Add Copy Protection

[wharekura.749]

Add Copy Protection

I want The Witcher to be copy protected.Publishers need to think outside the [] and possibly look at deploying games using USB dongles that have it installed on chips - or something. I don't know - but if I was losing lots of $ through piracy and people are moaning about DRM - then it is time to think of other ways. But it seems they do not want too (think that is). They are deploying to consoles.My opinion is FREELOADERS pirate software because they can and think the world owes them a favour and the big corporates are mean nasty greedy people.TOO BAD - if you want the product, pay for the product else go back to hippy land. The market will decide if the price is right - look at the PS3 and XBox "war".Pirating the game to see what its like is a lame excuse as there are demos. As soon as I played the Witcher demo - I went and bought my copy. I played a demo of some other rubbish and guess what, I didnt buy it.Playing games like the Witcher or Medieval II makes me see the work and art that has gone into these products and say to myself "these people deserve my money" although understandably is probably only a small percentage - but at least it is something and not nothing like these FREELOADERS pay.Come on FREELOADERS, I want to hear your socialist opinions.SAVE PC GAMING!Where am I coming from regarding anti-FREELOADERS?- I'm a software developer and can appreciate the efforts of The Witcher team- I have been playing games since the Sega 2000- I spent almost $500 NZD on a 8800GT XFX so I can really enjoy my games - this doesnt include other bits to support it- Game prices are expensive enough in NZ without FREELOADER tax being added- I love PC gaming because of the additional controls and mouse use vs console gameArticles on the effects of FREELOADERS to the PC gaming world:http://www.tomsgames.com/us/2008/08/13/ubisoft_yvesguillemot/page2.html"TG: So does that mean Ubisoft will publish fewer PC games now and pull back from the platform?GUILLEMOT: Yes, we shifted focus. We greatly reduced the number of people working on PC games because of that. But what we are also doing is trying to find a way to protect the PC game when it's played, perhaps a link to a server that will check the game."(Thanks FREELOADERS for reducing the amount of possible games going to the PC)http://www.tomsgames.com/us/2008/02/28/interview_infinity_ward/Tom's Games: Do you see game piracy as the biggest threat to PC gaming?Robert Bowling: Yeah by far. It's a big issue for any product when you lose a majority of your player base to stolen copies whether it be games or from a retail standpoint. If there're more cracked copies than legitimate ones that's a huge problem.(Thanks FREELOADERS for kicking the bottom of the developers that made one of the best games ever, for all their hard work)http://www.tomsgames.com/us/2008/03/11/bioware_interview/page2.htmlTG: Do you worry about piracy for the PC platform? Is it a big concern for BioWare?Ray Muzyka: It's bigger now than it's ever been. So you have to consider not just ways to prevent piracy, because people can always work around that, but also ways to pull consumers in and make them want to buy the products with some type of value add to them.(Thanks FREELOADERS for possibly destroying one of my hobbies that I have worked hard to pay for - all because you think everyone owes you something instead of getting of your bottom and work for what you want)

 

[xuereb]

What kind of copy protection software? I don't know of ANY game which can't be downloaded illegally, regardless of its copy protection. Being DRM, SecuRom etc. They just make it harder for people who actually paid for the game, due to activations etc. But people who download the games illegally, well, they just download it again, there's always a crack or image file to overwrite the copy protection.There is NOT one game that can't be downloaded, as in, their copy protection means jack.

 

[TheSilver]

While I somewhat agree with you, wharekura, I get this feeling that you are taking it a bit too personaly.Sure, as a software developer, it makes sense that you feel that way.However, pirating (actually in any form) will not be stopable, I think.Someone will always find a way to change or crack a programs security measures.In my opinion this is not the best, but also part of the computers success and its evolution.I don't recall the name of the specific pc, but back in the days a hell lot of people simply copied the games and gave them to their friends.Which made the beginning computer (and then later the more modern ones) popular. So in a sense, one could say the reason why you, me and everybody else enjoys and can enjoy this hobby is because of pirates and them pirating.Personaly I don't agree with your opinion about what you call "Freeloaders" (sorry, never heard the word in this context).There are those that are the way you say, but that is not all. Some simply don't have the money to buy a game, others do it for the "adrenaline", some ou of ignorance.I remember my beginning Playstation 1 games. Most were original, but there were some copys among them. At that time I simply was ignorant, young and inexperiecend.While not copying myself, I try not to look down upon those who do. They have a reason for what they are doing, whatever it is.However, I would prefer if game had some good copy protection without using controversial program (See the whole Starforce thing).I, as a user, want to know what a copy protection does on my computer. Adding to that, the sort of copy protection is also a reason (at least for me) not to buy a game.

 

[wharekura.749]

While I somewhat agree with you, wharekura, I get this feeling that you are taking it a bit too personaly.

You are correct. I have worked hard to the point where I can afford a decent machine and as soon as I do, the publishers are reducing PC content. It is personal.

Someone will always find a way to change or crack a programs security measures.

Agree

Personaly I don't agree with your opinion about what you call "Freeloaders" (sorry, never heard the word in this context).

My poor generalization.

I, as a user, want to know what a copy protection does on my computer. Adding to that, the sort of copy protection is also a reason (at least for me) not to buy a game.

Agree - hence my request for publishers to look outside the square. i.e. a non intrusive USB dongle that contains the game on a chip?Im afraid you're too intelligent to be a FREELOADER - so come on freeloaders, where are your justifications for your pirating actions - DESTROYING the hope of future games like The Witcher from ever being released

 

[wharekura.749]

There is NOT one game that can't be downloaded, as in, their copy protection means jack.

Agree - my point is for the publishers to think of another tactic.Currently in the UK they are introducing laws to curb it. Similar laws to be introduced in Australia and soon to my home country New Zealand.Its because of FREELOADERS that these big brother laws are introduced - so thanks very much!

 

[xuereb]

Personally I just don't mind anyone who does it. Of course because of your job you have a different opinion. But if my mate downloads a pirated game, well his decision. I have about 15 original games, and they're games which I knew before I bought them that they're worth the purchase.

 

[TheSilver]

While I somewhat agree with you, wharekura, I get this feeling that you are taking it a bit too personaly.

You are correct. I have worked hard to the point where I can afford a decent machine and as soon as I do, the publishers are reducing PC content. It is personal.

Understandable, but is it all the pirates fault? Console games and consoles have become very popular. Mainly do to the fact that you can buy a XBox game, put it into your XBox and play it. No instalation, no worrying if it will run. They essentially get the fun part fast. Whereas we poor Computer users have to put up with differences in OSs, CPUs, Videocards, amount of RAM, other conflicting programs installed and other problems.Honestly I can't hold a grudge towards those people. And the more those become, the less are the computer folks.

Personaly I don't agree with your opinion about what you call "Freeloaders" (sorry, never heard the word in this context).

My poor generalization.

It happens. It just seemed a litle fixated, so I thought it could use a bit of varieation ;D

I, as a user, want to know what a copy protection does on my computer. Adding to that, the sort of copy protection is also a reason (at least for me) not to buy a game.

Agree - hence my request for publishers to look outside the square. i.e. a non intrusive USB dongle that contains the game on a chip?

Which would be great, thinking outside of the box is usually good. But taking your example, I have a lot of games lying around (40+), I wouldn't want to have to keep track of a USB thingie for each of them.Now one might combine them in a device that can take care of the authorization with each new game, but those probaly too could get cracked.

Im afraid you're too intelligent to be a FREELOADER

Hmm, is that a insult or a compliment?

 

[lovely_psycho]

I'll try and keep my post concise this time

Publishers need to think outside the [] and possibly look at deploying games using USB dongles that have it installed on chips - or something. I don't know - but if I was losing lots of $ through piracy and people are moaning about DRM - then it is time to think of other ways. But it seems they do not want too (think that is). They are deploying to consoles.

I agree that publishers need to think outside the box. I don't agree that piracy is the reason games are developed for consoles, either primarily or exclusively. It may be a contributing factor but I don't think the issue is so black-and-white. Platform control, for example, is a large factor, I'm sure.

My opinion is FREELOADERS pirate software because they can and think the world owes them a favour and the big corporates are mean nasty greedy people.

You would be wrong, and you would be right It's interesting to note that recently, independent game developer Cliff Harris issued a call on his site/blog for pirates to tell him what they think of the industry, and specifically, why they pirate games. His summary of events can be found here: http://www.positech.co.uk/talkingtopirates.html and is quite an interesting read.The reason I bring this up in response to your quote is because of this quote:

I got a few people, maybe 5% of the total, who basically said "I do it because I like free stuff and won't get caught. I'd do the same with anything if I knew I'd get away with it." This is depressing, but thankfully a small minority.

The freeloaders apparently, according to one article, make up a small minority. That's a good thing, maybe the s/perceived/actual shortcomings of the industry can be addressed and a greater number of people will purchase games, thereby supporting the industry.The other points in his article are coincidentally in accordance with the ones I brought up in my rambles over in this thread: http://www.thewitcher.com/forum/index.php?topic=14239.msg366375#msg366375Namely, consumers feel like they're getting screwed over by companies. I understand when people say it doesn't excuse what pirates do no matter what justification they come up with. And that can be a fair point. After all, as the saying goes, the wrong thing done for the right reason is still the wrong thing. But that aside, people are coming up with justifications for piracy. Whether you agree or not, the fact that they feel they can justify it means there are some things that at least need to be discussed, if not addressed.

- Game prices are expensive enough in NZ without FREELOADER tax being added

I sympathise with you, we have markup issues as well

Currently in the UK they are introducing laws to curb it. Similar laws to be introduced in Australia and soon to my home country New Zealand.Its because of FREELOADERS that these big brother laws are introduced - so thanks very much!

Curb what, and what big brother laws? Sorry if I've misunderstood your post, but I can't see any reference to specifics? As for the rest of my points, they are outlined more completely in the other thread: http://www.thewitcher.com/forum/index.php?topic=14239.msg366375#msg366375Feel free to use that post as reference and discuss anything I brought up there in this thread (I didn't cross post it because it's a wall of text and I'm trying to behave ).edit: tags

 

[wharekura.749]

Whereas we poor Computer users have to put up with differences in OSs, CPUs, Videocards, amount of RAM, other conflicting programs installed and other problems.

That is part of the fun - just like petrol heads that do up their cars.

Agree - hence my request for publishers to look outside the square. i.e. a non intrusive USB dongle that contains the game on a chip?

I wouldn't want to have to keep track of a USB thingie for each of them.Now one might combine them in a device that can take care of the authorization with each new game, but those probaly too could get cracked.

That is my idea is to have the game on the chip - all in one. It will be cracked but I assume that it will be like the Nintendo64 cartridges - how many of those were pirated?

Im afraid you're too intelligent to be a FREELOADER

Hmm, is that a insult or a compliment?

Compliment of course

 

[TheSilver]

Whereas we poor Computer users have to put up with differences in OSs, CPUs, Videocards, amount of RAM, other conflicting programs installed and other problems.

That is part of the fun - just like petrol heads that do up their cars.

I tend to agree, though not everybody sees it that way.

Im afraid you're too intelligent to be a FREELOADER

Hmm, is that a insult or a compliment?

Compliment of course

Aww, now I feel all warm on the inside ;D

 

[wharekura.749]

...I got a few people, maybe 5% of the total, who basically said "I do it because I like free stuff and won't get caught. I'd do the same with anything if I knew I'd get away with it." This is depressing, but thankfully a small minority...

Thanks for this reference. I hope that he is right and I am wrong.

But that aside, people are coming up with justifications for piracy. Whether you agree or not, the fact that they feel they can justify it means there are some things that at least need to be discussed, if not addressed.

Agree - hence this topic. I want the FREELOADERS to express their opinions here.I hope that I am wrong about FREELOADERS.I hope that there is some other reason which will "fix" it all and game publishers will continue to bring out cool games for PC.I hope the there will be more games like The Witcher that amazes me.

Curb what, and what big brother laws? Sorry if I've misunderstood your post, but I can't see any reference to specifics?

UK are sending out warning letters to people that download "pirated" stuff. Then after 3 strikes, they are banned via their IP through. (no point going through the technicalities of law or how it can be enforced - the point is it is in place) This law is also coming through to Australia and being considered in New Zealand.

(I didn't cross post it because it's a wall of text and I'm trying to behave ).

I got told off for going off topic so join the club

 

[RPGOracle]

Let me start by saying that I am a software developer myself, and am against freeloaders (who play games without ever paying for them).But let's look at the copy protection issue from a different viewpoint...* MOST COPY PROTECTIONS DON'T WORK.New pirated games are usually released including a crack for the copy protection (and let's fact it, on today's internet, it's not like these pirated versions are hard to find!).This means that freeloaders get a version of the game with the copy protection disabled, and the only people suffering from the copy protection are the ones who actually bought the game (eg with the requirement to insert the original DVD every time they wish to play).So basically, all kinds of disk-based copy protection are bad. The only kind of copy protection that does work, is a kind of on-line verification scheme (like the one that is/was used in Bioware's digital distribution premium modules for Neverwinter Nights).But again, this may piss off some paying users, as they will have to have an open internet connection everytime they wish to play the game, and they have to suffer the verification process each time.In addition, using any kind of copy protection in a game costs money too, so any developer using any form of copy protection has to make very sure that the addition of this copy protection will not actually result in more piracy (because of pissed off gamers who prefer the cracked version of the game).So the addition of copy protection isn't as simple and as black&white as it sounds from the above post.

 

[xuereb]

Good point by Cheiron. At a point in time, on the Bioware forums, the members were suggesting to other members to download a crack for their game so they won't have to deal with some of the activations etc. Obviously the Bioware Developers didn't like it, but it's their fault for screwing with their own fans.

 

[st_ghost]

Please remember that posts pertaining or hinting to ways of circumventing or obtaining pirated media of any kind violate the forum rules, so please tread lightly and be sure to discuss the topic itself without delving into too many details Also, as a general reminder, double posting is frowned upon as everyone has an edit button they can use.Thank you.

 

[username_17]

Ok, I'm not a "Freeloader" or pirate, and I'm not a native english speaker too, but I think this is a topic where I have to put my mustard in. So please excuse me if I can't discuss this on a "high english" level.Well... without counting I can say I have more than hundred games (maybe so 150 or above). And the pirated ones under them, I can count on one hand.And I agree totally with Cheiron at the moment, because... I bought The Witcher, only to find out that the copy protection always said: "Please insert original DVD" and I got really mad with those hundreds of trying until it runs at the end. I was complete angry about the fact, that I have payed money and am not able to play the game, while those pirates are laughing at me and had fun on playing their cracked versions!That's one point, the next is the Djinni: Maybe you know that I was on the contest mod, and I got mad with Djinni, because every time when I load (yes, presence!) the Djinni-Editor, it takes me 3 or 4 times to get rid of that damned message and start it. That are always ten minutes or so that are lost and sometimes it crashes the whole system to do a restart. I don't know if there exists a cracked version of the Djinni too, but you can be sure that if I ever find one, I will use it, only to get rid of that stupid message and those system crashs.I am no programmer, still a beginner with all this stuff, but I'm pretty sure that good programmers can find another way to protect their games. I hope they will do this some day.And about those NWN stuff: I had no internet connection for 4 years during my gaming time with NWN, so what about those who buy such a game and then find out that they must have internet for playing or at last register to play it? That's one of the reasons why I have internet again now. But what with the people who can't efford the money for internet or whatever the reason is why they don't have a connection? They will never be able to play the game they bought legal, because they have to had internet, or otherwise they can throw their (maybe expensive) game out of the window or bring it back to the shop.So this is no solution for this problem...Ah, and you wanted to know some reasons why people get illegal copys of games, well here are my reasons for the few copied games I have:They were to old to find them in any shop or whereever to purchase them, so I asked friends to make a copy for me. Well, most of them are that old, that they are free available today, but years ago they weren't. I hope that there will be many, many old games on this site, when it starts, because I'm still searching for a few ones... http://www.gog.com/en/introAnd one of it is a newer one, it's the american version (uncutted), forbidden here in germany even for people that are older than 18 years... well, nothing against laws, but I'm old enough to decide for myself if a game (and that's what it is) is to bloody for me or not... and no politican has to decide this for me, because I'm not a baby that needs protection from some stupid politican !!!Those are my reasons, there are sure other people that think like me, and also sure there will ever be people that are thinking otherwise.Only one word left to say: The "important" pirates are sure those, who make lots of money with selling copies, and those are the ones who should be thrown into jail forever. Not the few people that do it, because they have no money or such unimportant reasons.Btw, nice site, this "talking to pirates" one....

 

[Licaon_Kter]

@wharekura: alse see this all is fine when the copy protection software works with your hardwareall is fine when you don't go beyond it's restrictionsall is fine when you're running the *approved* OS/hardwareand so on...do remember the famous words: " Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. "

 

[username_17]

Hehehe... first, much thanks to you, Licaon_Kter... I really thought of buying that "Spore" game, but the last sentence in this fine little story did change my mind from one second to the other. Well, I can say without feeling guilty, I would never buy a game like Mass Effect, but if I ever wanted to buy it, I would do this no longer.. this "solution" EA has made for this game would be one reason for me to get an illegal copy!@Licaon_Kter:And second: well... look at your PM

 

[Licaon_Kter]

@Licaon_Kter:And second: well... look at your PM

right back at you, hopefully you will at least watch the video there, made me put stuff into perspective, maybe it will tickle you brain too

 

[wharekura.749]

* MOST COPY PROTECTIONS DON'T WORK.So the addition of copy protection isn't as simple and as black&white as it sounds from the above post.

Once again I agree. My point is for the publishers to look outside the [] of their conventional methods of copy protection.

 

[wharekura.749]

...other members to download a crack for their game

I agree again - but I will continue to repeat that my point about this thread is for the publishers to look outside the [].