Hacking/engineering autoresolve

+
But by the same tolken the character is limited to what the player can, and can't do. If you're not say an expert racing sim player your character can never be an expert driver.
Why not? Yes, you will have to actually aim a gun at an enemy, but character's skill can still govern the other factors. Such as recoil or how steady your aim is. So by having better skill you can make it easier to hit your target, without having to resort rigging the bullets with RNG to "check" if you hit what you were aiming at or not. And because "missing" is inherent to you not being able to hit stuff, it means bullets can be more lethal, depending on where they hit (and other factors).
 
Yet that's only because there are no other means by which the player can control his character in PnP. In video games it's possible to use in-game controls as a proxy to have influence over what the player's character is doing. So as long as the player is still sufficiently impacted by character's skills there isn't all that much of a difference.

Those videogames are generally called FPS and action games. Whats the point of stats?
 
This topic is becoming a strawman.

It boils down to a matter of how will they do things.

I dont think i have nothing much to bring to the table, and i havent read anything worth either thjat can stray the solution of the issue from a "it depends".
 
Isn't the whole point of an RPG to play a character with skills and abilities you the player probably don't have?
That reminds me of the time when I stole some books in KC: D and realized I have to actually learn how to read (as Henry), before being able to read them for myself. Or how to shoot with a bow without breaking my own arm in the process.
 
I'd like to know how some of the minigame-haters here would propose to convey that certain things are skill-based to those that don't have the skill in a manner that is comparable in interactivity. I like having vital tasks be more than, "I rolled a 7; does that succeed?". I thought that that sort of thing was what made PC/console RPGs different from P&P ones. If I wanted RNG to be the be-all-end-all of skill resolution, dice are cheaper than software and books are cheaper than hardware, so why would I ever do RPG stuff on computers?

Of course, the minigame has to have a thematic and logical connection to the task at hand. I think the lockpicking system in Skyrim and Fallout 4 was good, aside from the fragility of lockpicks/bobbypins. If you disagree then what do you propose? Get rid of lockpicking and force a search for the key? Reduce the entire game to a pure-shooter and leave all the doors unlocked? Most of the other minigames from Skyrim were not nearly so great though; I could've done without those damn "Eagle, snake, bear" puzzle-locks.

Hacking is a bit of a problem though since a lot of folks have little/no relevant knowledge. Even those of us who build our own PCs are rarely coders. Consider that many hacks are either code-based (boring and uncinematic) or social engineering (hacking the wetware instead of the software), it's no wonder that most game devs make it a little more Hollywood.



Those are the folks that would be looking for weakspots in the walls or using social skills (or a gun to the head) to get others to grant them access. Hell, I'd be more likely to attack the hardware than the software myself. But doesn't knowing your weaknesses and finding a way to accomplish tasks anyways despite certain limitations require a certain amount of logic?
I have argued against minigames, though I do agree that the Bethesda lockpicking is one of the better ones. I don't really care for a heavy reliance on RNG either for the same reason that I am not a huge fan of minigame based solutions, it allows for situations where the skills of a character are ignored, like the equivalent of a PhD in cyber security who can't crack a bottom tier improvised firewall because of a bad roll or obtuse minigame, or the inverse a task that should be nearly impossible based on the character's skills, but is easily achievable because the player is really good at the minigame.

I will admit, I don't have any ways that I know would work or would provide a more satisfying experience, because I've never done professional game design, I do not know the pitfalls or what has previously been attempted in pre-production endeavors. I am not against saying some tasks requiring skill level X to attempt, and if they have that skill then they succeed. I would also be fine with requiring level 1 to attempt, 1-3 require minigame or RNG (though in the debate between minigame/rng I'd favor minigame), and 4+ results in auto-success.

Most RPG's are happy to give you attacks that you can perform simply because you have the skills and equipment and the effectiveness of those actions are solely a result of the character's qualities, but then when it comes to a handful of activities like hacking suddenly the character's traits are less relevant than the player's traits. This then creates scenarios where you can be a successful hacker who barely devotes any resources to hacking or putting all of the character points into it but still being ineffective, it undermines the character based role playing mechanics. Based on the demo it looks like CDPR is going with the skill based this is or is not possible check which works for me.

Oddly enough, while I think Bethesda's lock picking minigame is much more enjoyable than the door lock puzzles, I don't have a problem with the random puzzles because they aren't a reflection of lock-picking or some other action represented in the character sheet.
 
I feel like there is a simple solution to the save scumming rng idea. Make auto-reattempts part of the system. Instant success if at level or lower in skill, above that you have a 10% chance of success if one level short or a 1% chance if two levels short or .1% for three and so on. The idea being that your character is guessing at the way to solve. When failed the character just stays there guessing. Automatically reattempting over and over.

Visually this would require multiple animations for failed attempts where your character does incorrect things and then resets the terminal to try again. Skill be damned your character is the one that has to pull it off. You just decide how long you're willing to sit and watch them screw up.


Far from an elegant solution but I feel like it would be better than minigames, save scumming or can't attempt solutions.
 
I feel like there is a simple solution to the save scumming rng idea. Make auto-reattempts part of the system. Instant success if at level or lower in skill, above that you have a 10% chance of success if one level short or a 1% chance if two levels short or .1% for three and so on. The idea being that your character is guessing at the way to solve. When failed the character just stays there guessing. Automatically reattempting over and over.

Visually this would require multiple animations for failed attempts where your character does incorrect things and then resets the terminal to try again. Skill be damned your character is the one that has to pull it off. You just decide how long you're willing to sit and watch them screw up.


Far from an elegant solution but I feel like it would be better than minigames, save scumming or can't attempt solutions.

Even easier solution: no RNG, no minigame: just plain flat skill check: if your are high enough, it works, if not it don't.
It's like dices have already been rolled without the save scumming or player screwing problems.
 
I personally love autoresolve if it has a good justification. Like, each time it uses up a supply of some sort.

For example, let's say you have stealthy and loud lockpicking. Stealthy autoresolve uses up an automated lockpicking tool. Loud autoresolve uses up a predetermined amount of improvised or plastic explosives.

Stealthy hacking involves using a set of specialized scripts for autoresolve. Loud, on the other hand, involves a baseball bat and five minutes alone with the guy who has the password.

Maybe we can extend this to pickpocket skills as well? Stealthy uses a minidrone, loud uses a chainsaw?
 
I personally love autoresolve if it has a good justification. Like, each time it uses up a supply of some sort.

For example, let's say you have stealthy and loud lockpicking. Stealthy autoresolve uses up an automated lockpicking tool. Loud autoresolve uses up a predetermined amount of improvised or plastic explosives.

Stealthy hacking involves using a set of specialized scripts for autoresolve. Loud, on the other hand, involves a baseball bat and five minutes alone with the guy who has the password.

Maybe we can extend this to pickpocket skills as well? Stealthy uses a minidrone, loud uses a chainsaw?

Is there infinite ammo in this game?
Cause that would go by the same logic.
 
Is there infinite ammo in this game?
Cause that would go by the same logic.

The point is to provide some limitation so that you're not doing it all of the time. And maybe to allow options for people who tanked their stealth skills.

If there was infinite ammo, I'd use a rocket launcher as a door knocker. No need to unlock it if I can obliterate it or, failing that, make enough noise everyone inside comes out to play.
 
Act surprised when you realize your missle launcher is incapable of destroying solid objects.

It's a missile launcher with infinite ammo. I'm using that thing for every purpose I can imagine.

Need to open a door with security on the other side? Fire a missile at it and follow up with another when security investigates.

Need to know if security is around the corner? Missile right into the wall!

Need to distract bad guys by sending them off in another direction? Fire a missile in that direction!

Move object around? Missile, obviously.

Cat stuck in tree? Missile!

If I could, I'd mow the lawn by firing missiles at the ground and letting the explosions handle it. Hell, I'd cook with explosions if they'd allow it.
 
If I could, I'd mow the lawn by firing missiles at the ground and letting the explosions handle it. Hell, I'd cook with explosions if they'd allow it.
I won't mention the time we finished a demolition course and had about 30kg of C-4 left over so we dug a hole under a rather large tree and tried to launch it.
 
Top Bottom