Fixing the Create Leaders

[iamthedave]

Which is why I think direct crones synergy is better. The Hillock...

Spoiler: story spoiler

is explicitly their mother.

So designing her to work with those three golds would make sense, and those three golds are powerful anyway, so it wouldn't marginalise the Hillock, so much as improve or re-use those effects you want anyway, and since they're all relicts it feeds into a relict synergy deck anyway.

 

[Sarn_paradox]

I believe the reason why the new leaders have such low win rates is due to the RNG side of things. For example Hillock could actually be strong if it could 100% draw/create crows eye, this in turn would help create synergy with one of the crones. Something similar to this I see being very effective.

Another thought about "create" should be that when involving all the cards or related cards of similar subject, via organic, perhaps more options than just 3 should be offered perhaps 5 options? or pick 2 out of the 3? That or just give a better buff to the more obvious cards that are clearly weak in the meta. Bronze spells have especially gotten a lot of attention for discussion. Mentions of buffing, carrying over the damage if it kills a unit, or perhaps better synergy between cards. The biggest example of synergy is the Viper witcher.

Lastly if "create" is going to be a popular thing about the RNG side of pick a random 3, then it should perhaps include a buff with the card. For example I have an option of 3 soldiers, which ever i pick it gets buffed by an additional 2-4pts. Or if the Leader Card picks a spell maybe for how much damage it does it receives a buff of half the amount. This key to winning most games is clearly synergy between your cards. Even though I play a 1 point bronze card, the total can end up being between 10-16. We need "create" to be on similar terms consistently to compete with meta decks.

This is the final outcome we're looking for. Competitive side, we dont like RNG, but if its going to be implemented then it needs to work properly. A little RNG can be fun and rewarding if played correcly, to much RNG kills the competitive side of the game. Its always important to remember that.

 

[iamthedave]

This is the final outcome we're looking for. Competitive side, we dont like RNG, but if its going to be implemented then it needs to work properly. A little RNG can be fun and rewarding if played correcly, to much RNG kills the competitive side of the game. Its always important to remember that.

Nobody complained about the choose 3 option mages. I think that's the direction they should go. Anything that has create should switch to a choose 3 card. Choose 3 is more work, you have to pick the cards it can use, but those cards have a genuine place in GWENT. Create is just the wrong kind of mess for this game.

 

[DannyGuy]

I've been thinking about the new leaders quite a bit as well, create really doesn't work for them. Personally I think Eist is fine if slightly boring - he might even be overpowered in the new meta.

Oh god, Eist is terribly designed imo. You know why? Let's compare him to a similar leader - Eredin (Summon a Bronze Wild Hunt unit). All the Wild Hunt units have very clear Synergy (Even the least Synergistic one - Wild Hunt Warrior still benefits from Frost which is a part of the Archetype). But what Synergy do Tuirseach units have? Let's take a look:

Beastmaster - Summons a beast so I guess it has beast synergy
Axeman - Creates an archetype of its own, but the best leader for that is Harald (the Cripple) - there is no reason to use Eist instead
Hunter - (Used to be Brokvar) 1 dimensional damage dealing card, cool ability was removed with Midwinter patch
Veteran - Tuirseach Synergy, but none of the other Tuirseach units synergize with each other
Archer - Sort of has Axeman synergy, but it's mostly another 1-dimensional card - sometimes used to trigger Berserkers
Skirmisher - Resurrect Synergy...

Do you see a theme here? I don't. There isn't enough here to create a "Tuirseach" archetype. By the way, clans like Brokvar (Udalryk's clan) and Tordarroch (Harald Houndsnout's clan) were renamed to Tuirseach and An Craite respectively (Which makes no sense to me).

Eist either needs more synergistic Tuirseach units to create a Tuirseach archetype - or just needs a different ability like the create Leaders

 

[Sarn_paradox]

Another thought hit me about hillock, what if instead of "bronze or silver organic" it was just silver organic cards. The "create" 3 is okay, i think "choose from your deck" is a much better option just in general but if create had to stay then this isnt a bad option. Because all the silver organic cards are apart of the meta, ignoring manticore which in itself is 13 points so even then it isnt a bad play for an overall gold card.

So these leader cards all have good if not great value if you change the wording of them by a bit. I'm pretty sure this is the issue with most Gwent cards, if you change the text rather than just buffing or nerfing them by 1 or 2 points you'll see a large difference in win rate and/or creativity. One of my biggest examples is that recent PTR dwarf skirmisher change. Went from STRENGTHEN to BOOST. Thats a dramatic difference in the value and play style of high competitive decks because they're not getting those extra points from the grave.

 

[mforssner]

I agree with you. Create is just not a good fit for leader cards. My suggestions:

Adda: Spawn a bronze northern realms cursed unit.

Filavandrel: Spawn a bronze elf.

Whispering Hillock: Resurrect an organic bronze or silver card. (for lack of a more thematically appropriate idea)

 

[TrompeLaMort]

Usurper is fine, and it is actually played a lot.

The idea that Filavandrel could create a silver spell and put it in your hand, then draw a card, would make him a really cool leader. Spells are much more situational than units (in general), so sometimes you would really like having a scorch in hand, just not *right now*.

Eist is not really a create card, but I agree that of the new leaders, it is probably the worst. Someone said it right before here, it can create a lot of cards, like Eredin. But unlike Eredin, the cards it creates simply have no synergy with each other. In any deck you might run Eist (although you probably would never really want to), I can see only one choice that you would always choose for that deck. (Like axeman for axeman deck.) So it makes for a very boring card.

Whispering Hillock is in principle a playable leader. I don't see much problem with it.

 

[DannyGuy]

Eist is not really a create card, but I agree that of the new leaders, it is probably the worst. Someone said it right before here, it can create a lot of cards, like Eredin. But unlike Eredin, the cards it creates simply have no synergy with each other. In any deck you might run Eist (although you probably would never really want to), I can see only one choice that you would always choose for that deck. (Like axeman for axeman deck.) So it makes for a very boring card.

Twas I :hatsoff: