32/64-bit and TW3

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32/64-bit and TW3

I'm new to the differences between 32-bit and 64-bit (windows). Could somebody explain is 64-bit "must" for a demanding game like TW3 if one wanted to play it maxed? Or could the experience be almost as good with 32-bit?

Is it true that if I got 16gb of RAM, 32-bit only uses up to 4gb?
 
Yes. 32 bit operating systems can (normally) address only 4 GB of RAM. There are various workarounds, but they are quite pointless if you have an ability to run a proper 64 bit operating system.

Why 32 bit integer can address only 4 GB of RAM. Each bit can have only 2 values: (0 and 1). 32 bits therefore can have 2 ^ 32 values. Each value addresses one byte of physical memory. So you can address 2 ^ 32 bytes with a 32 bit integer. 2 ^ 32 bytes = 4 * 2 ^ 30 bytes = 4 * 2 ^ 10 * 2 ^ 10 * 2 ^ 10 bytes = 4 * 1024 * 1024 * 1024 bytes = 4 GB.
 
The computer's RAM is referenced by physical addresses, in a way similar to giving directions to a house within a condo or a residential complex, or a building in a city center. This means you need some kind of container to hold those addresses, which you might think of as simple numbers.

Computers normally represent data in a binary numerical system consisting of zero's and one's, as this is an easy step up from the mode of operation of the computer's internal electronic components. What we call a "bit" is simply a binary digit, that is, 0 or 1. Data is organized normally in groups of 8 bits, also called bytes. You can use a number of bytes to represent numbers, letters, or any other symbol. Memory addresses have to be represented in bytes, and therefore we are limited to representing as many different memory locations as your bit density allows.

Since each bit can only have two possible values (1 and 0), you can easily calculate the number of different values generated by a sequence of n binary digits with 2^n (two raised to the power of n). For example, 2 bits means 2² = 4, therefore you can generate four possible values. Using 32 or 64 bits lets you represent data differently. For instance, a 64-bit container may represent numbers much, much larger and with higher precision than a 32-bit container, because 2^64 is much much bigger than 2^32.

In practice, what this means is that using a 64-bit application in a 64-bit operating system you can theoretically access much more RAM than you would using 32-bit applications and/or OS's. This may be a requirement for the large open world of TW3.

A practical limitation of 32 bits is that the largest number you can represent is precisely the equivalent of 4 GB. In other words, a pure 32 bit system could not possibly hold address numbers beyond that 4 GB limit. This is not necessarily true, however. For years CPU's have implemented a feature called Physical Address Extension [1] that enables 32-bit CPU's to utilize much more RAM than the 4 GB limit. This was useful in the early days of big RAM when people like me still had 32-bit OS's (like Debian Linux) and more than 4 GB of RAM. However, guess what? Surprise! This feature is blocked in Windows [2].

Hope this was useful.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension
[2] http://www.geoffchappell.com/notes/windows/license/memory.htm
 
Colibrie said:
I'm new to the differences between 32-bit and 64-bit (windows). Could somebody explain is 64-bit "must" for a demanding game like TW3 if one wanted to play it maxed? Or could the experience be almost as good with 32-bit?

Is it true that if I got 16gb of RAM, 32-bit only uses up to 4gb?

64-bit programs require 64-bit processor and system library support. It will not play at all on a 32-bit setup. If they write the installer well, it will detect it and refuse to install.

Because the TW3 program will be 64-bit, you will have to have a 64-bit edition of Windows and a 64-bit processor to run it. Theoretically, those Pentium 4 and Pentium D models that support 64-bit could run it. But practically, I think you'll need at least a Core 2 Quad.

You will also have to have at least Windows Vista, because Windows XP does not support the graphics features, particularly DirectX 11, that the game will require.
 
GuyN said:
64-bit programs require 64-bit processor and system library support. It will not play at all on a 32-bit setup. If they write the installer well, it will detect it and refuse to install.

Because the TW3 program will be 64-bit, you will have to have a 64-bit edition of Windows and a 64-bit processor to run it. Theoretically, those Pentium 4 and Pentium D models that support 64-bit could run it. But practically, I think you'll need at least a Core 2 Quad.

You will also have to have at least Windows Vista, because Windows XP does not support the graphics features, particularly DirectX 11, that the game will require.
Wait, wait.. I need to upgrade the processor too?
Thank you for the information.

Do you know how many parts I need to upgrade just to be theoretically able to run TW3 (not talking about anything spesific):
Processor: AMD Phenom II x4 965 (this can't handle 64-bit..?)
Mother board: ASRock 890 GX Extreme3 (does 32 -> 64 bit affect motherboard?)
GPU: ATI Radeon HD 4850 (okay, this will be upgraded anyway)
Win Vista 32-bit (and apparently this too...)
powered by Corsair 500W (And the whole 64-bit thing better not affect this one)

Sigh...This is going to be costly...
 
Colibrie said:
Wait, wait.. I need to upgrade the processor too?
Thank you for the information.

Do you know how many parts I need to upgrade just to be theoretically able to run TW3 (not talking about anything spesific):
Processor: AMD Phenom II x4 965 (this can't handle 64-bit..?)
Mother board: ASRock 890 GX Extreme3 (does 32 -> 64 bit affect motherboard?)
GPU: ATI Radeon HD 4850 (okay, this will be upgraded anyway)
Win Vista 32-bit (and apparently this too...)
powered by Corsair 500W (And the whole 64-bit thing better not affect this one)

Sigh...This is going to be costly...

From that list you just need to install a 64-bit Operating System (such as Windows if you like) in order to run 64-bit applications.

We don't know the system requirements for TW3 yet so we cannot recommend any specific upgrades. If I were you I'd wait.
 
Colibrie said:
Wait, wait.. I need to upgrade the processor too?
Thank you for the information.

Do you know how many parts I need to upgrade just to be theoretically able to run TW3 (not talking about anything spesific):
Processor: AMD Phenom II x4 965 (this can't handle 64-bit..?)
Mother board: ASRock 890 GX Extreme3 (does 32 -> 64 bit affect motherboard?)
GPU: ATI Radeon HD 4850 (okay, this will be upgraded anyway)
Win Vista 32-bit (and apparently this too...)
powered by Corsair 500W (And the whole 64-bit thing better not affect this one)

Sigh...This is going to be costly...

Just the GPU and operating system. AMD CPUs have been 64-bit for many years; they beat Intel to market, and Intel had to copy them. Phenom II x4's are still strong CPUs.

The 4850 is not DirectX 11 capable. But let's wait until system requirements are announced before deciding how much GPU iron you'll need. The one thing I can promise you is that if you buy now, you'll pay too much.

The power supply is good for anything less than the top of the line GPUs, or SLI or Crossfire configurations. The only setups with power supply compatibility issues are those with Intel's Haswell CPU (LGA 1150).
 
Gilrond said:
Yes. 32 bit operating systems can (normally) address only 4 GB of RAM. There are various workarounds, but they are quite pointless if you have an ability to run a proper 64 bit operating system.

Why 32 bit integer can address only 4 GB of RAM. Each bit can have only 2 values: (0 and 1). 32 bits therefore can have 2 ^ 32 values. Each value addresses one byte of physical memory. So you can address 2 ^ 32 bytes with a 32 bit integer. 2 ^ 32 bytes = 4 * 2 ^ 30 bytes = 4 * 2 ^ 10 * 2 ^ 10 * 2 ^ 10 bytes = 4 * 1024 * 1024 * 1024 bytes = 4 GB.

Actually, if you have a 32-bit Windows OS, you can only get a paltry 2GB application memory. The other 2GB are reserved for kernel use. (You can change the kernel-to-application ratio by altering a global setting, but you have to know what you're doing.)
 
Thanks for the replies guys! I'm glad that I can keep my processor. Whew. I'll wait for the requirements before ugrading anything. Good to know this 64-bit thing now, though :)
 
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