves him with only £5068, (with about 420 euros a month) with that he has to pay the bills, buy food, clothing and whatnot.. Now you get it? They can't afford to pay an extra 250 every month.. Not everybody can afford a £1000 computer either.. Things are even worse in Cyberpunk, people work at minimum wages and have miserable lives.. (Much like real world really)

I wasn't talking about the average person.

Also, money does not carry same value in every country, so while you can do more with less, not everybody can, even if they had exactly same amount of money..

Yeah, and US does have one of the lowest tax rates.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

I wasn't talking about the average person.



Yeah, and US does have one of the lowest tax rates.

First, sorry I'm not psychic. In a thread talking about the people and the tech on the bottom rung of the ladder, you are trying to talk about how the people at the top live. My bad, obviously.

Also, laughing at the fact that a lot of people can't afford the nice toys you can, that's pretty damn childish. You need to get out and see some of the real world. I, for one, am part of a single income family, so why don't you go do the maths on how I struggle to get by trying to provide for my girlfriend and my son on less than £15,000 a year before tax.
Look up the word modesty while you are at it.

Second, sure, the US has a low tax rate but it also has a much lower average wage and a much higher proportion of people live on or below the poverty line.

In the 2020 setting there are a huge proportion of people who can't even afford a place to live, let alone fancy cars, computers or food. Hopi realise that the majority of the food eaten in the US in the 2020 setting is a bland food substitute that resembles dry dog food?
And again, sure the players will be better off than the average guy, but the thread isn't about them, it is about the average and the people on the bottom rung of the ladder. The people that will occasionally have to fight for their life over the contents of their pockets, even if they are empty.

 

[username_3688833]

First, sorry I'm not psychic. In a thread talking about the people and the tech on the bottom rung of the ladder, you are trying to talk about how the people at the top live. My bad, obviously.

Also, laughing at the fact that a lot of people can't afford the nice toys you can, that's pretty damn childish. You need to get out and see some of the real world. I, for one, am part of a single income family, so why don't you go do the maths on how I struggle to get by trying to provide for my girlfriend and my son on less than £15,000 a year before tax.
Look up the word modesty while you are at it.

Second, sure, the US has a low tax rate but it also has a much lower average wage and a much higher proportion of people live on or below the poverty line.

In the 2020 setting there are a huge proportion of people who can't even afford a place to live, let alone fancy cars, computers or food. Hopi realise that the majority of the food eaten in the US in the 2020 setting is a bland food substitute that resembles dry dog food?
And again, sure the players will be better off than the average guy, but the thread isn't about them, it is about the average and the people on the bottom rung of the ladder. The people that will occasionally have to fight for their life over the contents of their pockets, even if they are empty.

Agreed. Just because you're not poor, doesn't mean there aren't poor people. Just because you might scoff at street tech, doesn't mean there won't be any about.

Look up the word "Dystopia". That's the word for the day. Welcome to the future choomba...

 

[thewarsend]

Makeshift pistols, rifles, SMG's, shotguns and stuff (because if you can't find or afford spare parts, why not repair it with whatever you can find?)

 

[Deadbolt_Don]

Makeshift pistols, rifles, SMG's, shotguns and stuff (because if you can't find or afford spare parts, why not repair it with whatever you can find?)]

I think this might be more in the realm of what a Nomad or Rockerboy might do. Street Techs would prolly at least make more of an effort to include some kind of electronics right? They're Tech-crazy. Always scouring for new stuff anywhere they can find it. From the latest gizmos off of store shelves to the broken tech in scrap heaps. Always tinkering and building.

I think most Street Techs are more creative than this. Or at least more ambitious. Maybe this might happen if they were really limited on time and resources.

However, If I was playing a Rockerboy or Nomad and I was in a pinch, I might do a quick & simple jury-rig like this.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

I think this might be more in the realm of what a Nomad or Rockerboy might do. Street Techs would prolly at least make more of an effort to include some kind of electronics right? They're Tech-crazy. Always scouring for new stuff anywhere they can find it. From the latest gizmos off of store shelves to the broken tech in scrap heaps. Always tinkering and building.

I think most Street Techs are more creative than this. Or at least more ambitious. Maybe this might happen if they were really limited on time and resources.

However, If I was playing a Rockerboy or Nomad and I was in a pinch, I might do a quick & simple jury-rig like this.

I get where you're coming from with Nomads, but no idea why you singled out Rockerboys.

And Techies will do what they can with what they have. Would you expect a Techie to hook your leaky tap up to the mains to install a new gadget in it? Some Techies may prefer old fashioned technology, less of the electronics and more of the mechanicals.

Sometimes, to leap forward, you just take a step back.

 

[Decatonkeil]

Makeshift pistols, rifles, SMG's, shotguns and stuff (because if you can't find or afford spare parts, why not repair it with whatever you can find?)

That trashiness is just delightful. But what... purpose does that bottle serve for? Is it... the clip? XD I love the shovel handle as a buttstock tied with a belt.

 

[thewarsend]

That trashiness is just delightful. But what... purpose does that bottle serve for? Is it... the clip? XD I love the shovel handle as a buttstock tied with a belt.

I think it just holds the rifle in place so the guy can take the picture.. Or.. maybe.. MAYBE NOW IT IS A FLAME THROWER THAT RUNS ON VODKA! Wow..

What a waste of good vodka..

 

[Decatonkeil]

I think it just holds the rifle in place so the guy can take the picture.. Or.. maybe.. MAYBE NOW IT IS A FLAME THROWER THAT RUNS ON VODKA! Wow..

What a waste of good vodka..

Hey, now that I look at it, there's a shot of something in flames, prob'ly whatever was in the bottle... hey! maybe it is a flamethrower.

 

[thewarsend]

Hey, now that I look at it, there's a shot of something in flames, prob'ly whatever was in the bottle... hey! maybe it is a flamethrower.

Anything is possible i guess..

 

[Deadbolt_Don]

I get where you're coming from with Nomads, but no idea why you singled out Rockerboys.

And Techies will do what they can with what they have. Would you expect a Techie to hook your leaky tap up to the mains to install a new gadget in it? Some Techies may prefer old fashioned technology, less of the electronics and more of the mechanicals.

Sometimes, to leap forward, you just take a step back.

I'd only hire a Street Techie to fix my plumbing if all the normal plumbers died trying to stop the sewage monster crisis of 2056. Thankfully the boys in red & green saved the day.

I think I agree that some Techies might go 'hipster' though, using older technology to try and one-up the newer stuff. Possibly to make a statement I guess. I still think they'd take more pride in their work if that was the case. I sorta like to lump Street Techies with Netrunners in the fact that they express themselves and show off their intelligence through their handiwork.

It's also kinda the reason I lump Rockerboys and Nomads together I guess. Their actions are more driven by passion, emotion, or loyalty to the group. They might be knowledgeable in AV equipment or motorbike repair, but for higher technology, i'd say most of 'em really don't care as much as Street Techies.

When I think Rockerboy or Nomad, I think I see something like this in my head.

I see them as rebels, people who aren't cut out for a desk job or a quiet suburb. Living everyday on the edge and in general just trying to survive. Not that I dislike rockerboys or nomads, but I don't see most of them as knowledgeable enough to know the inter-workings of any really exotic technology (unless they've had a lot of experience with it of course).

When I think Street Techie (or Med Techie), I think I see more of this.

I see them as thinkers, tinkerers, builders, and mad-scientists. They just gotta take apart everything they get their hands on. They may not understand how everything works, but they at least know what it does and how to use it. They've got gadgets, gizmos and tools for every situation they can of.

I don't know if the average street techie could take on a Rockerboy or Nomad in a straight fight. If a street tech was cornered and in a pinch, they'd prolly pull a gadget out of their ass.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, wrapping your rifle in duct tape, paperclips and chewing gum just to keep it held together shouldn't REQUIRE a street-techie. It could be done by anyone.

Integrated robotics, sensors, enhanced firing mechanics, and so on, might require someone more skilled, like a Street-Techie.

 

[wisdom000]

I think this might be more in the realm of what a Nomad or Rockerboy might do. Street Techs would prolly at least make more of an effort to include some kind of electronics right? They're Tech-crazy. Always scouring for new stuff anywhere they can find it. From the latest gizmos off of store shelves to the broken tech in scrap heaps. Always tinkering and building.

I think most Street Techs are more creative than this. Or at least more ambitious. Maybe this might happen if they were really limited on time and resources.

However, If I was playing a Rockerboy or Nomad and I was in a pinch, I might do a quick & simple jury-rig like this.

Um... I think you are confusing Techies with Tinker Gnomes... techies fix shit, sometimes they make new shit... but they typically do not add "dood dads" just for the sake of doo-dads... Some techies are electricians, some techies specialize in automotive repair, some specialize in weaponsmith... some even specialize in carpentry.

When I think Rockerboy or Nomad, I think I see something like this in my head.

Nomads yes... Rockerboy.... no, nothing whatsoever in that image says Rcokerboy to me... maybe if the guy was holding an guitar instead of a rifle, and a mic instead of a knife...

But I believe we have spoken before about you wildly inaccurate perception of Rockerboys... or maybe that was someone else...

I see them as rebels, people who aren't cut out for a desk job or a quiet suburb. Living everyday on the edge and in general just trying to survive. Not that I dislike rockerboys or nomads, but I don't see most of them as knowledgeable enough to know the inter-workings of any really exotic technology (unless they've had a lot of experience with it of course).

Um... yeah, you are off on all of the above.... I mean they are just as much rebels as any edgerunner...

Nomads are people who live on the road (or sea), bikers, migrant workers, truck drivers, smugglers, hippies, carnies, fishermen, salvage hunters... And according to canon, nomads actually tend to be more educated than most.

Rockerboys are poets, preachers, politicians, and most represented as musicians in the 2020 verse... hence the name

Techies, as I said, fix shit...

When I think Street Techie (or Med Techie), I think I see more of this.

I see them as thinkers, tinkerers, builders, and mad-scientists. They just gotta take apart everything they get their hands on. They may not understand how everything works, but they at least know what it does and how to use it. They've got gadgets, gizmos and tools for every situation they can of.

Um, yeah, wildly innacurate misconceptions

I guess what I'm trying to say is, wrapping your rifle in duct tape, paperclips and chewing gum just to keep it held together shouldn't REQUIRE a street-techie. It could be done by anyone.

Actually, thats exactly what techies, and their special ability, Jury Rig, is for...

Think of street techies less as Mad Scientist, and more as Macguyver. Think of street medtechs less as crazy brain surgeon, and more of combat medic, or back alley abortion provider..

 

[thewarsend]