Did the ending feel quite rushed to you?

[joshmosh]

Did the ending feel quite rushed to you?

So, I finished the main story last week and something's just been off about my experience at the end. All in all, I enjoyed the story and even though it was less complex and more black and white than the previous game's. However, the ending felt very rushed and not well-thought. Here are my criticisms:

Ciri, the Tower, and the White Frost

This is my biggest gripe with the climax of the story. After killing Eredin, you dash off to find Ciri, fearing Avallac'h has betrayed you and her somehow. You find out she has summoned the tower & triggered the conjunction of spheres with the sage's help to try and end the threat of the White Frost once and for all. That's all dandy, but the writers neglected to mention why she felt the need to do it right in that moment. I know the threat of the White Frost was mentioned a few times throughout the game (as well as previous games) and Geralt even got to experience it first hand when travelling through different worlds. However, there was no indication that its threat to Geralt's world was immediate - not one hint - which would have made Ciri's actions make sense. Instead, I was left scratching my head as to why she would even attempt this now. It's been mentioned numerous times that she has yet to learn how to fully control her gift. If the danger was not imminent, would she not have the taken the time to learn more from Avallac'h before attempting it? So instead of feeling sorrow for Ciri's sacrifice, I was quite befuddled by her motivations. It would also have helped to hear a bit more about exactly what she was trying to do and how it would have worked. It's almost like the writers decided that after Eredin's death the story had to end as quickly as possible, so they just took the shortest path and had Ciri save the world from a threat that had very little build-up.

They could have solved this quite easily by something like having Eredin flee from Geralt before he lands the fatal blow, grab Ciri and attempt to bring his people to this world. Ciri, not in full control of her powers triggers the conjunction by accident and the beginning of the White Frost. Geralt catches up to them and finishes off Eredin before Ciri decides to end what she started by sacrificing herself to save him and the world. That would have made some sense.

Avallac'h

Quite a lot was made of his hidden agenda towards Ciri during the game. In the end we find out next to nothing of what it was and how it concluded. It was very disappointing to see him be relegated just as Ciri's helper at the end. What happened to his hatred of her, his own plans?

Geralt

Now I know a lot has been made over how the story felt like Ciri's rather than Geralt's, and in part I have to agree. Sure, Ciri is Geralt's destiny and was crucial to the plot, but given that this was the final chapter of his story, it would have been nice to see in more detail of how his story concluded. The three main endings are all about how Ciri ended up and all we get is a single slide of what happens to Geralt. Very underwhelming.

Emhyr

Did anyone else expect more from the character and the empire in general? He does serve an important plot purpose in giving Geralt the mission to find Ciri, as well as influencing Ciri's decision at the end, but I really expected and wanted him to be more involved in the story. For instance, if Geralt stubbornly refused to bring Ciri to him, I wanted to see a pissed off Emhyr have a showdown with him. Nilfgaard itself was also a very background presence in the game. We rarely got to interact with them and their dealings, which was quite disappointing.

Few other criticisms of the story:

- The padding the main story got does become very obnoxious at times. Quests like the Bloody Baron are superb, but ones like the fetch quest on the Isle of Mists was incredibly annoying. After building up all that steam about Geralt finally finding Ciri, why ruin the pacing and anticipation with an insignificant side-quest?

- Speaking of the reunion, they really could have written that scene better. When that little wisp of Avallac'h's came in and revived her, the emotional note they were trying for was completely negated by the thought of 'why the heck didn't it come in sooner and save us from the melodrama?'. Maybe this has to do with the fact that I detest being emotionally manipulated when the strings are quite visible.

I would love to hear what others thought about these points. Thanks.

 

[Lightice]

I agree about Ciri and the White Frost, that is something that could have been built up and explained better. However, I see no problem about Avallac'h, whose "hidden agenda" was a deliberate red herring, or Emhyr, who works best when he's more in the background. Likewise, the Isle of the Mists storyline played masterfully with fairy tale storylines in a way we've learned to love about The Witcher-franchise. I find no complaints on that front.

Apart from the points you brought up, I found Eredin to come off as a bit too generic doomsday villain, standing oddly out from amongst all the complex and nuanced characters. While it would have been hard to give his motivations much more depth, I feel that they could have played up his psychological warfare tactics, instead, to make him feel more mysterious and formidable. I really missed his characterisation from TW1, where he played the part of this all-knowing spectre of malice and despair. I don't see why he would change the act just because his true nature has been discovered. He could have brought up things that Geralt did during his time in the Wild Hunt, as well as his actions during the main quest to demoralise him, like he attempted in TW1. This is actually something I hope will be added to the Enhanced Edition, along with a more complex and challenging final bossfight.

 

[Veirian]

Could someone tell me this : When you choose the witcheress ending, Ciri goes to the White Frost dimension and then she reminisces old memories. Then Geralt finds her at the inn and gives her a sword. Did she stop the white Frost ? Or she thought she could not leave Geralt and decided to go back. If she stops the white frost, why does she die in the other ending ? Or maybe she just feels too dependent on Geralt and wants to be more independent and that's why she does not go back to him ? Maybe she stops the white frost only with her death and only in the bad ending ?

 

[Tharkey]

Adressing your first point:

Ciri didn't make the conjunction of spheres happen did she? The way I understood this scene was: that the conjunction of spheres/worlds happened and that's why she summoned that tower then and there and... went in I guess. I don't know if I was supposed to know or recognize/remember the tower as something significant that happened before but I thought it was something she summoned in order to open a portal to somewhere, where she could fight the white frost. And the reason she did so in that moment was because the conjunction happened. I don't remember if anyone said they would know when the next conjunction was going to happen but I thought I remembered them saying it was about to happen again, soon. Again, maybe I totally misunderstood it.

 

[joshmosh]

@Lightice
I agree about Eredin. It would also have been nice to see him interact more with Geralt considering he once rode with the Wild Hunt. In fact, that whole backstory could have used more attention as it would have provided an interesting dynamic between them other than just the 'gotta keep Ciri away from them!'.

@Tharkey
Ahh, that's an interesting point. The way I saw it was that the conjunction occurred due to Avallac'h summoning the tower. It wasn't very clear what preceded what. Ciri's actions would definitely make sense if she was reacting to the White Frost. I should play through that part again and see if I can get a clearer picture.

 

[Jou05]

For me apart from the Bloody Baron questline and maybe the battle at Kaer Morhen the story was quite underwhelming (especially compared to TW2)

It just wasn't very exciting and felt very padded out
It was basically just Geralt doing favours for people in exchange for info
And they dumbed down the politics too which was disappointing I realize this was supposed to be a more personal story but why shit on our TW2 decisions like that?

Also as much as I like Ciri I agree with you TW3 felt like her story, the game focused on her way too much (even the endings)
Every other character and storyline were shafted

 

[EKreuz]

Frankly, I wish they would just dump the White Frost bit in an Enhanced Edition or as part of the first expansion. It comes out of nowhere (not the Frost itself, but Ciri suddenly deciding she is "stopping it" whatever that is supposed to mean), and do something more interesting with Avallach and maybe Eredin. I don't think it would be that difficult. There is a of opportunity there given the relationship between Avallach, Eredin, Geralt (his time with the Hunt is sadly and inexplicably never explored, lot of opportunity there), and Ciri. You wouldn't even have to change the epilogues, which are all pretty great.

The more I think about the final act, the more it bothers me. Here's hoping CDPR gives us something in the first expansion.

 

[Valkimedes]

There's two things that are weird for me.
1. The conjunction of spheres can be summoned? As i can understand it, is a Cosmic or planetary phenomenom or something like that. But if you can summoned it, it must be a magic thing. Maybe created for elves thousands of years go.
2. What really is the White Frost? it seems to me a powerful magic that went wrong, made it for elves.

 

[joshmosh]

@Jou05
Yeah, it seems to be the main complaint, story-wise, for those who loved the second game. I don't mind that the writers chose a different path, but the fact that it was at the expense of a lot of the established characters (even the main character himself), themes, and plot lines was a shame. And as you said, if you strip the main quest down and throw away all the 'favour' quests, you are left with a surprisingly little.

@EKreuz
I really wanted the writers to explore more about Geralt's (and Yen's) time with the Wild Hunt, but it seems like it was just an afterthought to them, a plot device for him losing his memories. Using an expansion to have Ciri tackling the White Frost would definitely have made it better, and certainly more fleshed out then just tacking it on at the very end of the main story. I very much doubt they'll revisit any of this though in future expansions. They will most likely be self-contained stories with little bearing on the main story or characters.

@Valkimedes
That's the thing. It's not very clear in the game how the conjunction of the spheres came about. I had originally thought it was Ciri and Avallac'h who had triggered it when they summoned the tower, as a side-effect perhaps, but it could be that it was the other way round and the conjunction forced them to summon the tower. Then agin, it would really be a heck of a coincidence for the cataclysmic event to randomly occur immediately after you defeat Eredin. That would feel really forced with next to no build-up. Not sure exactly what the nature of the event is, could be powerful magic or just some cosmic event.

As for the White Frost, I have always thought it was just a force of nature, a sudden onset of an ice-age. Never got the feeling it was anything magical. My interpretation was that the White Frost you saw around the Tower at the end was a by-product of summoning the tower. Perhaps one of the worlds involved in the conjunction was already gripped by it and it started bleeding over into Geralt's world.
Nothing is really well-explained during that sequence. In general, I don't mind writers leaving things out and letting the player fill the gaps in, but it's a very bad idea to do so during the climax of a story. That's not the time to introduce plot gaps and unanswered questions. It should be bringing all the elements of the story together and resolving it satisfactorily. Obviously it wasn't as bad as Mass Effect 3, but Bioware made the same mistake with that game.

 

[Komalt]

I thought the ending was overall long. But I do agree in the end there are even more questions that are left unanswered. I really loved traveling through different worlds with the elves, it would be great if thats expanded on in an expansion.

 

[saricc]

So, I finished the main story last week and something's just been off about my experience at the end. All in all, I enjoyed the story and even though it was less complex and more black and white than the previous game's. However, the ending felt very rushed and not well-thought. Here are my criticisms:

Ciri, the Tower, and the White Frost

This is my biggest gripe with the climax of the story. After killing Eredin, you dash off to find Ciri, fearing Avallac'h has betrayed you and her somehow. You find out she has summoned the tower & triggered the conjunction of spheres with the sage's help to try and end the threat of the White Frost once and for all. That's all dandy, but the writers neglected to mention why she felt the need to do it right in that moment. I know the threat of the White Frost was mentioned a few times throughout the game (as well as previous games) and Geralt even got to experience it first hand when travelling through different worlds. However, there was no indication that its threat to Geralt's world was immediate - not one hint - which would have made Ciri's actions make sense. Instead, I was left scratching my head as to why she would even attempt this now. It's been mentioned numerous times that she has yet to learn how to fully control her gift. If the danger was not imminent, would she not have the taken the time to learn more from Avallac'h before attempting it? So instead of feeling sorrow for Ciri's sacrifice, I was quite befuddled by her motivations. It would also have helped to hear a bit more about exactly what she was trying to do and how it would have worked. It's almost like the writers decided that after Eredin's death the story had to end as quickly as possible, so they just took the shortest path and had Ciri save the world from a threat that had very little build-up.

They could have solved this quite easily by something like having Eredin flee from Geralt before he lands the fatal blow, grab Ciri and attempt to bring his people to this world. Ciri, not in full control of her powers triggers the conjunction by accident and the beginning of the White Frost. Geralt catches up to them and finishes off Eredin before Ciri decides to end what she started by sacrificing herself to save him and the world. That would have made some sense.

Avallac'h

Quite a lot was made of his hidden agenda towards Ciri during the game. In the end we find out next to nothing of what it was and how it concluded. It was very disappointing to see him be relegated just as Ciri's helper at the end. What happened to his hatred of her, his own plans?

Geralt

Now I know a lot has been made over how the story felt like Ciri's rather than Geralt's, and in part I have to agree. Sure, Ciri is Geralt's destiny and was crucial to the plot, but given that this was the final chapter of his story, it would have been nice to see in more detail of how his story concluded. The three main endings are all about how Ciri ended up and all we get is a single slide of what happens to Geralt. Very underwhelming.

Emhyr

Did anyone else expect more from the character and the empire in general? He does serve an important plot purpose in giving Geralt the mission to find Ciri, as well as influencing Ciri's decision at the end, but I really expected and wanted him to be more involved in the story. For instance, if Geralt stubbornly refused to bring Ciri to him, I wanted to see a pissed off Emhyr have a showdown with him. Nilfgaard itself was also a very background presence in the game. We rarely got to interact with them and their dealings, which was quite disappointing.

Few other criticisms of the story:

- The padding the main story got does become very obnoxious at times. Quests like the Bloody Baron are superb, but ones like the fetch quest on the Isle of Mists was incredibly annoying. After building up all that steam about Geralt finally finding Ciri, why ruin the pacing and anticipation with an insignificant side-quest?

- Speaking of the reunion, they really could have written that scene better. When that little wisp of Avallac'h's came in and revived her, the emotional note they were trying for was completely negated by the thought of 'why the heck didn't it come in sooner and save us from the melodrama?'. Maybe this has to do with the fact that I detest being emotionally manipulated when the strings are quite visible.

I would love to hear what others thought about these points. Thanks.

Yeah, the Isle of Mists could have worked well without those dwarfs. However, the wisp appearing was done perfectly imo.

1. I think everyone knew that Ciri was alive during that scene.

2. The point of the scene was not to trick us emotionally. The point of it was to trick Geralt emotionally. It was put in to show another side of his character, the loving father. It was put in to show true grief and sorrow from a character that is practically incapable of doing so. It truly does drive home the fact that he loves this girl more than anything. That's why it's a tearjerker (atleast for me lol).

2. It makes perfect sense. The wisp only went to Ciri's body once someone that she was familiar with tried to wake her up. I'm assuming Avallach's spell could only be lifted if and when someone she trusted arrived to wake her up.

---------- Updated at 02:58 AM ----------

For me apart from the Bloody Baron questline and maybe the battle at Kaer Morhen the story was quite underwhelming (especially compared to TW2)

It just wasn't very exciting and felt very padded out
It was basically just Geralt doing favours for people in exchange for info
And they dumbed down the politics too which was disappointing I realize this was supposed to be a more personal story but why shit on our TW2 decisions like that?

Also as much as I like Ciri I agree with you TW3 felt like her story, the game focused on her way too much (even the endings)
Every other character and storyline were shafted

You have to realize that the Geralt's story is truly Ciri's story in the end. Ciri is the important one. Geralt isn't. This is similar to the books, where many a fan believe that Ciri is truly the main character. Ciri even tells Geralt that he has to let her finish HER story.

 

[CTPhipps]

Rushed? Really?

I really think they could have ended the game at Caer Morhen and it been completely satisfying.

 

[saricc]

There's two things that are weird for me.
1. The conjunction of spheres can be summoned? As i can understand it, is a Cosmic or planetary phenomenom or something like that. But if you can summoned it, it must be a magic thing. Maybe created for elves thousands of years go.
2. What really is the White Frost? it seems to me a powerful magic that went wrong, made it for elves.

It's explained in the books and in this game that Ciri can open the gateway between worlds. That's what makes her so special, that's why everyone wants to get their hands on her. That's why she is the lady of space and time.

 

[norealer]

You find out she has summoned the tower & triggered the conjunction of spheres with the sage's help to try and end the threat of the White Frost once and for all. That's all dandy, but the writers neglected to mention why she felt the need to do it right in that moment.

I'm not sure what you mean by "summoned the tower", the tower was always there, you can see it in the background during the cutscene before Avallac'h used the Sunstone. It seemed to me that the conjuction was deliberately triggered by Ciri and Avallac'h so Ciri could enter wherever she needed to go in order to defeat the White Frost. Ciri said Avallac'h helped her "open the tower", dunno why they chose this particular place. But I agree with you about the timing of this sacrifice, maybe Avallac'h had sucessfully brainwashed Ciri to make her think "now" was the best time. What Ciri said to Geralt in the tower sounded like something out of Avallac'h's mouth, he knew Ciri was an idealist (he even said so to Geralt before the battle).

 

[inanimate_object]

So, I finished the main story last week and something's just been off about my experience at the end. All in all, I enjoyed the story and even though it was less complex and more black and white than the previous game's. However, the ending felt very rushed and not well-thought. Here are my criticisms:

Ciri, the Tower, and the White Frost

This is my biggest gripe with the climax of the story. After killing Eredin, you dash off to find Ciri, fearing Avallac'h has betrayed you and her somehow. You find out she has summoned the tower & triggered the conjunction of spheres with the sage's help to try and end the threat of the White Frost once and for all. That's all dandy, but the writers neglected to mention why she felt the need to do it right in that moment. I know the threat of the White Frost was mentioned a few times throughout the game (as well as previous games) and Geralt even got to experience it first hand when travelling through different worlds. However, there was no indication that its threat to Geralt's world was immediate - not one hint - which would have made Ciri's actions make sense. Instead, I was left scratching my head as to why she would even attempt this now. It's been mentioned numerous times that she has yet to learn how to fully control her gift. If the danger was not imminent, would she not have the taken the time to learn more from Avallac'h before attempting it? So instead of feeling sorrow for Ciri's sacrifice, I was quite befuddled by her motivations. It would also have helped to hear a bit more about exactly what she was trying to do and how it would have worked. It's almost like the writers decided that after Eredin's death the story had to end as quickly as possible, so they just took the shortest path and had Ciri save the world from a threat that had very little build-up.

They could have solved this quite easily by something like having Eredin flee from Geralt before he lands the fatal blow, grab Ciri and attempt to bring his people to this world. Ciri, not in full control of her powers triggers the conjunction by accident and the beginning of the White Frost. Geralt catches up to them and finishes off Eredin before Ciri decides to end what she started by sacrificing herself to save him and the world. That would have made some sense.

Avallac'h

Quite a lot was made of his hidden agenda towards Ciri during the game. In the end we find out next to nothing of what it was and how it concluded. It was very disappointing to see him be relegated just as Ciri's helper at the end. What happened to his hatred of her, his own plans?

Geralt

Now I know a lot has been made over how the story felt like Ciri's rather than Geralt's, and in part I have to agree. Sure, Ciri is Geralt's destiny and was crucial to the plot, but given that this was the final chapter of his story, it would have been nice to see in more detail of how his story concluded. The three main endings are all about how Ciri ended up and all we get is a single slide of what happens to Geralt. Very underwhelming.

Emhyr

Did anyone else expect more from the character and the empire in general? He does serve an important plot purpose in giving Geralt the mission to find Ciri, as well as influencing Ciri's decision at the end, but I really expected and wanted him to be more involved in the story. For instance, if Geralt stubbornly refused to bring Ciri to him, I wanted to see a pissed off Emhyr have a showdown with him. Nilfgaard itself was also a very background presence in the game. We rarely got to interact with them and their dealings, which was quite disappointing.

Few other criticisms of the story:

- The padding the main story got does become very obnoxious at times. Quests like the Bloody Baron are superb, but ones like the fetch quest on the Isle of Mists was incredibly annoying. After building up all that steam about Geralt finally finding Ciri, why ruin the pacing and anticipation with an insignificant side-quest?

- Speaking of the reunion, they really could have written that scene better. When that little wisp of Avallac'h's came in and revived her, the emotional note they were trying for was completely negated by the thought of 'why the heck didn't it come in sooner and save us from the melodrama?'. Maybe this has to do with the fact that I detest being emotionally manipulated when the strings are quite visible.

I would love to hear what others thought about these points. Thanks.

Honestly, I agree with all of this 100%. You have summarized all the main points that I would have touched on when critiquing this story. It's simply not good writing. However, I will argue that the reunion is one of the most nuanced scenes in video games I've seen in a long time and by far the best part of the game. There are many apologists on the thread whose are pathologically incapable of admitting faults of the game beyond not being able to plough everything with two legs, but you've illustrated nicely some of the glaring problems in this story.

I have spoken about this at length, so I will only say a few words. It is clear as day to me that the story was rushed and many, many things were planned, but cut out of the final release. Avallac's character in particular is so bewilderingly alluded to but completely left underdeveloped, you wonder what the writers were planning on doing with him had they more time. (The entire quest revolving around breaking into his laboratory shows that he was clearly designed to be a character with more depth than he was given). The ridiculous "Winter is the enemy" ending, to me has entirely to do with the fact that the writers failed to develop the Wild Hunt as a significant villain and so there was no emotional payoff after defeating them. So what could they do to finish the series when their main villain was so forgettable, that they don't have a single defining trait? Clearly they turned to the Deus Ex Machina approach and that is very disappointing. The Emperor was SUCH a waste of opportunity, and he was almost completely an unnecessary character and they did nothing of interest with him. I really can't understand people who defend the ending of Witcher 3 as being a great and natural ending to the saga of the Witcher series. Are they drunk on the CDPR-koolaid or have they never read a decent book in their life?

 

[CTPhipps]

Quite a lot was made of his hidden agenda towards Ciri during the game. In the end we find out next to nothing of what it was and how it concluded. It was very disappointing to see him be relegated just as Ciri's helper at the end. What happened to his hatred of her, his own plans?

I think Aval decides that Ciri defeating the White Frost is more important. I also like to think that he came to realize she wasn't an inferior being.

---------- Updated at 05:11 AM ----------

I really can't understand people who defend the ending of Witcher 3 as being a great and natural ending to the saga of the Witcher series. Are they drunk on the CDPR-koolaid or have they never read a decent book in their life?

We disagree on a lot, though I do think this should have been two games. They should have ended the Witcher Wild Hunt at the Battle of Kaer Morhen.

 

[joshmosh]

I'm not sure what you mean by "summoned the tower", the tower was always there, you can see it in the background during the cutscene before Avallac'h used the Sunstone. It seemed to me that the conjuction was deliberately triggered by Ciri and Avallac'h so Ciri could enter wherever she needed to go in order to defeat the White Frost. Ciri said Avallac'h helped her "open the tower", dunno why they chose this particular place. But I agree with you about the timing of this sacrifice, maybe Avallac'h had sucessfully brainwashed Ciri to make her think "now" was the best time. What Ciri said to Geralt in the tower sounded like something out of Avallac'h's mouth, he knew Ciri was an idealist (he even said so to Geralt before the battle).

Was that the case? I admit I don't remember seeing the tower before Geralt defeated Eredin, and it was only alluded to when Ciri was talking about one of her dreams. I should really play the whole thing again and see if I've missed any details, but I'm holding out till 1.05 comes out.
It's an interesting theory that it was Avallac'h's idea to have Ciri confront the White Frost there and then, but you also have to remember how frequently he chastised Ciri for not being able to control her gift. It would be very uncharacteristic of him to brainwash her into attempting something like that when he knew she wasn't ready.

@inanimate_object
Fair enough about the reunion scene. It's probably my general dislike of overly dramatic scenes that made it not work for me. Glad you hear you have similar issues with the story though. It wasn't terrible, per se, but it certainly didn't live up to what we expected from CDPR. I know the game was delayed twice for technical reasons, but perhaps it would have been prudent for them to go over the plot and made sure every element of the story was developed fully.

@Willowhugger
Ending the Wild Hunt threat at Kaer Morhen would have been a interesting choice. It would certainly have made sure that the White Frost plot line wasn't woefully underdeveloped. Then again, I would just as been happy if they had completely ignored Ithlinne's Prophecy in the main story (perhaps save it for an expansion) and fleshed out the Wild Hunt more.

 

[Sapath]

Was that the case? I admit I don't remember seeing the tower before Geralt defeated Eredin, and it was only alluded to when Ciri was talking about one of her dreams.

The tower is always there. Hell, it's the first thing you see when you do the Ice Giant quest and sail to Undvik. You can even visit the tower and see it for yourself. Although there is no loot or anything.

 

[DuranA]

Rushed? Really?

I really think they could have ended the game at Caer Morhen and it been completely satisfying.

You're absolutely right here. The problem is that everything after Kaer Morhen was quite rushed and needlessly there besides the interactions between Ciri and Geralt.

 

[ekrolo]

Rushed? Really?

I really think they could have ended the game at Caer Morhen and it been completely satisfying.

I agree with this, it seems really really odd to have the big battle where you gather as many allies as possible to combat the Hunt at what is essentially the home of Witcher's is only the conclusion to Act 2 instead of the conclusion of the game. Not to mention the Kaer Morhen fight was actually quite a bit more exciting than the naval one that served the actual final battle.