Another monster weather deck rant + suggestions

[infringer]

Another monster weather deck rant + suggestions

So here I am with my basic cards and decks and every second game I face monster weather deck, I lose two first rounds too often and it's not even close. So. fucking. frustrating. Tried dbomb and clear skies but they don't help anything after my buffs were already negated and if I don't use them at the end they will save a weather card for my strongest row. I am sorry but I don't see how I can win vs them besides building a deck that doesn't rely on buffs which I don't think I have cards for at the moment. If I try anything else they will kill my weakened units with wild hunt and special cards.

So my suggestion is either:

-make caranthir and woodland spirit legendary, delete them from every player's account and refund 200 scrap.

-just straight up nerf their stats... spirit is 7 gold + 3 immune + fog(which combos with foglets ofc) and caranthir is 8 gold + 4 immune + frost. I don't see how that's fair towards other epic cards.

And so many other minions that are immune and have very good stas (3 wild hunt riders, warrios, foglets, sarah, ice giant) or very good itself (hag)

I think I tried everything... am I missing something here?

 

[SOLID-FAISAL]

if you're playing with the skellige deck that shouldn't be a problem just use Harald The Crippled after using the savage bear, his cards will be weakened by 1 then use Harald's ability it'll remove 4 strength from all opposing weakened cards (non-gold).

good luck

 

[infringer]

Yes I thought about Harald but with tremors, not the bear. If I play the bear early it dies instantly. But it will be a while until I have Harald, I am not sure if I want to craft him next

 

[Necro_Man_Ser]

Weather decks are still OP. I play one myself and only the most cunning opponents know how to overcome this strategy. IMO it's OP because it's easy to spam weather cards which has a great effect, and there are not many ways to deal with it in an effective manner. So it's easy to do and very hard to counter - and it's universally strong, only minor weakness is NR decks with lots of gold cards, but even those struggle hard.

Weather is out of bounds right now. And as usual, since it's strong, almost everybody plays it, which makes it very frustrating for gamers who don't have the cards to play it themselves.
#openbetastruggles

It think a first step in the right direction would be that you can't cast the same weather more than once per round, but that would be a beginning at best, more would need to be done.

 

[Zeugs]

I think a big part of this perception is a lack of gold/silver cards right now. Once decks with max gold/silver card counts are more common, weather will be more balanced. This will still be a problem for new players however, perhaps they should add a neutral counter for it. Something like 'half strength to all weather immune mobs' or 'set all units under the effects of weather to base strength' would be good situational counters and be healthy for the meta as well.

 

[NoahFence]

None of your suggestions sound fair to Monster decks at all. So many people complaining about Monster's that you just know it won't be worth playing next patch.

Anyways, I think the problem is matchmaking is putting you up against advanced players since you mentioned you don't have the cards to counter em. (Hint: All the OP monsters you mentioned, except Silver and Gold can be wiped with pretty much any special card...)

 

[Gersen]

-just straight up nerf their stats... spirit is 7 gold + 3 immune + fog(which combos with foglets ofc) and caranthir is 8 gold + 4 immune + frost. I don't see how that's fair towards other epic cards.

You mean compared to Shani, who is also an epic, that can resurrect any card in your graveyard and convert it to gold which gives it +2 STR and makes it totally immune to most special cards. On the other side the foglets or wolves invoked by Caranthir or Woodland can be one-shots by a single Tremor or a lacerate.

And so many other minions that are immune and have very good stas (3 wild hunt riders, warrios, foglets, sarah, ice giant) or very good itself (hag)

Yes... but most of those units are pretty weak, foglets are perfect tremor targets, wild hunt can be lacerated to oblivion and warriors are manticore poison magnets. Sarah, yes she can be boosted but a single scorch and she is gone forever.

Personally I don't think that Caranthir or Woodland are the problem, it's more the core mechanics behind weather.

Weather makes Monster powerful against other faction (I disagree that NR really need to struggle, that's the only faction that can bypass/mitigate weather thanks to promote) but on the other side it's the only crowd control they got, their other removal/buffs are pretty weak and monster nest is too easy to counter. Without weather Monster would be very weak against the strong unit spaming capability of NR or Skellige.

IMHO what they could do is :

Make weather cards silver, you can have 9 bronze weather card in your deck + silvers + gold (+ leader is you are playing Dagon), but on the other side only you can only get three clear sky. Either add a couple of silver weather removal or lower the amount of weather cards.

Another possibility is to make weather more "faction neutral" with every faction having it's preferred/disliked weather, for example :

Monsters are buffed by fog, resistant to frost but weak against rain.
Skellige are buffed by rain, resistant to fog, but weak against frost.
NR, buffed by frost, resistant to rain, weak against fod,
etc...

But then it would also mean giving monsters more/stronger faction specific removal to compensate for the loss of their weather advantage.

 

[geok1ng]

About caranthir and woodland spirit: they cost 200, but they are goldens, so if you have ragnarok, there is only one spot left among your goldens.

foglets: i am still not sure if they help or hurt weather decks, because they take 3 card spots on the deck, are easily countered and do not help the monsters passive ability.

Wild hunt riders: another card that takes 3 spots and die as soon as it enters the field.

Wild Hunt warriors: these guys do not combo well, unless you spent 800 on a silver for a wild hunt combo. also when buffed at 6 strength they make a target for combo scorching the ancient foglets and a single buffed sarah.

Sarah? My sarah never survives long, unless i save her for the last round, before ragnarok, but then again, as soon as she is out, my adversary pretty much knows what is coming anyway...She is a damage magnet, an expensive one that takes a silver spot. before buffing, anything can kill her, and afetr a few weather cards, she is a scorch target.

Ice giant: takes a silver slot, so-so unbuffed, after buff, scorch magnet.

the hag? takes a silver slot with 4 strength. still not sure if she is better than a dual weather card.

Note that a weather deck also suffers from the lack of silver spots: sarah, water hag, ice giant, nithral. If you want all 4, you will not have spots for dual weather silvers, D bomb, scorch, commanders horn, aeromancy and decoy.

Finally, note that weather decks depend too much of the melee row, so decks with high damage output decimate them even without weather resistance. i once had faced hummiliation againts a dwarf deck: zoltan chivalry on the first round, ambushes on the melee row and lots of direct damage. i lost both rounds without being able to keep a single unit non-gold alive at the end of both...

 

[Rawls]

Post deleted, do not insult others.

 

[gamingdevil800]

Weather decks are still OP. I play one myself and only the most cunning opponents know how to overcome this strategy. IMO it's OP because it's easy to spam weather cards which has a great effect, and there are not many ways to deal with it in an effective manner. So it's easy to do and very hard to counter - and it's universally strong, only minor weakness is NR decks with lots of gold cards, but even those struggle hard.

Weather is out of bounds right now. And as usual, since it's strong, almost everybody plays it, which makes it very frustrating for gamers who don't have the cards to play it themselves.
#openbetastruggles

It think a first step in the right direction would be that you can't cast the same weather more than once per round, but that would be a beginning at best, more would need to be done.

I consider myself pretty cunning at this game but facing a monster weather deck... man its tough I've prevailed a few times as long as their hand isn't full of 4 or more weather cards. I'm building a second NR deck with Henselt as the leader with the purpose of solely destroying monster decks. I'm picking out cards that turn gold/take advantage when they turn gold or golds are played.

 

[cheeto101]

I dont know how changes card prices would affect game balance.

Spirit could probably lose the wolves and still be a very good card. Move the wolves to another card so breeders could use it though.

Caranthir isn't a big problem imo and is in line with other legendaries, especially considering how poor wild hunt synergy is currently.

 

[infringer]

I dont know how changes card prices would affect game balance.

Spirit could probably lose the wolves and still be a very good card. Move the wolves to another card so breeders could use it though.

Caranthir isn't a big problem imo and is in line with other legendaries, especially considering how poor wild hunt synergy is currently.

I suggested changing their rarity so that new players have more freedom what to build and not to play every game against/with monsters weather. I don't know if on high mmr / full decks weathers are imbalanced but I feel like they are at low/new player mmr, and most people abuse it. I just played 4 games vs weathers in a row, fortunately won 3 of them, only because I try to counter them with my deck but it's really hard.

 

[pl91]

as i suggested in another thread this is my idea for nerfing that deck.

i think an easy way to nerf yet not make it unplayable is that cards like woodland spirit for example dont just spawn the weather effect, but actually play the fog card from your deck.

this way a).you are forced to actually have the weather cards in your deck in order to activate the effect,instead of activating it for free(which obviously will remove some other useful cards cards from your deck)
b).even if you actually have put the correspnding card in your deck,you would actually need to not have it in your hand.
c).it actually introduces some decision making in building your deck in the way of having to decide which weather cards you want in your deck,and which cards you choose to remove.

 

[infringer]

as i suggested in another thread this is my idea for nerfing that deck.

i think an easy way to nerf yet not make it unplayable is that cards like woodland spirit for example dont just spawn the weather effect, but actually play the fog card from your deck.

this way a).you are forced to actually have the weather cards in your deck in order to activate the effect,instead of activating it for free(which obviously will remove some other useful cards cards from your deck)
b).even if you actually have put the correspnding card in your deck,you would actually need to not have it in your hand.
c).it actually introduces some decision making in building your deck in the way of having to decide which weather cards you want in your deck,and which cards you choose to remove.

yea sounds good