Leader Spotlight: Dettlaff van der Eretein

[InkognitoXI]

Monsters need removal. If you look at the rock paper scissors of Gwent, monsters were always too much in their own hand. Bleeding plus deathblow is a removal archetype. SK and NR are as far as I know dominant. If I'm wrong please correct me.

No, you are right in that Monsters lack removal and that they were rather exclusive in that regard.
Monsters having removal as a faction actually reduces the pressure of being greedy and the need of little interaction gameplans, e.g. "Big Monsters" and thus reduces the number of these matchups.
However having even more removal and designing an entire new leader to have even more control matchups might not be the most tactful way to do things, with engines in mind.

Though all in all you are right that people contradict themselves this way, both wanting more interactive Monster matchups and then crying that in an interaction matchup their cards actually do get removed.

 

[Wonderboy8700]

No, you are right in that Monsters lack removal and that they were rather exclusive in that regard.
Monsters having removal as a faction actually reduces the pressure of being greedy and the need of little interaction gameplans, e.g. "Big Monsters" and thus reduces the number of these matchups.
However having even more removal and designing an entire new leader to have even more control matchups might not be the most tactful way to do things, with engines in mind.

Though all in all you are right that people contradict themselves this way, both wanting more interactive Monster matchups and then crying that in an interaction matchup their spɹɐɔ actually do get removed.

If anything the biggest problem with detlaff is that there is little incentive to use him with vampire decks. He creates token vampires who benefit from bloodmoon (if anyone even bothers with it,) and he seems quite adept at leading thrive and point slam decks with a few removal support cards. If you gave him one extra ping but no summoned vampires, it would strengthen his removal, but reduce his deck strength.

April fool's is pissing me off.

 

[C7Racehead]

I'm really liking the control archetype being introduced to MO; the faction is more interesting to play. I don't think our Deadly Laughter boy is over the top; there just seems to be a preference for engines over control on these boards which naturally leads to some people wanting him to get nerfed.

 

[InkognitoXI]

I'm really liking the control archetype being introduced to MO; the faction is more interesting to play. I don't think our Deadly Laughter boy is over the top; there just seems to be a preference for engines over control on these boards which naturally leads to some people wanting him to get nerfed.

Pretty much and at the same time they wish for Monsters to play less by themselves.
Interaction is Control in homecoming.
They contradict themselves by wishing for 2 mutually exclusive things to happen.
You sum it up in a rather fitting way, stating the cries for nerfs being at the control aspect over the actually balancing.

 

[Wonderboy8700]

Pretty much and at the same time they wish for Monsters to play less by themselves.
Interaction is Control in homecoming.
They contradict themselves by wishing for 2 mutually exclusive things to happen.
You sum it up in a rather fitting way, stating the cries for nerfs being at the control aspect over the actually balancing.

I disagree. It's not that they want people to play less monsters, it's that they dislike the way monsters was played. There was no variety. Point slam is essentially an auto pilot deck. If you add variety in the form of new cards who can do damage and inflict a new tag like bleeding or deathblow, now you have a fresh set of options.

 

[Alexander_Volgin]

Wait, if I type Dettlaff, do I get Deadlaugh?
Conspiracy not confirmed

 

[Wonderboy8700]

Wait, if I type Dettlaff, do I get Deadlaugh?
Conspiracy not confirmed

April fool's joke by CDPR.

 

[Rawls]

Vampire big scary. Shupe no like. Prefer Eithne. She Shupe gives water. Very nice.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

I'm really liking the control archetype being introduced to MO; the faction is more interesting to play. I don't think our Deadly Laughter boy is over the top; there just seems to be a preference for engines over control on these boards which naturally leads to some people wanting him to get nerfed.

Yeah its so much fun having every card you play immediately wiped from the board.....

Removal vs Removal is so interesting and fun.

 

[DRK3]

Dethlaff will be (or already is?) the new meta.

He's arguably, a better Brouver or Morvran, providing min. 6 pts but all the way to 12... and he's a MO Leader, so he has the strongest cardpool in the game.

Dethlaff Higher Vampire just outclassed Ruehin (which is extremely vulnerable to Regis Bloodlust) and Regis:BL just replaced Chironex. That Dominance 4pt gold vampire will also be on every MO deck, just like WH Riders. And the Crones are still borderline OP.

Personally i really like Crimson Curse card, and it provides insane value (earlier defeated a big woodlands, with 1 card still in hand... and didnt even realize i was in ranked) but most Dethlaff decks dont seem to use it, going for even simpler strategies, focused on instant value.

 

[Wonderboy8700]

Dethlaff will be (or already is?) the new meta.

He's arguably, a better Brouver or Morvran, providing min. 6 pts but all the way to 12... and he's a MO Leader, so he has the strongest cardpool in the game.

Dethlaff Higher Gharasham just outclassed Ruehin (which is extremely vulnerable to Regis Bloodlust) and Regis:BL just replaced Chironex. That Dominance 4pt gold Gharasham will also be on every MO deck, just like WH Riders. And the Crones are still borderline OP.

Personally i really like Crimson Curse pɹɐɔ, and it provides insane value (earlier defeated a big woodlands, with 1 pɹɐɔ still in hand... and didnt even realize i was in ranked) but most Dethlaff decks dont seem to use it, going for even simpler strategies, focused on instant value.

Put Morvran with the right cards or brover with the right cards and you can enhance value. The difference is "detlaff" doesn't require additional cards to get the extra value. At the same time, context matters. NG has 3 other leaders who allow 2 cards played per turn. One negates all leader abilities, and one takes an enemy engine without locking it and makes it his own. On the monster side, there are no other removal focused leaders. This unique characteristic is why so many people object. Honestly, the 12 points of value isn't the biggest issue, it's the fact that crimson curse works without using vampires in his decision because he can spawn them himself.

 

[C7Racehead]

Yeah its so much fun having every pɹɐɔ you play immediately wiped from the board.....

Removal vs Removal is so interesting and fun.

Control mirrors in MTG are the most tense and interesting games. It's not the same dynamic in GWENT due to the clear differences between both but it is still an archetype that I welcome with open arms.

The belief that engine-based decks make the game more complex & strategic is a half truth. Card sequencing is more important to carry home combos or get optimal value out of your engines but anticipating your opponent's next move is much less of a factor.

So it comes down to playstyles. You're obviously more of an engine oriented player and I'm not going to knock you for it.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

Control mirrors in MTG are the most tense and interesting games. It's not the same dynamic in GWENT due to the clear differences between both but it is still an archetype that I welcome with open arms.

The belief that engine-based decks make the game more complex & strategic is a half truth. Card sequencing is more important to carry home combos or get optimal value out of your engines but anticipating your opponent's next move is much less of a factor.

So it comes down to playstyles. You're obviously more of an engine oriented player and I'm not going to knock you for it.

I'm not really an engine oriented player. I just want the game to have diversity and not be dominated by removal which makes so many decks unusable. I have no desire to play any deck with engines as they stand no chance. Dana decks generally aren't just engine decks but I still dread trying to get whatever engines they have off.

I also find removal vs. removal decks to be extremely boring and uninteresting.

 

[Gelibolub]

can we all admit dettlaff is a bit op and needs to be nerfed?

 

[StrykerxS77x]

can we all admit dettlaff is a bit op and needs to be nerfed?

I'd say he is a bit above the power curve. lower provisions and/or take away 1 point from his vampires.

IMO all removal needs to be nerfed or armor given to engines.

 

[InkognitoXI]

[...]
Dethlaff Higher Vampire just outclassed Ruehin (which is extremely vulnerable to Regis Bloodlust)
[...]

Ruehin is just a meme though and awful if you want to build a serious deck.

[...] and Regis:BL just replaced Chironex.
[...]

Which is a card every faction can run.

[...]
And the Crones are still borderline OP.
[...]

The Crones are not any more insane than Letho, Serrit, Auckes and other packages that are supposed to carry their respective faction.

[...]
Personally i really like Crimson Curse card, and it provides insane value (earlier defeated a big woodlands, with 1 card still in hand... and didnt even realize i was in ranked) but most Dethlaff decks dont seem to use it, going for even simpler strategies, focused on instant value.

Dettlaff decks do not run Crimson Curse because it is just a highroll meme, it is super easy to disable, removing vampires is easy and there is no reason to rely on such an overkill strategy, that is like asking "Why does noone play Swim's "You pass you lose" deck in a serious way ?".

can we all admit dettlaff is a bit op and needs to be nerfed?

Certainly not without a single decent argument.

 

[Wonderboy8700]

Ruehin is just a meme though and awful if you want to build a serious deck.

Which is a card every faction can run.

The Crones are not any more insane than Letho, Serrit, Auckes and other packages that are supposed to carry their respective faction.

Dettlaff decks do not run Crimson Curse because it is just a highroll meme, it is super easy to disable, removing vampires is easy and there is no reason to rely on such an overkill strategy, that is like asking "Why does noone play Swim's "You pass you lose" deck in a serious way ?".


Certainly not without a single decent argument.

I agree with most of what you said, but want to add a few things.

1. Let's get serious in addressing the new leaders. Anna is a leader like usuper who messes with the way you play. She can really screw with you and even though I think she is underpowered (because create is a random,) she still plays a second card. Same goes with Dana, the hand building is restricted, but a second card is still useful. NR and SK leaders are both incredibly valuable to their factions existing archetypes. You can literally put blueboy lugos next to heymay protector and get 5 points of buff while doing 10 random damage and then get a 5 point bear abomination at the end. NR can play 4 engines at once. So to say detlaff is OP is a very narrow perspective.

The proper argument is that MO is over powered with detlaff. Honestly, I disagree with this argument as well. NR and SK are deadly now. SK can pull off massive combos and have strong engines (both offensive and defensive.) NR using shield and replicate can both over boost or over remove you. Sometimes, using tridam they can do both. ST is bottom of the food chain at present and NG has a ton of value cards with no true identity. This leaves MO. A faction previously defined by deathwish, Eredin immune and thrive/point slam. Ghouls got nerfed, the Witcher trio got nerfed, and MO now had a harder time with thinning. To say they are weak is incorrect, but to say they are the best card pool in the game is to overlook their weaknesses. NR and SK are both quite effective against MO. Moreover, since NR and SK get played more frequently than ST and NG in ranked, it is tough argument to make that MO is over powered. Honestly, Detlaff higher vampire card is very strong. Combined with consume or cyclops it adds extreme value. But like all finishers it can be locked or banished. Beyond that, non of the new CC cards are so devastating that you can argue a removal leader makes MO dominate.

In conclusion, while I would like to make some minor tweaks to detlaff, those tweaks would actually focus more on increasing his removal at the cost of his summoning lower vampires (he should provide one point boosts to existing vampires instead on deathblow.) You must remember detlaff in the context of other CC changes and changes to the meta as well.

 

[rrc]

The Crones are not any more insane than Letho, Serrit, Auckes and other packages that are supposed to carry their respective faction.

Please don't say Crones are just equal to Letho, Serrit, and Auckes. Crones are more OP than any other cards that work together. The reason is obvious and no one talks about it. While every other work-together cards need their partner to be in hand or on board, Crones just want the other cards to have been played. This just means that, their value is carried over and gives incredible proactive play.

If I draw only Letho in R1, it is a dead card (and in R2, if I only draw one of Serrit or Auckes, it is still not as good). If I draw only one Crone in R1, it is still perfectly playable (and the other in R2, is better and the last one in R3 will be super OP). So, NO, Letho-And-Co are not even nearly as OP as Crones. Crones are the best and the most OP work-together cards in the entire game (I wouldn't even say borderline.. They are the most OP). I am not saying it is wrong or they need to be nerfed, but saying that they are only as OP as others is plainly wrong and ridiculous IMHO.

Imagine Crones only work like Letho-And-Co, that you should have the other two for them to be effective. Or, if they are played in the same round or if they need to be on board. Then, and only then they are comparable and nearly the same as L-And-Co.

 

[Wonderboy8700]

Please don't say Crones are just equal to Letho, Serrit, and Auckes. Crones are more OP than any other cards that work together. The reason is obvious and no one talks about it. While every other work-together cards need their partner to be in hand or on board, Crones just want the other cards to have been played. This just means that, their value is carried over and gives incredible proactive play.

If I draw only Letho in R1, it is a dead card (and in R2, if I only draw one of Serrit or Auckes, it is still not as good). If I draw only one Crone in R1, it is still perfectly playable (and the other in R2, is better and the last one in R3 will be super OP). So, NO, Letho-And-Co are not even nearly as OP as Crones. Crones are the best and the most OP work-together cards in the entire game (I wouldn't even say borderline.. They are the most OP). I am not saying it is wrong or they need to be nerfed, but saying that they are only as OP as others is plainly wrong and ridiculous IMHO.

Imagine Crones only work like Letho-And-Co, that you should have the other two for them to be effective. Or, if they are played in the same round or if they need to be on board. Then, and only then they are comparable and nearly the same as L-And-Co.

Crones are ok but they are hardly the be all end all of Gwent. They cost 24 provisions, you can easily miss one, and their values while high aren't that high. Your point about bonus conditions is well taken though @rrc. In that regard they are easier to use.

 

[InkognitoXI]

Please don't say Crones are just equal to Letho, Serrit, and Auckes. Crones are more OP than any other cards that work together. The reason is obvious and no one talks about it. While every other work-together cards need their partner to be in hand or on board, Crones just want the other cards to have been played. This just means that, their value is carried over and gives incredible proactive play.
[...]

Yes, they are carryover, however let us be serious here, the first should always be Brewess (outside of specific decks), given that a multi consume later can actually be game-losing, depending on the matchup and in that case Brewess is a Celaeno Harpy with 2 more povisions and no upsides.
In that case the other 2 Crones will be 1 and 3 above curve respectively, meaning you get 25/24 points/provisions and 1 consume.
I agree that the carryover is a strong aspect, however they need setup, playing the least useful first for a mediocre to no synergy Brewess, just to be able to play the others later, while Letho will be an immediate answer with up to 1 above curve AND a lock, while Serrit can be 1 above curve and be a no-setup answer to engines, while the last one (Auckes) can still be a 2/2 higher Alba Armored Cavalry.
In that case they are 24/24 with 2 locks, which is a higher impact and depending on the matchup Auckes can be a deadlier Gimpy, shutting down Water of Brokilon, Portal engines (in case of 2 copies of the same), Nekkers and actually useful engines one runs 2 copies of.
My point is that the Crones have far more consistency and allow more variation in how they get played, while Letho/Serrit/Auckes are higher impact and are by far the best cards in Nilfgaard, which is sadly a faction with an awful faction identity.
To be fair I would like Nilfgaard to have more of these hand packages, however Palmerin was a massive disappointment in the expansion, which could get changed later on (remember the journey of Letho, until he was finally good and adding a lot to Nilfgaard).

To be fair though, these packages are (apart from the concept of Bear Skellige and a few other themes) my favourite aspect of Homecoming and Letho/Serrit/Auckes and the Crones are adding a lot to their respective factions.
I only wish that Palmerin would actually make sense in Nilfgaard, thus be worth playing with Milton and the "indirect" self reveal for Nilfgaard would grow that way.