Eddies feel worthless.

[Ghost_carapace]

Eddies feel worthless, and death feels meaningless. As does the health bar.

If my health hits zero, I should die, wake up in a ripper clinic and should have some or even all of my cyberware disabled and broken until I can pay for it to be repaired. And if the game is too hard that players can't avoid hitting zero, the player needs to be buffed. Or the enemies need to be nerfed.

Oh, and crashing cars should cost eddies to repair.

And we should be able to steal cars, and turn them in for scrap which can be sold for eddies.

And we should be able to run food runs from biotechnica out to the various restuarants for eddies.

 

[DjSpyder]

Death is just death,

You can reload your last save or get really hardcore and start a new save every time you die, but death is death, there is no penalty because you're dead. You're looking for a GTA style death mechanic, which I'll admit works in some games, but plenty of games go with a die and reload save type system and that's fine too. A permadeath mode is something that could also be interesting for people who like a serious challenge but should definitely be an optional mode.

As for the other suggestions, they're not bad, but there is no wat they'll be implemented at this point, I'd love more side gigs and repeatable activities/jobs. But with CP Orion, the new Witcher games, the 2 new offices they're opening and CDPR saying they're moving from Red Engine to UE5, I'd expect any future updates to be pretty small unless they surprise drop something big on us, which honestly, I don't see happening.

 

[Draconifors]

Oh, and crashing cars should cost eddies to repair.

This already is a thing, to some extent. Sometimes when you summon your vehicle after it has previously taken damage from crashes, you're deducted a small amount of eddies.

 

[ToreadorVampire]

Mmmmm, CP is a game, not a simulator.

I'd be really annoyed with perma-death or death-penalty mechanics, and I suspect I'm in the majority there. I have a lot of time to put into the game compared to the average player, but even so I'm never going to sink thousands of hours into this one game. If the game "undid" my progress, yeah, that would lead to frustration and not enjoying the game on my part. Even the side-quest in Kabuki where you "get scammed" and have all of your gear stolen, it takes only a minute or two of gameplay to get it all back. With interest, in fact, if you count loot from defeated enemies.

Also, death penalties would be troublesome, because there is a finite limit on "interesting" side content. If dying meant you needed to re-grind over the same content to restore your lost stuff, you'd be more likely to run out of content to grind.

I think it's a mechanic for a different kind of game IMO.

 

[Ghost_carapace]

That finite limit on "interesting content" needs to be removed via repeatable content loops that are constructed by an AI taking building blocks to quests and constructing them.

 

[ToreadorVampire]

repeatable content loops that are constructed by an AI taking building blocks to quests and constructing them.

Has this ever been done in a good way, in any game? I'm not convinced that the tech for doing that, is actually that good yet

Sure it exists, but it tends to boil down to "the same small number of side quests, with the words and irrelevant details swapped around". So "Assassinate the Mafia boss" is basically identical to "Neutralise the courier". CP is not Diablo 2/similar. AFAICT it's not intended that you continue grinding beyond max level because there's no real point. The content is almost all curated/human-crafted and I like that about CP.

Certainly on this play through, when I hit max level, I will just go for the endings only, and complete the PL main quest if there's any of it left. I'll save any remaining side content for another play though another time.

 

[DjSpyder]

That finite limit on "interesting content" needs to be removed via repeatable content loops that are constructed by an AI taking building blocks to quests and constructing them.

They added repeatable content in PL, in the form of airdrops and auto fixer missions. Which is a start, but honestly, it's not as much as I think most of us would have hoped for. It's sadly all we're likely to get however with development teams moving on to other things.

Hopefully the sequel gets more consideration with regards to radiant quests and world events, UE5 is supposedly a much more robust engine and should allow them to integrate some of the systems they had trouble with in CP2077.

 

[vinnyr011001]

They added repeatable content in PL, in the form of airdrops and auto fixer missions. Which is a start, but honestly, it's not as much as I think most of us would have hoped for. It's sadly all we're likely to get however with development teams moving on to other things.

Hopefully the sequel gets more consideration with regards to radiant quests and world events, UE5 is supposedly a much more robust engine and should allow them to integrate some of the systems they had trouble with in CP2077.

Yeah, I don't think CP2077 or Project Orion need AI procedurally generated gigs or quests. Maybe the tech will be further along in a few years and it could be good. However, things as they are I would much rather they make the modding tools as robust, accessible, and generous as possible so people can create modded additional quests or gigs.

I'll take a larger pool of gigs or side missions handmade by players over AI copy pasta. They could probably integrate an AI modding tool to help guide modders but looking at the current state of Wolvenkit that also seems like a pipe dream.

Not gonna happen for 2077 and realistically I don't know the compatibility of Unreal 5 for modding so probably a long shot anyway.

 

[aladinf]

There is a mod that introduces an insurance model which sets you back to a ripperdock when you die and you have to pay insurance fees. But yeah at some point money becomes irrelevant. Thats pretty much when the run ends. Or you bath in your opness a little longer.

 

[BigWezz69]

Has this ever been done in a good way, in any game? I'm not convinced that the tech for doing that, is actually that good yet

Sure it exists, but it tends to boil down to "the same small number of side quests, with the words and irrelevant details swapped around". So "Assassinate the Mafia boss" is basically identical to "Neutralise the courier". CP is not Diablo 2/similar. AFAICT it's not intended that you continue grinding beyond max level because there's no real point. The content is almost all curated/human-crafted and I like that about CP.

Certainly on this play through, when I hit max level, I will just go for the endings only, and complete the PL main quest if there's any of it left. I'll save any remaining side content for another play though another time.

V is a merc, there should be endless contracts for merc work. Plus, seeing that you don't really see any other mercs doing anything, it would seem that V is the only one working

Post automatically merged: Nov 2, 2023

Eddies feel worthless, and death feels meaningless. As does the health bar.

If my health hits zero, I should die, wake up in a ripper clinic and should have some or even all of my cyberware disabled and broken until I can pay for it to be repaired. And if the game is too hard that players can't avoid hitting zero, the player needs to be buffed. Or the enemies need to be nerfed.

Oh, and crashing cars should cost eddies to repair.

And we should be able to steal cars, and turn them in for scrap which can be sold for eddies.

And we should be able to run food runs from biotechnica out to the various restuarants for eddies.

Sound's like a good game, but that isn't what CDPR made..

They didn't even tie in Trauma Team in to when the player dies .. nor did they utilise MaxTac (in the base game at launch)

 

[ToreadorVampire]

V is a merc, there should be endless contracts for merc work

Oh, I agree in principle there should be "endless gigs" but where it comes to actually writing the software to make this a reality in the game, the tech really just doesn't exist yet.

Perhaps some day (we're not there yet) AI will actually be able to do that. We'd need a true AI-integrated game engine though, which doesn't yet exist (I bet it's being explored though!).

Each of the gigs in the game would have taken weeks of effort from entire teams of developers and would have been completely custom written. If the dev teams had been tasked with creating "an AI based mission generator" then sure we'd get endless missions. They would all feel like a small number of base missions, copy-pasted with a few inconsequential details changed around. To my knowledge, nobody who has set out to write a mission-generator in any game has ever done any better than this. I'm very glad CDPR didn't try.

Well, there are the airdrops and vehicle contracts in PL. I've done a few airdrops now and yeah, they are very same-y. Murder a bunch of peeps, perhaps beach protocol the goods, collect stuff, pick corpses clean. Rinse, repeat, profit.

 

[BigWezz69]

Oh, I agree in principle there should be "endless gigs" but where it comes to actually writing the software to make this a reality in the game, the tech really just doesn't exist yet.

Perhaps some day (we're not there yet) AI will actually be able to do that. We'd need a true AI-integrated game engine though, which doesn't yet exist (I bet it's being explored though!).

Each of the gigs in the game would have taken weeks of effort from entire teams of developers and would have been completely custom written. If the dev teams had been tasked with creating "an AI based mission generator" then sure we'd get endless missions. They would all feel like a small number of base missions, copy-pasted with a few inconsequential details changed around. To my knowledge, nobody who has set out to write a mission-generator in any game has ever done any better than this. I'm very glad CDPR didn't try.

Well, there are the airdrops and vehicle contracts in PL. I've done a few airdrops now and yeah, they are very same-y. Murder a bunch of peeps, perhaps beach protocol the goods, collect stuff, pick corpses clean. Rinse, repeat, profit.

Not a great example, but Bethesda has managed with radiant quests for some time now. It works ok enough in Starfield. Side stuff doesn't need to be a work of art.

Most of the small gigs weren’t all that interesting, additionally, all the side jobs, scanner hustles etc were quite forgettable.

The main issue with any of the missions is that the player was given a great mission structure in act 1, specifically when you had to get the spider bot. A bit front loaded imo, but side stuff doesn't need that level of detail as long as it gave you Eddies.

Contract work/radiant quest like gigs should have been in the base game, players could choose to do them or not, but having a choice is always a good thing. However, with how much was lacking from the game, I'm not entirely suprised.

 

[deathshere]

well they never finished the game, Trauma Team is basically non-existent after te first mission you see them in.

 

[vinnyr011001]

V is a merc, there should be endless contracts for merc work. Plus, seeing that you don't really see any other mercs doing anything, it would seem that V is the only one working

In the Afterlife, Heavy Hearts and Mama Welles' bar there are mercs that refer to a gig they're planning or dealing with the aftermath of one so there is a sense there are other merc's working. The gigs with Tiny Mike and Big Pete also demonstrate the presence of other active mercs.

Since merc work is meant to be under the radar so I'm not sure how they would show that other mercs are working other than news reports talking about mid-high profile robberies, disappearances or murders. I'm using the Stock Market mod (excellent mod btw) which also provides V news texts in response to certain in-game events, so maybe an extension of that kind of mechanic

Sound's like a good game, but that isn't what CDPR made..

They didn't even tie in Trauma Team in to when the player dies .. nor did they utilise MaxTac (in the base game at launch)

This is undeniable. As much as I love this game and it's world it's clear it is unfinished. Aside from the most disastrous launch in video game history the absence of Trauma Team, minimal involvement of Max Tac, no work Metro system, many areas of the map partially developed and locked away, lack of car customization, etc... all point to the fact that time started to run out (amongst other factors) and they had to dial A LOT of the original vision way, way back.

The amount of depth and polish in Act 1 is never really repeated, although I am really enjoying Phantom Liberty, and Dogtown is both gorgeous and solidly executed imo.

Post automatically merged: Nov 3, 2023

Mmmmm, CP is a game, not a simulator.

This. It's a narrative driven open world game, not a GTA life-sim like San Andreas.

I really like the life-sim stuff (making CJ jacked or obese was fun!) but I wonder if some of it wouldn't make a lot of sense in the context of the story. V dying and being on a tight time schedule yet also literally having as many days as the player wants in order to do all the open world side content already stretches the limits.

 

[BigWezz69]

In the Afterlife, Heavy Hearts and Mama Welles' bar there are mercs that refer to a gig they're planning or dealing with the aftermath of one so there is a sense there are other merc's working. The gigs with Tiny Mike and Big Pete also demonstrate the presence of other active mercs.

Since merc work is meant to be under the radar so I'm not sure how they would show that other mercs are working other than news reports talking about mid-high profile robberies, disappearances or murders. I'm using the Stock Market mod (excellent mod btw) which also provides V news texts in response to certain in-game events, so maybe an extension of that kind of mechanic

I think seeing the aftermath of a job by others, or getting involved with a job with other mercs could have been done. Or even V intercepting other mercs/other mercs intercepting V as they are pulling a job would have been excellent.

Unfortunately, what CDPR did was the cardinal sin of storytelling; "tell, don't show". Sort of like Episode 2 of Star Wars with Anakin and Obi Wan in the elevator at the start, where the audience is "told" (tell) that they are both good friends by rattling off stuff they've previously did, instead of showing it.

Good writing and storytelling is about showing the audience what is happening. A fine example of this is Arcane episode 1 with the opening on the bridge. Beside the singing, there is no dialog, yet the audience is shown exactly what is going on, sets the tone, shows what has happened, who is involved, the outcome, and has a bit of foreshadowing sprinkled in too. Perfect.

This is undeniable. As much as I love this game and it's world it's clear it is unfinished. Aside from the most disastrous launch in video game history the absence of Trauma Team, minimal involvement of Max Tac, no work Metro system, many areas of the map partially developed and locked away, lack of car customization, etc... all point to the fact that time started to run out (amongst other factors) and they had to dial A LOT of the original vision way, way back.

The amount of depth and polish in Act 1 is never really repeated, although I am really enjoying Phantom Liberty, and Dogtown is both gorgeous and solidly executed imo.

In my first playthrough, one of the first things I did when I was given control was to go up to the nearest vendor stall only to find out that it was basically just a prop, and the player could not interact at all with it. This was the very first crack in the immersion for me, and I just kept noticing more and more issues and missing features that would/should make the game world feel alive.

A prime example of a living and breathing would be the world of RDR2 and how reactive the world is to the player and what you can get up to.

 

[ToreadorVampire]

I think seeing the aftermath of a job by others, or getting involved with a job with other mercs could have been done.

I've just played through a gig in which this happens. In PL there's a gig named "Waiting for Dodger".

Without wanting to go into spoilers, this very much ticks the boxes of "Being involved in someone else's aftermath".

 

[BigWezz69]

I've just played through a gig in which this happens. In PL there's a gig named "Waiting for Dodger".

Without wanting to go into spoilers, this very much ticks the boxes of "Being involved in someone else's aftermath".

Yeah a one time thing just doesn't really cut it imo.

The Cyberpunk universe has a plethora of mercs all doing crazy stuff, but it just doesn't seem like anything happens in NC unless V is present or V is causing it.

Most of the scripted events feel hollow. If we could witness mercs doing their thing and putting together a crew to pull a job would have been awesome.

Goodness knows why CDPR did not include such world building mechanics. The word sure needs something to make it feel alive!