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Patch 1.2 — Development Update

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Kizu_KCM

Kizu_KCM

Forum regular
#781
exxxed said:
This is a misconception, it's not the physical asset that's disappearing, it's the randomizer working as intended and this being a side effect.

If you pay attention the asset itself is still there in the same spot but a different randomized version of it appears in it's place.

For example, if you have a green Thorton Galena behind you at a certain distance and you spin the camera around slowly a different Throton Galena takes it's place.

It's the same thing with the NPC, if there's a female NPC waiting to cross the street and you spin the camera around a different female NPC takes it's place.

The asset culling works but it's a few cells away from V, so not really in your face, the problem is, it becomes really apparent when the pathing breaks and there's a traffic congestion some hundred meters away from you and you spin the camera around the traffic get's itself sorted because the problem assets get culled out.

So it's really a multifaceted problem that has some degree of features that need to be either redone or adjusted based on the algorithm behind them (AI pathing, asset culling, asset randomizer).
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True and replace the npc mesh every time wastes a lot of resources :/
in this case with vehicles, with pedestrians it is worse
It occurs to me that it is not that the npc actors really disappear or are destroyed but that they have a simple patrol and that they turn on and off the visibility and collision and randomize the mesh.
 
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snakey_77

Senior user
#782
Surma. said:
This just 2 extra hours (if anyone has been following the progress)

Code: 
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I could (and I as well might) spend few extra hours and doing collision detection, perhaps making some effects from receiving "damage" when collision pushes back, figuring some logic for the police cars for not to collide...

Again the point still is, I'm not some master guru coder who's figuring math to solve cancer and I didn't spend 3 months coming up this logic.

I also stated the driving logic seems to be fine as it's portrayed by the police chase mods.

I'm not saying it's easy fix that you could do by snapping fingers, but you got hundreds of coders, working for "multiple quality improvements" and fixes for months, someone must have been put in charge of fixing the police AI.
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got to agree with this i mean is there not already a mod to improve police ai .. if that guy / girl can do it for the love of fixing this issue one would assume that developers/ coders that are getting payed should be able to fix it properly and in a timely manner !!
 
Mountain2000

Mountain2000

Forum regular
#783
Joost_van_Kempen said:
What have you been doing in those last 300 hours? I'm just curious since the only thing I got left to do after 100 hours is kill the little NPC camps.
Click to expand...

Exploring. Having fun. Not rushing. Trying different weapons, builds, play-styles. One guy to end on Normal. 2nd guy to 30 on Hard. 3rd guy now at 32 on Very Hard.

All that said apparently I play games a bit slower than most. On Valhalla I was far behind most when comparing level to hours in game. Oh well, all that matters to me in a single-player game is if I am enjoying it.
 
exxxed

exxxed

Mentor
#784
Matias_Carlos_Kali said:
True and replace the npc mesh every time wastes a lot of resources :/
in this case with vehicles, with pedestrians it is worse
It occurs to me that it is not that the npc actors really disappear or are destroyed but that they have a simple patrol and that they turn on and off the visibility and collision and randomize the mesh.
Click to expand...

Exactly, it's really apparent if you use Ray Tracing and watch what's happening behind you through the reflection, the asset randomizer and asset culling is going out of whack constantly when you're not looking.

I don't particularly understand the reason behind this algorithm.

I get having occlusion culling for statics, it's really helpful and it's the main thing behind the magic that allows the expansive open world games to exist on slower hardware, but I don't fully understand the reason as to why it works like this in Cyberpunk for the dynamic assets.

Although to be completely fair, I was observing the street around Japan Town in the late afternoon and the amount of NPCs and traffic that are really highly detailed to the point that you can see individual clothing stitching, pores on their skin, flowing hair physics and dynamic vehicle interiors with moving assets all fully realized around the main character is truly something, it's only Assassin's Creed Unity's crowd system that has a higher number of NPC's on screen at once (and we all know the AI algorithm there) while their individual detail doesn't even come close to it and the performance is atrocious compared to Cyberpunk.

There must be more to it, and I bet it's very CPU intensive.

Even though it's not completely realized and doesn't fully work as intended I can't help but admire their effort with this, it just needs further iterating upon.
 
KunoichiRider

KunoichiRider

Forum regular
#785
Staehlerner said:
People talking about Police AI and disappearing cars, i would be happy already if i could draw any of my guns again on any of my saves.
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Go to the boxing trainer/knife&blunt weapon dealer in V's Megabuilding. Then run on the fighting square. You can draw your weapons again.

OnT: I do not expect mechanics/AI/physics to be fixed. It is a 9 or 10 game on PC acc. to CDPR. So I sadly have lost all hope for this franchise.
 
experience01

experience01

Fresh user
#786
Tomorrow, the second half of March will begin, and there is no news about patch 1.2. As there is still no date for publication, everything suggests the worst.
Cd Project you don't think you have exhausted all the credit of patience from your customers? Do we have to remind you again that after we gave you our money 3 months ago, we are still waiting to have a product that at least works decently? I hope that everything goes well and that this long-awaited patch will be released in the next two weeks, hoping you won't come up with yet another excuse.
 
ElsonsoJannus

ElsonsoJannus

Forum regular
#787
experience01 said:
Tomorrow, the second half of March will begin, and there is no news about patch 1.2. As there is still no date for publication, everything suggests the worst.
Cd Project you don't think you have exhausted all the credit of patience from your customers? Do we have to remind you again that after we gave you our money 3 months ago, we are still waiting to have a product that at least works decently? I hope that everything goes well and that this long-awaited patch will be released in the next two weeks, hoping you won't come up with yet another excuse.
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They need to take as long as it takes. No more rushing because someone is impatient and has to have it _now_. That includes both players and management.
 
Uzziel91

Uzziel91

Fresh user
#788
ElsonsoJannus said:
They need to take as long as it takes. No more rushing because someone is impatient and has to have it _now_. That includes both players and management.
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You have to remember that this game is slowly being choked though, by the impending release of competitors. There are 3 types of people who still come to this forum. Fan-boys and girls, Haters and those of us who wanted our moneys worth.

For the latter of those we dont hate the game, we just dont think it was that good either. How long do you think the bulk of those people are going to stick around waiting for the game to improve/change? i come here now and then to find if any more of the game will come out and nose around the forum and wonder how people are getting along with the game and any new thoughts.

How long can this company hold on by its finger nails to a promise they likely wont be able to keep.

Just as an example if God of War Part 2 comes out this year (unlikely i know but lets just say) to many people (remember the vast majority of people who bought CP wont come here) Cyberpunk will be a poor attempt at a game and a footnote to 20/21 gaming - other than its launch ofc. They wont even glance at any DLC that comes out. Thats why people are upset, thats why people are treating this game like anthem or Andromeda, not because they demand everything now, but because theyve spend £65 on something that honestly should have been half that or less.
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Alt-Mikoshi said:
You are correct. People see code as isolated parts that can work independently of each other (ideally, that would be a goal into itself, but rarely practical in some cases). Main issue people seem to not understand is that you can fix X part of the code but that would bring another wave of issues based on the logic change of the first part; it is like a watch, you cannot arbitrarily edit torque of one rotor and change the teeth of a gear without altering the rest of the mechanism. You have to be sure the parts interact with harmony or at least close to it, so it works as intended.

Simplistic approaches like that creates code and internal logic that eventually becomes unsustainable or impossible to fix/patch.
Click to expand...
I wrote about this in another thread a while ago but got flamed for suggesting missing content .lol. . I suggested it was entirely possible that a large bulk of the 'bugs' we are seeing with the AI etc could actually be missing logic from parts of the game that were carved up or out. When you start to strip out pieces of the game it impacts all the surrounding parts as well. Now im no coder or dev but ive played MMO's for long enough to know what the smallest of changes can do to the 'balance' of a game, those unintended issues are sorted but that births 20 more unintended bugs, if you remove enough eventually it stops working.
 
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L

loppy88

Senior user
#789
experience01 said:
Tomorrow, the second half of March will begin, and there is no news about patch 1.2. As there is still no date for publication, everything suggests the worst.
Cd Project you don't think you have exhausted all the credit of patience from your customers? Do we have to remind you again that after we gave you our money 3 months ago, we are still waiting to have a product that at least works decently? I hope that everything goes well and that this long-awaited patch will be released in the next two weeks, hoping you won't come up with yet another excuse.
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Jeez, don't you have other things to do other then play exact game? Take a step back, breathe and chill
 
R

rez27772

Senior user
#790
ElsonsoJannus said:
They need to take as long as it takes. No more rushing because someone is impatient and has to have it _now_. That includes both players and management.
Click to expand...

Uhuh... Except that attitude gives them a green light to keep stretching it out indefinitely, and then maybe, eventually, just turning around and saying "Meh, nah, can't fix it guys and gals." A lot of people only kept it on the promise of it being fixed, fail to and they'll never be believed again.

And no... downgrading anything, as some have suggested, isn't "fixing" it. It's making it even less like the game that was promised.
 
experience01

experience01

Fresh user
#791
loppy88 said:
Jeez, don't you have other things to do other then play exact game? Take a step back, breathe and chill
Click to expand...

I have so many games to play and so many things to do in life, as I am a 50 year old man. I just don't understand why game makers always have to be justified. Have you ever bought a DVD where half a film has a ruined image ? or a cd, where some songs feel bad? A pair of shoes with the soles not glued well? I would like to know just why every time we buy a video game, it must not work smoothly, and we can't even complain. it is the fault of all these justifications, that the game producers, release games in alpha version, rather than finished. For the PC it can also be fine, but does it seem right to you that after 3 months from its release, ps4 players cannot take advantage of a regularly purchased product?
That's all, mine is just a consideration, I'm relaxed and calm.
 
L

loppy88

Senior user
#792
experience01 said:
I have so many games to play and so many things to do in life, as I am a 50 year old man. I just don't understand why game makers always have to be justified. Have you ever bought a DVD where half a film has a ruined image ? or a cd, where some songs feel bad? A pair of shoes with the soles not glued well? I would like to know just why every time we buy a video game, it must not work smoothly, and we can't even complain. it is the fault of all these justifications, that the game producers, release games in alpha version, rather than finished. For the PC it can also be fine, but does it seem right to you that after 3 months from its release, ps4 players cannot take advantage of a regularly purchased product?
That's all, mine is just a consideration, I'm relaxed and calm.
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I know, man, but the thing is that while they made their bed with releasing the game the way they did, it is you who decides if you want to sit on these forums and fill yourself with negative energy and vibes, and let me tell you, in this shitty corona situation, that's the last thing you want. Just looking out for you, didn't mean any ill intent.
 
experience01

experience01

Fresh user
#793
loppy88 said:
I know, man, but the thing is that while they made their bed with releasing the game the way they did, it is you who decides if you want to sit on these forums and fill yourself with negative energy and vibes, and let me tell you, in this shitty corona situation, that's the last thing you want. Just looking out for you, didn't mean any ill intent.
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No my friend, I absolutely do not want to leave negative energy, maybe I used harsh words in the first post, but my intent is to encourage the team because I know they have talent, it is right to give them time to work, as is right aside of us users to encourage them to do a good job in acceptable times.
 
Mountain2000

Mountain2000

Forum regular
#794
experience01 said:
Have you ever bought a DVD where half a film has a ruined image ? or a cd, where some songs feel bad? A pair of shoes with the soles not glued well? I would like to know just why every time we buy a video game, it must not work smoothly, and we can't even complain. it is the fault of all these justifications, that the game producers, release games in alpha version, rather than finished. For the PC it can also be fine, but does it seem right to you that after 3 months from its release, ps4 players cannot take advantage of a regularly purchased product?
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You have many question, Mr. Sparkle.
 
G

GrimReaper801

Forum veteran
#796
rez27772 said:
Uhuh... Except that attitude gives them a green light to keep stretching it out indefinitely, and then maybe, eventually, just turning around and saying "Meh, nah, can't fix it guys and gals." A lot of people only kept it on the promise of it being fixed, fail to and they'll never be believed again.

And no... downgrading anything, as some have suggested, isn't "fixing" it. It's making it even less like the game that was promised.
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Right, except that they got the mother of all incentives to fix the game ASAP regardless of anyone's attitude;

Money.

The game isn't selling at all on Playstation right now. Which holds the bigger share of the console market.

Furthermore, their own government is closely watching and monitoring the situation and could potentially impose a 10% fine on their total revenue from last year. Which includes CP2077 sales.

No one is greenlighting any behavior from them because no one can greenlight any behavior from them. You seem to be operating under the impression that we hold any power or say in how fast CDPR fixes the game. We don't. They have our money already. The only thing we hold any power over is buying, or not, their next game and I'm certain they realize that how they treat CP2077 going forward will heavily influence this.

Not to mention that taking all the time necessary to get it right this time is the only logical thing to do at this point.
 
Surma.

Surma.

Forum regular
#798
Mountain2000 said:
Whatever CDPR decides to include in the patch will be a step forward.
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I Agree. This game is only going to get better every time as we get treated with more fine tuning and content updates.

I love the game and I've had over 100 hours by now. I may come out to be looking like another hater, but I'm just maybe more optimistic about future changes than some of you :)

I also never remember having a single crash in game, and the bugs are severely falsely shown in those bug compilations, the game runs fluidly 99.999999% of the time (if you exclude the missing cop mechanic and disappearing assets logic and some civilian AI strangeness), then again I run pretty powerful PC... and I might have seen like 10 T-poses in entire play through.
 
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taiwanluthiers

taiwanluthiers

Forum regular
#799
Mountain2000 said:
I'm sure looking forward to Patch 1.2, when it's ready. Whatever CDPR decides to include in the patch will be a step forward.

I'm happy to say I played 411 hours crash free, and with no game breaking bugs. I think I saw two visual glitches. I wish your experience was as awesome as mine!
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I had more crashes in the witcher 3. Often without warning. Using latest version with dlc too
 
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