Panam Palmer Storyline/Sidequests DLC [Spoilers]

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One more magnificent detail of Panam’s image:D. She has so complicated hairstyle.

I wonder who helped her to braid hair in such way earlier? Apparently such hairstyle is convenient for nomad girl who is always in moving.

It would be so touching if we would see Panam loosing her hair in front of V when they will be together alone after a day in AZ:)

You must have seen that there was a mod that also changes Panam's hairstyles. This is... disturbing for some styles.


Great pic! Tho she looks sorrowful and uncomfortable. It's about time for V to talk to Rogue and give Panam a call!

Thank you my Choom, V is not yet back in her life it's normal. :p
 
We've reached page 200.
Cheers!
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Nice milestone chooms.
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We're pretty much guaranteed to see more of Panam if the Nomad ending is canon. Even if it's not canon there's still a high probability of seeing Panam/Judy in DLC.

Edit: If CDPR decides to go with Crystal Palace for the expansion I wonder if we would still see her. Any ideas?

I've been here since Page 1 (above quote). 8th post. :D

Now we're at Page 200 and almost 4000 posts.
 
Guys, i read all your replies and i see how this characters (Panam, Judy and others) are important for many players. I want to believe that devs will pay attention to community's desires and let V get happy ending with Panam, Judy and Aldecaldos. I strongly disagree that cyberpunk cant have happy endings.
Personally I think that 2 of 5 endings have great potential to expand or develop.
These are Aldecaldo and Secret ending. The main difference between them is that aldecaldo ending is not only good (or even the best) but happy ending, while i cant say in the same way about secret one. Of course it is good ending too, because you become the Legend of NC and none of your friends die. But what did it cost? You have claimed the top of this city and in the same time you moved away your nearest friends (Panam and Judy were very dissapointed of you, because you decided to fight against Arasaka alone). And what intentions does Mr Blue Eyes (aka Gaunter O'Dimm) have? Does he really want to help V or he wants to use V in his shadow business?
That why i look forward to devs' answers or their vision of future DLC. I really want to see more Panam and V (Judy and V) emotions, dialogues, feellings and their adventures in Arizona where they find cure for V.
Sorry for my English, im Russian))
From the 3rd page, 42nd post and forever:ok:
You’re all breathtaking!
 
Wow, 200 Pages, 150K+ Views... great. Love this Thread, always a pleasure reading your storys, ideas and background infos about the aldecaldos, badlands and of course : panam ^^ . Keep it up and thx for the excellent entertainment here in this thread ! Have a nice Weekend !
 
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Yeah, I think so 100%. Think about it this way:
1)Which is the only character we didn't learn any personal backstory facts about? Panam.
2)which is the only character who had multiple instances where we thought she might have died (ricochet wound, mikoshi drill)? Panam
3)Only romance scene interruption? Panam
4)Only character who gets an ending? Panam

I am ready to basically write an essay expanding on these 4 points and why that is the reason I would bet a thousand dollars she will get continuation in expansions, but I will wait till after work :ROFLMAO:
phew! okay I woke up earlier than usual today so here is my essay expanding on these points! Buckle in, I'll take you for a nice, looooong... read ;)

firstly, about these two points in combination.
1)Which is the only character we didn't learn any personal backstory facts about? Panam.
4)Only character who gets an ending? Panam

Compared to the other 3 love interests, Panam as a person is shrouded in mystery. The only kind of 'fleshing out' of her character we get is through past experiences with other characters, like Mitch's cowboy story, or her talking about Scorpion's plans while riding to the gas station. She doesn't share any details about her past, her parents, how she came to be with the aldecaldos. On the other hand, we learn a TON about Kerry's history with samurai and johnny, Judy's childhood and grandparents, and River's parents and his sister. Why would they hide all of Panam's personal details?

We should consider cdpr's goals for quest progression from both a romantic and non romantic point of view.
Even though this is technically an open world, multiple ending choice based game, it's clear that cdpr has weighted each ending differently. The mood of each ending, the tarot cards, and especially the dialogue during these endings as well prods the player along down certain paths.

Regarding Panam, I think they omitted a lot of her personal details because she's part of one of the major endings and most likely content moving forward. They wanted the main focus to be on the sense of belonging and community of the aldecaldos without your romance with Panam taking center stage. Sure, you can be with her, but just in case you didn't want to, there was also effort made to ensure that there was some part of you that cared about the aldecaldos just because of who they are, and not because you're blindly following Panam. Her sidequest progression consistently focuses on the clan, not just because thats how she is, but because cdpr wanted to give us the chance to care about the clan's wellbeing on our own as well. Panam is an extremely honourable person, and always talks about helping you in return or being indebted to you:

-"you helped me with nash, you helped me with mitch. By my mind I owe you a favour"
-after night on the farm and (maybe)kiss "and remember, I'm indebted."

After all is said and done, there's multiple instances of her showing that she is a good person, and through the side quests you do with her you see that the aldecaldos are good people too. Saul thanks you multiple times for freeing him, Mitch asks you to partake in scorpion's funeral because he's grateful to you, and at the end of queen of the highway all 3 of these characters mitch/saul/panam emphasize multiple times that they will have your back if you need it. Especially as you're walking towards the bar with Panam, where she says "so you can count on the Aldecaldos, always" V says "I'll keep that in mind." So CDPR is dropping massive hints here that maybe they can help you out in the future.

For anyone who has bothered to see her quest line through to the end, by this point there is some degree of personal player investment in the clan. Again as you talk at the bar after the panzer mission, Panam will fervently ask you "stay in camp. Join us." because at this stage they already see you as part of the family, especially her. The fact that CDPR made it so we can only turn her down with the choices given in this conversation is another design tactic. When power is taken out of our hands, when we're unable to say what we really want to say, that only makes the feeling of what we want, stronger. This action, coupled with further instance of Panam saying she and the entire clan will help, that saul wasn't kidding (right before you can possibly kiss her) can be the final nudge to get players to pick her ending. And the entire very wholesome family jacket presentation scene serves as our reward for making this choice.

So they made Panam's character more of a window into the world of the clan, to show that nomads who have a terrible rep as shitty road pirates actually don't deserve what's said about them. She guides us through getting to know the clan better, with a fantastic personality that makes her an interesting character, but not too much personal detail that she will distract us from seeing what cdpr wants us to see.

Going back to the beginning of this point, we learn about the past of every other character in this game. Why is that? Because their pasts are the basis for the resolution of their character arcs, which begin and END within the main story, before meeting Hanako. After sharing his memories of playing in the band with johnny and letting johnny's words get to him, Kerry finds his own path to walk in his career. After losing his own parents as a child and going through possibly losing his nephew, River learns to make time for his family. After losing evelyn, and having her plans fail, and reminiscing with you about her grandparents during the dive at the lake, Judy realizes her place isn't in this city. But what about Panam? We haven't had this equation of [personal past issues -> relevant solution] happen yet. It's all been about the clan. When CDPR confirmed that leaving with the nomads would be an optional ending, that inevitably extends the relevance of the nomads past the end of the game. By association, this also extends panam's relevance past the end of the game. In true cliffhanger style, they would want to keep us hooked to her character, and the textbook way to do that is to reveal next to nothing about her in the base game. Aldecaldos expansion incoming :)

On the topic of extending relevance, this leads me to the other 2 points.

2)which is the only character who had multiple instances where we thought she might have died (ricochet wound, mikoshi drill)? Panam
3)Only romance scene interruption? Panam


In one of the earlier points, I mentioned that when we as players are made to feel powerless, it only strengthens our feelings of what we wanted to do but were prevented from doing. This tactic is used multiple times during Panam's quest line, with their effect lasting only a few seconds at a time, but at very impactful moments. The first instance is when she gets shot.

After getting nash, there is a lot of possible dialogue with Panam to build rapport, and get to know her a little better. This serves as a bonding period before the events that follow. This is still an early point in the quest line. Let's go with the worst case scenario, that the player doesn't really care about Panam at all, or finds her annoying. Keep in mind that during the time she gets shot,
control is taken away from us. We are jacked into her turret, but it's jammed and we can't do anything but watch while she tries to fix it, can't do anything but watch the exact moment she gets injured and we see blood spatter across the roof of the truck.

For someone who doesn't really care about Panam, or just sees her as a means to an end, at the very least, there is concern for her wellbeing only in regards to how it would affect the mission. For people like us who care about her, this can be quite shocking,
especially when we are locked out of actively helping her. I personally remember my jaw dropping when she got shot. I thought, "oh my god, I asked her to help me get hellman and she got shot trying to help me. Is she going to die from this?" This instance gives us a taste of thinking about what it would be like to lose panam. This fear of loss is an artificial way to significantly increase how much we care about her safety.

It happens again during the final mission, while inside the drill trying to get to mikoshi. You as the player are locked into position while Panam is on the other side of the room, tweaking the controls.
Again, we can only watch as the room begins to shake, and panam starts to lose her balance over and over. It is impossible to go over and help her. Note that also during this time, after everything crashes, and we are calling out to her, we still cannot go over to check on her. The silence as she doesn't respond to you drags on, creating this sense of expecting the worst.

So that's two times Panam has been put in mortal peril and gotten out of it. Why? to invest in her character further. To make us care about her and heighten our fear of losing her again. You know who else has been put in mortal peril twice? Mitch.

Mitch was held at gunpoint by the kang tao soldier. He wanted you at scorpion's funeral because he wanted you to know how grateful he was that you helped save his life. We didn't know much about mitch at this point, but this scorpion funeral quest showed us players how mitch will keep his word to a friend, no matter what is asked of him or what anyone thinks (remember that during this quest, V can comment multiple times on how weird this is, and why they're doing this. Mitch will be very determined and not let any of what V says prevent him from fulfilling his best friend's final wish.) Second, Mitch chooses to ride the panzer solo to go help carol and Cassidy, even at the risk of frying his brain. Panam's commentary on this choice makes it sound like a death sentence, and during all of our first playthroughs of this scene, how many of us thought this would be the last time we saw him?

But both Panam and Mitch survived in the end. As we know, Teddy and Bob died during the final mission. They were two NPCs who were more background than the rest. Cassidy was given his own mini shooting challenge, and Carol helped you with dakota and talking to alt. Bob got a very small kidney transplant side gig mission, and teddy got next to nothing. Compared to these NPCs dying, what if Mitch had died? he became the next most important aldecaldo to the players after panam. It would have been a lot more poetically tragic if he died. But he didn't. (thank god she didnt, but) what if PANAM had died? it would have been fitting in the cyberpunk genre, that you can't have everything you want... V got his freedom, but lost a best friend/lover. But they both had 100 lbs of plot armour each. Why? Aldecaldo expansion, that's why :) But also because CDPR wanted us to keep in mind everything the clan was going through for us. So that when we got to that
final choice of entering cyberspace or going back to our bodies, everything we've been through with the aldecaldos, plus almost losing panam not once but TWICE during her trying to help you, would sit at the back of our minds.

I think the final point I will make is one I've made before, but for the sake of not leaving anything out, this is about the
voicemail messages.

If you were just a friend to panam and chose the star ending, you won't get an ending voicemail from her at all, after everything you guys have been through. If you romanced her, you will get a voicemail of her shrouded in darkness, while she talks about the difficulties of being chief, but also how much being with you means to her. Why?

You don't get anything from Panam as a friend because the only relevant thing you'd be able to talk about is where you are now, in Arizona, which would be a spoiler. As a lover, the situation is thus: you guys are currently separated from each other by a sandstorm, which prevents progress in your arizona trip and therefore gives them an excuse not to talk about your current locations. They use this point to build on not just the physical separation, but the emotional one as Panam is facing more responsibilities that take up her time. In this best outcome scenario (star ending, panam romanced) why would she send us a bittersweet message like this? It's to set up an obstacle that she and V will have to work around together in the future. I suspect that over the course of any expansion we get, Panam and V will have to rekindle or strengthen the bond between them as part of the obstacles we face. This also opens up the opportunity to romance any newly introduced characters if there are any by choosing not to rekindle the relationship with panam at all.

In addition, making the rest of the video be about Panam sharing her feelings about V to him will shield her from having to talk about Arizona. Not long after, she gets cut off by Mitch and has to go. Very vague, but what else would capture our interest more than lack of details? :)

if you made it to the end, wow thanks for reading the whole thing!!

See you in Arizona chooms

panam3.gif
 
I apologize if I repeat myself in some things, but I thought about Star and Sun/Secret endings again. Two most positive endings for V from different points of view. I find these endings similar from one side but strongly different from the other side. What do I have in mind? And why do most of us prefer Star ending?

Similar things: V removed relic from his head. He damaged Arasaka. He became legend of NC. He is still dying, he has ~ 6 months to find cure.

Differences: in Star ending V’s legend status is formal. It doesn’t give him real power, money or something like this, because V refused to accept these things voluntarily. The only thing V has in Star ending is reputation. His name is known in NC and PROBABLY known beyond NC.

V has Panam and Family in Star ending. Because he chose love and refused glory. He chose trust to people who consider him brother. He chose girl who could love him because he forgot about his pride and helped her whenever she asked. Mutual assistance is incredibly rare quality in NC. But V and Panam have it and it was the first step to their love.

Why Star ending? Because for V and Panam paths were incredibly similar. They both were searching for their best future in NC. They both thought NC is city of their dreams. They both thought NC gave them freedom, but they both were wrong. As Johnny said “not for people like them”. Their fates were similar from the beginning and then so immediately intertwined. Why should I separate them after this?

Remember Panam’s words to V: “The feeling of realizing freedom means nothing if you’re alone”.
Even Panam with her hard temper can admit her mistakes. But she could do this with the help of V. He helped her to return on the right way. And Panam didn’t forget this. She couldn’t forget the guy who did so much for her just because it was important for her and people around her.

So, if you are alone you will never be really free, wherever you are. That’s why Secret ending is so bitter for me. You have everything and technically you are free to do everything you want but you lose your girl because you preferred glory to love in the very last moment.

That’s why the choice of love, hope and suspense is not worse than choice of glory, pride and loneliness. And that doesn’t break CP concept in any way.

Star ending is life now and here with people you love whatever it takes.
A masterful summary of both endings.
The end of the sun is a good choice if V had not met Panam. Meeting Panam dispels all his doubts, shows him what is most important. What you wrote - in sun ending V is free but lonely, he has "only" power and money left.

The feeling of realizing freedom means nothing if you’re alone:giveup: :giveup::giveup:

OMG this is the truth, this is the wisdom of the nomads. Nomads know what freedom is and know that freedom is real if you have someone to share it with :cry:

Well said, I agree with you. And I have one thing to add. In one of the open world missions you meet again with Pepe - bartender from Mama Wells place - he gives you a mission involving his wife and at the end of it you can call him back to explain everything you see and say to him something like that:

"She loves you, Pepe... Yes- she has her secrets, yes she lied to you. But she truly loves you. Do you know how much is it in this damned city?"

I've done this quest after Panam's questline so at that moment in time V realized what is important to him. Not money and power, but love and trust. Just as @Vitalurg explained here.
I also chose this dialogue option. It was an amazing feeling for V to say this to Pepe, because he completely understands its meaning, knows that true love is something special about this city.
You know what would be great after finishing the call with Pepe? I would like to be able to call Panam:
P: Hi there V, what's happening?
V: I just finished a mission and thought about you
P: What is this mission?
V: I made one guy realize that he has the greatest treasure in all of NC...
P: Oh, I guess I get what you mean...
V: You always know what I mean Pam, I miss you :*
P: I miss you too, go back to the camp :*

Agree. The game offers us some choices. I chose the star ending, which is the best for me and to make only this one and not another one.

We can say that the story of V is a life lesson. While looking for futile things like being a legend, fame, etc. he found death. When he listened to his heart, his sincerity won him everything without looking for it: Living legend of Night City, violent damage in Arasaka (Yorinobu), certainly the love of his life, a family, true values, stability etc.... Conclusion, one must always listen to one's heart.

What more can I say ? You wrote this text perfectly.
Yes one thing : What's the name of the V cocktail at the afterlife ? :beer:




Yes, I remember this quest with this choice of dialogue. He finally came to his senses.
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Always listen to your heart. I always find good advice in this thread
Happy_Panam.png

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WOW @zinganza super long post, I'm already getting to read it
 
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phew! okay I woke up earlier than usual today so here is my essay expanding on these points! Buckle in, I'll take you for a nice, looooong... read ;)

firstly, about these two points in combination.
1)Which is the only character we didn't learn any personal backstory facts about? Panam.
4)Only character who gets an ending? Panam

Compared to the other 3 love interests, Panam as a person is shrouded in mystery. The only kind of 'fleshing out' of her character we get is through past experiences with other characters, like Mitch's cowboy story, or her talking about Scorpion's plans while riding to the gas station. She doesn't share any details about her past, her parents, how she came to be with the aldecaldos. On the other hand, we learn a TON about Kerry's history with samurai and johnny, Judy's childhood and grandparents, and River's parents and his sister. Why would they hide all of Panam's personal details?

We should consider cdpr's goals for quest progression from both a romantic and non romantic point of view.
Even though this is technically an open world, multiple ending choice based game, it's clear that cdpr has weighted each ending differently. The mood of each ending, the tarot cards, and especially the dialogue during these endings as well prods the player along down certain paths.

Regarding Panam, I think they omitted a lot of her personal details because she's part of one of the major endings and most likely content moving forward. They wanted the main focus to be on the sense of belonging and community of the aldecaldos without your romance with Panam taking center stage. Sure, you can be with her, but just in case you didn't want to, there was also effort made to ensure that there was some part of you that cared about the aldecaldos just because of who they are, and not because you're blindly following Panam. Her sidequest progression consistently focuses on the clan, not just because thats how she is, but because cdpr wanted to give us the chance to care about the clan's wellbeing on our own as well. Panam is an extremely honourable person, and always talks about helping you in return or being indebted to you:

-"you helped me with nash, you helped me with mitch. By my mind I owe you a favour"
-after night on the farm and (maybe)kiss "and remember, I'm indebted."

After all is said and done, there's multiple instances of her showing that she is a good person, and through the side quests you do with her you see that the aldecaldos are good people too. Saul thanks you multiple times for freeing him, Mitch asks you to partake in scorpion's funeral because he's grateful to you, and at the end of queen of the highway all 3 of these characters mitch/saul/panam emphasize multiple times that they will have your back if you need it. Especially as you're walking towards the bar with Panam, where she says "so you can count on the Aldecaldos, always" V says "I'll keep that in mind." So CDPR is dropping massive hints here that maybe they can help you out in the future.

For anyone who has bothered to see her quest line through to the end, by this point there is some degree of personal player investment in the clan. Again as you talk at the bar after the panzer mission, Panam will fervently ask you "stay in camp. Join us." because at this stage they already see you as part of the family, especially her. The fact that CDPR made it so we can only turn her down with the choices given in this conversation is another design tactic. When power is taken out of our hands, when we're unable to say what we really want to say, that only makes the feeling of what we want, stronger. This action, coupled with further instance of Panam saying she and the entire clan will help, that saul wasn't kidding (right before you can possibly kiss her) can be the final nudge to get players to pick her ending. And the entire very wholesome family jacket presentation scene serves as our reward for making this choice.

So they made Panam's character more of a window into the world of the clan, to show that nomads who have a terrible rep as shitty road pirates actually don't deserve what's said about them. She guides us through getting to know the clan better, with a fantastic personality that makes her an interesting character, but not too much personal detail that she will distract us from seeing what cdpr wants us to see.

Going back to the beginning of this point, we learn about the past of every other character in this game. Why is that? Because their pasts are the basis for the resolution of their character arcs, which begin and END within the main story, before meeting Hanako. After sharing his memories of playing in the band with johnny and letting johnny's words get to him, Kerry finds his own path to walk in his career. After losing his own parents as a child and going through possibly losing his nephew, River learns to make time for his family. After losing evelyn, and having her plans fail, and reminiscing with you about her grandparents during the dive at the lake, Judy realizes her place isn't in this city. But what about Panam? We haven't had this equation of [personal past issues -> relevant solution] happen yet. It's all been about the clan. When CDPR confirmed that leaving with the nomads would be an optional ending, that inevitably extends the relevance of the nomads past the end of the game. By association, this also extends panam's relevance past the end of the game. In true cliffhanger style, they would want to keep us hooked to her character, and the textbook way to do that is to reveal next to nothing about her in the base game. Aldecaldos expansion incoming :)

On the topic of extending relevance, this leads me to the other 2 points.

2)which is the only character who had multiple instances where we thought she might have died (ricochet wound, mikoshi drill)? Panam
3)Only romance scene interruption? Panam


In one of the earlier points, I mentioned that when we as players are made to feel powerless, it only strengthens our feelings of what we wanted to do but were prevented from doing. This tactic is used multiple times during Panam's quest line, with their effect lasting only a few seconds at a time, but at very impactful moments. The first instance is when she gets shot.

After getting nash, there is a lot of possible dialogue with Panam to build rapport, and get to know her a little better. This serves as a bonding period before the events that follow. This is still an early point in the quest line. Let's go with the worst case scenario, that the player doesn't really care about Panam at all, or finds her annoying. Keep in mind that during the time she gets shot,
control is taken away from us. We are jacked into her turret, but it's jammed and we can't do anything but watch while she tries to fix it, can't do anything but watch the exact moment she gets injured and we see blood spatter across the roof of the truck.

For someone who doesn't really care about Panam, or just sees her as a means to an end, at the very least, there is concern for her wellbeing only in regards to how it would affect the mission. For people like us who care about her, this can be quite shocking,
especially when we are locked out of actively helping her. I personally remember my jaw dropping when she got shot. I thought, "oh my god, I asked her to help me get hellman and she got shot trying to help me. Is she going to die from this?" This instance gives us a taste of thinking about what it would be like to lose panam. This fear of loss is an artificial way to significantly increase how much we care about her safety.

It happens again during the final mission, while inside the drill trying to get to mikoshi. You as the player are locked into position while Panam is on the other side of the room, tweaking the controls.
Again, we can only watch as the room begins to shake, and panam starts to lose her balance over and over. It is impossible to go over and help her. Note that also during this time, after everything crashes, and we are calling out to her, we still cannot go over to check on her. The silence as she doesn't respond to you drags on, creating this sense of expecting the worst.

So that's two times Panam has been put in mortal peril and gotten out of it. Why? to invest in her character further. To make us care about her and heighten our fear of losing her again. You know who else has been put in mortal peril twice? Mitch.

Mitch was held at gunpoint by the kang tao soldier. He wanted you at scorpion's funeral because he wanted you to know how grateful he was that you helped save his life. We didn't know much about mitch at this point, but this scorpion funeral quest showed us players how mitch will keep his word to a friend, no matter what is asked of him or what anyone thinks (remember that during this quest, V can comment multiple times on how weird this is, and why they're doing this. Mitch will be very determined and not let any of what V says prevent him from fulfilling his best friend's final wish.) Second, Mitch chooses to ride the panzer solo to go help carol and Cassidy, even at the risk of frying his brain. Panam's commentary on this choice makes it sound like a death sentence, and during all of our first playthroughs of this scene, how many of us thought this would be the last time we saw him?

But both Panam and Mitch survived in the end. As we know, Teddy and Bob died during the final mission. They were two NPCs who were more background than the rest. Cassidy was given his own mini shooting challenge, and Carol helped you with dakota and talking to alt. Bob got a very small kidney transplant side gig mission, and teddy got next to nothing. Compared to these NPCs dying, what if Mitch had died? he became the next most important aldecaldo to the players after panam. It would have been a lot more poetically tragic if he died. But he didn't. (thank god she didnt, but) what if PANAM had died? it would have been fitting in the cyberpunk genre, that you can't have everything you want... V got his freedom, but lost a best friend/lover. But they both had 100 lbs of plot armour each. Why? Aldecaldo expansion, that's why :) But also because CDPR wanted us to keep in mind everything the clan was going through for us. So that when we got to that
final choice of entering cyberspace or going back to our bodies, everything we've been through with the aldecaldos, plus almost losing panam not once but TWICE during her trying to help you, would sit at the back of our minds.

I think the final point I will make is one I've made before, but for the sake of not leaving anything out, this is about the
voicemail messages.

If you were just a friend to panam and chose the star ending, you won't get an ending voicemail from her at all, after everything you guys have been through. If you romanced her, you will get a voicemail of her shrouded in darkness, while she talks about the difficulties of being chief, but also how much being with you means to her. Why?

You don't get anything from Panam as a friend because the only relevant thing you'd be able to talk about is where you are now, in Arizona, which would be a spoiler. As a lover, the situation is thus: you guys are currently separated from each other by a sandstorm, which prevents progress in your arizona trip and therefore gives them an excuse not to talk about your current locations. They use this point to build on not just the physical separation, but the emotional one as Panam is facing more responsibilities that take up her time. In this best outcome scenario (star ending, panam romanced) why would she send us a bittersweet message like this? It's to set up an obstacle that she and V will have to work around together in the future. I suspect that over the course of any expansion we get, Panam and V will have to rekindle or strengthen the bond between them as part of the obstacles we face. This also opens up the opportunity to romance any newly introduced characters if there are any by choosing not to rekindle the relationship with panam at all.

In addition, making the rest of the video be about Panam sharing her feelings about V to him will shield her from having to talk about Arizona. Not long after, she gets cut off by Mitch and has to go. Very vague, but what else would capture our interest more than lack of details? :)

if you made it to the end, wow thanks for reading the whole thing!!

See you in Arizona chooms

View attachment 11190313
@zinganza that was a looooong one... But you are absolutely right about everything. You've perfectly summed up and pointed out everything. There is nothing else to add :howdy:

We are still going, see you all in Arizona! I hope we can see something like that in the DLC
photomode_17022021_224717.png
 
phew! okay I woke up earlier than usual today so here is my essay expanding on these points! Buckle in, I'll take you for a nice, looooong... read ;)

firstly, about these two points in combination.
1)Which is the only character we didn't learn any personal backstory facts about? Panam.
4)Only character who gets an ending? Panam

Compared to the other 3 love interests, Panam as a person is shrouded in mystery. The only kind of 'fleshing out' of her character we get is through past experiences with other characters, like Mitch's cowboy story, or her talking about Scorpion's plans while riding to the gas station. She doesn't share any details about her past, her parents, how she came to be with the aldecaldos. On the other hand, we learn a TON about Kerry's history with samurai and johnny, Judy's childhood and grandparents, and River's parents and his sister. Why would they hide all of Panam's personal details?

We should consider cdpr's goals for quest progression from both a romantic and non romantic point of view.
Even though this is technically an open world, multiple ending choice based game, it's clear that cdpr has weighted each ending differently. The mood of each ending, the tarot cards, and especially the dialogue during these endings as well prods the player along down certain paths.

Regarding Panam, I think they omitted a lot of her personal details because she's part of one of the major endings and most likely content moving forward. They wanted the main focus to be on the sense of belonging and community of the aldecaldos without your romance with Panam taking center stage. Sure, you can be with her, but just in case you didn't want to, there was also effort made to ensure that there was some part of you that cared about the aldecaldos just because of who they are, and not because you're blindly following Panam. Her sidequest progression consistently focuses on the clan, not just because thats how she is, but because cdpr wanted to give us the chance to care about the clan's wellbeing on our own as well. Panam is an extremely honourable person, and always talks about helping you in return or being indebted to you:

-"you helped me with nash, you helped me with mitch. By my mind I owe you a favour"
-after night on the farm and (maybe)kiss "and remember, I'm indebted."

After all is said and done, there's multiple instances of her showing that she is a good person, and through the side quests you do with her you see that the aldecaldos are good people too. Saul thanks you multiple times for freeing him, Mitch asks you to partake in scorpion's funeral because he's grateful to you, and at the end of queen of the highway all 3 of these characters mitch/saul/panam emphasize multiple times that they will have your back if you need it. Especially as you're walking towards the bar with Panam, where she says "so you can count on the Aldecaldos, always" V says "I'll keep that in mind." So CDPR is dropping massive hints here that maybe they can help you out in the future.

For anyone who has bothered to see her quest line through to the end, by this point there is some degree of personal player investment in the clan. Again as you talk at the bar after the panzer mission, Panam will fervently ask you "stay in camp. Join us." because at this stage they already see you as part of the family, especially her. The fact that CDPR made it so we can only turn her down with the choices given in this conversation is another design tactic. When power is taken out of our hands, when we're unable to say what we really want to say, that only makes the feeling of what we want, stronger. This action, coupled with further instance of Panam saying she and the entire clan will help, that saul wasn't kidding (right before you can possibly kiss her) can be the final nudge to get players to pick her ending. And the entire very wholesome family jacket presentation scene serves as our reward for making this choice.

So they made Panam's character more of a window into the world of the clan, to show that nomads who have a terrible rep as shitty road pirates actually don't deserve what's said about them. She guides us through getting to know the clan better, with a fantastic personality that makes her an interesting character, but not too much personal detail that she will distract us from seeing what cdpr wants us to see.

Going back to the beginning of this point, we learn about the past of every other character in this game. Why is that? Because their pasts are the basis for the resolution of their character arcs, which begin and END within the main story, before meeting Hanako. After sharing his memories of playing in the band with johnny and letting johnny's words get to him, Kerry finds his own path to walk in his career. After losing his own parents as a child and going through possibly losing his nephew, River learns to make time for his family. After losing evelyn, and having her plans fail, and reminiscing with you about her grandparents during the dive at the lake, Judy realizes her place isn't in this city. But what about Panam? We haven't had this equation of [personal past issues -> relevant solution] happen yet. It's all been about the clan. When CDPR confirmed that leaving with the nomads would be an optional ending, that inevitably extends the relevance of the nomads past the end of the game. By association, this also extends panam's relevance past the end of the game. In true cliffhanger style, they would want to keep us hooked to her character, and the textbook way to do that is to reveal next to nothing about her in the base game. Aldecaldos expansion incoming :)

On the topic of extending relevance, this leads me to the other 2 points.

2)which is the only character who had multiple instances where we thought she might have died (ricochet wound, mikoshi drill)? Panam
3)Only romance scene interruption? Panam


In one of the earlier points, I mentioned that when we as players are made to feel powerless, it only strengthens our feelings of what we wanted to do but were prevented from doing. This tactic is used multiple times during Panam's quest line, with their effect lasting only a few seconds at a time, but at very impactful moments. The first instance is when she gets shot.

After getting nash, there is a lot of possible dialogue with Panam to build rapport, and get to know her a little better. This serves as a bonding period before the events that follow. This is still an early point in the quest line. Let's go with the worst case scenario, that the player doesn't really care about Panam at all, or finds her annoying. Keep in mind that during the time she gets shot,
control is taken away from us. We are jacked into her turret, but it's jammed and we can't do anything but watch while she tries to fix it, can't do anything but watch the exact moment she gets injured and we see blood spatter across the roof of the truck.

For someone who doesn't really care about Panam, or just sees her as a means to an end, at the very least, there is concern for her wellbeing only in regards to how it would affect the mission. For people like us who care about her, this can be quite shocking,
especially when we are locked out of actively helping her. I personally remember my jaw dropping when she got shot. I thought, "oh my god, I asked her to help me get hellman and she got shot trying to help me. Is she going to die from this?" This instance gives us a taste of thinking about what it would be like to lose panam. This fear of loss is an artificial way to significantly increase how much we care about her safety.

It happens again during the final mission, while inside the drill trying to get to mikoshi. You as the player are locked into position while Panam is on the other side of the room, tweaking the controls.
Again, we can only watch as the room begins to shake, and panam starts to lose her balance over and over. It is impossible to go over and help her. Note that also during this time, after everything crashes, and we are calling out to her, we still cannot go over to check on her. The silence as she doesn't respond to you drags on, creating this sense of expecting the worst.

So that's two times Panam has been put in mortal peril and gotten out of it. Why? to invest in her character further. To make us care about her and heighten our fear of losing her again. You know who else has been put in mortal peril twice? Mitch.

Mitch was held at gunpoint by the kang tao soldier. He wanted you at scorpion's funeral because he wanted you to know how grateful he was that you helped save his life. We didn't know much about mitch at this point, but this scorpion funeral quest showed us players how mitch will keep his word to a friend, no matter what is asked of him or what anyone thinks (remember that during this quest, V can comment multiple times on how weird this is, and why they're doing this. Mitch will be very determined and not let any of what V says prevent him from fulfilling his best friend's final wish.) Second, Mitch chooses to ride the panzer solo to go help carol and Cassidy, even at the risk of frying his brain. Panam's commentary on this choice makes it sound like a death sentence, and during all of our first playthroughs of this scene, how many of us thought this would be the last time we saw him?

But both Panam and Mitch survived in the end. As we know, Teddy and Bob died during the final mission. They were two NPCs who were more background than the rest. Cassidy was given his own mini shooting challenge, and Carol helped you with dakota and talking to alt. Bob got a very small kidney transplant side gig mission, and teddy got next to nothing. Compared to these NPCs dying, what if Mitch had died? he became the next most important aldecaldo to the players after panam. It would have been a lot more poetically tragic if he died. But he didn't. (thank god she didnt, but) what if PANAM had died? it would have been fitting in the cyberpunk genre, that you can't have everything you want... V got his freedom, but lost a best friend/lover. But they both had 100 lbs of plot armour each. Why? Aldecaldo expansion, that's why :) But also because CDPR wanted us to keep in mind everything the clan was going through for us. So that when we got to that
final choice of entering cyberspace or going back to our bodies, everything we've been through with the aldecaldos, plus almost losing panam not once but TWICE during her trying to help you, would sit at the back of our minds.

I think the final point I will make is one I've made before, but for the sake of not leaving anything out, this is about the
voicemail messages.

If you were just a friend to panam and chose the star ending, you won't get an ending voicemail from her at all, after everything you guys have been through. If you romanced her, you will get a voicemail of her shrouded in darkness, while she talks about the difficulties of being chief, but also how much being with you means to her. Why?

You don't get anything from Panam as a friend because the only relevant thing you'd be able to talk about is where you are now, in Arizona, which would be a spoiler. As a lover, the situation is thus: you guys are currently separated from each other by a sandstorm, which prevents progress in your arizona trip and therefore gives them an excuse not to talk about your current locations. They use this point to build on not just the physical separation, but the emotional one as Panam is facing more responsibilities that take up her time. In this best outcome scenario (star ending, panam romanced) why would she send us a bittersweet message like this? It's to set up an obstacle that she and V will have to work around together in the future. I suspect that over the course of any expansion we get, Panam and V will have to rekindle or strengthen the bond between them as part of the obstacles we face. This also opens up the opportunity to romance any newly introduced characters if there are any by choosing not to rekindle the relationship with panam at all.

In addition, making the rest of the video be about Panam sharing her feelings about V to him will shield her from having to talk about Arizona. Not long after, she gets cut off by Mitch and has to go. Very vague, but what else would capture our interest more than lack of details? :)

if you made it to the end, wow thanks for reading the whole thing!!

See you in Arizona chooms

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Sis, that’s truly masterpiece. :cool:
Such detailed summary in essay form about game character. Each word is about Panam. But the main thing is you could describe logical side of Star ending and Panam by separating it from emotional side. So you made both aspects of Star ending even more meaningful. We have so many direct and indirect hooks and hints for AZ expansion and this is reinforced by our affection, empathy and sympathy to Panam.
I know devs prepared something epic for Vincent and Panam. They are at the beginning of this journey.

After reading such post I ask myself sometimes: “Is Panam fictional character?” And it is so hardly to answer: “Yes, only fictional” :cry:
 
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