Current game is far too easy and is catered entirely towards the lowest common denominator power fantasy, which I hate.
You can fix a lot of it with mods. I am curious as to specific ideas as to How people would make it more difficult, enemy wise, as in what abilities you would like them to have and whatnot.
well sadly I had fixed those issues with mods to make the game challenge and fair
And I will address some issues that make the game too easy and how the mods fix it
TOO MANY HEALTH ITEM DROPS, TOO LESS STRATEGIC USE OF HEALING
even in harder difficulties, I have more than 50+ healing items in spare even though I spamming use them lavishly
as well as ammo I never have to craft or buy them since the loot gives it too much
and the game allows players to spam healing to full health even the common healing can restore HP to full health in no time making the difference between common and rarer variants become only just a little inconvenient in usage
SO HOW THE MODS FIXED THAT ISSUE
- reduce the healing drop chances significantly so players would stand on tippy toes sometimes when entering a fight unprepared
and players have to visit drugstores more often and crafting become a necessity as well to get ready before a fight
-add cooldown of using health items
now there're a lot of differences between 40%HP common health items and 80%HP rare health variants
players can't just spam their way to full health since there's a cooldown before they can use health items again
So the better variants of a drug become mandatory in a harder fight to replenish lost health quickly or else they have to be a sitting duck for too long waiting to heal
Which put players on the edge and need to learn to position themself in a combat area since they can't become a bullet sponge by spamming health kits in front of guns anymore
HARDER ENEMIES ARE JUST THE SAME JUST BECOME BULLET SPONGES
before the mods, enemies don't have too much of a challenge but only have bigger a health bar and do more damage and shoot the butt-load of ammo to the same enemy for a dozen minutes that's hard alright, but is it fun? , is it fair?
that's another thing
not just that enemies just not having too many varieties of attacking that players have to deal with
SO HOW THE MODS FIXED THAT ISSUE
-harder enemy have quite more HP than an easier one, but not as too much to become a bullet sponge, and what is the modder to compensate for that?
HEALING, enemies often use healing items to heal themself up to fight the players again
with not too much HP but they can heal themself, players that know how to do things would kill them quickly one by one
So the strategy to deal with a group of harder enemies is to focusing kill since the injured opponent would just back off and heal up(not all the time mod working tho sometimes they just heal themself in front of the gun barrel to fight again),
the harder enemy more times they can heal themself
CALLING FOR BACK UP, even the enemies become kinda weaker but they can compensate for that with numbers
when the stealth fails a firefight the whole horde of the enemy becomes harder as they will call for back up to join the fight
So the player needs to be quick and kill the one who made a call before the reinforcement picks up the HOLOCALL
NETRUNNING, more enemies Netrunner who fight against the players and more enhanced abilities for them to use
now everything players could throw at them, they have the same thing to throw back at us
thank the god of the nexus at least they have really long uploading hack time so if the player's good enough they can kill them before it completes to cancel the hacks
but easier said than done since they always hide behind the enemy line
not to talk about they can heal up if they do not die yet
MORE DRONE AND DROID AND ENEMIES ON THE CENTAURS (damn I wish players could wear it too), your typical hack and weapons may be effective on human enemies but these mech enemies have different weaknesses so players have to adapt and change tactics whenever they appear on the fight
just these little tweaking not just make the game challenge and fair
also, it gives combat more depth to it
of course, they are easier to kill due to lower HP and dealing less damage but if fail to do it quickly the firefight would escalate the heat real quick
they are still capable of killing players as quick as players kill them
the players have to plan and choose which priority, kill the annoying netrunner who cast debuff and blindness along with other cyber magic they have
or the enemies that are hard to kill who trying to heal up, or the ones that calling for backup on the phone that maybe the chance of more netrunner and more tougher enemies to join the fight
but to the Bosses, it's quite tricky since the issue can't be done on them alone but to redesign the whole fight or else just the same old bullet sponges and unfair damage output
or just lower them and make them be able to heal up more quicker and more often but the issue is still not so different
what are you still so confused about? there is no speculation go look at the interviews and see how they descride what their game is. the information is available to all.
look the FARCRY 3 and 4 point is to tell a story and yet it's having multiple opinions on that
the game can vary from very easy to very hard
it's the execution of the points
to what the media could be
Videogame are interactive media
they have a storytelling side as well as a gameplay side
A good storytelling game can have good gameplay vise to complement its further
and 2077 in current state is ludonarrative dissonance in many ways
the many assets in the game are left over with a lot of frameworks that the modder can easily manipulate further
if they are not meant to be DEV team would not put it there in the first place and left it almost usable
many people are pointing out that the story is not on par with gameplay to complement it so it could be fixed
2077 is not the whole storytelling only media
you can just compare it to the real one
pick any one of the telltale games, the whole point of those games is truly story telling game
it is not meant to be hard or challenging. nothing in this game is meant to be hard or challenging. just like the witcher series is not hard or challenging.
this is not the table top game.
this is not a souls like.
this is not a boss battle game.
many RPG's are like this. not hard to understand really.
Agreed, there are many games like that
Sure, if you come from a soul game which are designed to be challenging, and jump into Cyberpunk, it would be far too easy even in very hard... But it would be the same with Skyrim, Fallout, KCD, ME or DOS2 to only quote few which come in my mind. I currently play Tales of Arize and it is challenging (for me) even in normal (too much for my tastes... I even considered at some point, like against Bosses, switching to story mode because I don't have fun...)
Agreed, there are many games like that
Sure, if you come from a soul game which are designed to be challenging, and jump into Cyberpunk, it would be far too easy even in very hard... But it would be the same with Skyrim, Fallout, KCD, ME or DOS2 to only quote few which come in my mind. I currently play Tales of Arize and it is challenging (for me) even in normal (too much for my tastes... I even considered at some point, like against Bosses, switching to story mode because I don't have fun...)
i have so many games in the tales series ranging from game cube (tales of symphonia) to PSX/2. even star ocean follows the same formula. once you have grinded levels past what the game is able to catch up to, you just become god. also experienced this in tales of berseria (by the way loved the female protag. shes a badass).
im not sure about arise. ill eventually scoop it being a tales fan. games like that i absolutely demolish.
I like games with very custom difficlty settings just because i can make it as hard as i like. Mods kinda fixes this in cp2077 but take a game like pathfinder where you can turn on/off pretty much anything when it comes too difficulty. 1 save unfair is dam near impossible unless you have a very deep understanding off ruleset and cheat the system.
I like games with very custom difficlty settings just because i can make it as hard as i like. Mods kinda fixes this in cp2077 but take a game like pathfinder where you can turn on/off pretty much anything when it comes too difficulty. 1 save unfair is dam near impossible unless you have a very deep understanding off ruleset and cheat the system.
one of the devs of baldur's gate 3 admitted to cheating because the dice system they had in was too brutal. it was a point that people heavily complained about and they changed it to be more appealing.
one of the devs of baldur's gate 3 admitted to cheating because the dice system they had in was too brutal. it was a point that people heavily complained about and they changed it to be more appealing.
I like games with very custom difficlty settings just because i can make it as hard as i like. Mods kinda fixes this in cp2077 but take a game like pathfinder where you can turn on/off pretty much anything when it comes too difficulty. 1 save unfair is dam near impossible unless you have a very deep understanding off ruleset and cheat the system.
Luckily more and more games are coming out with these types of customizable difficulties.
Throw some presets in and allow people to customize their own if those presets are unsatisfying. It's the best possible answer. It's generally just a set of variables after all.
and games made with customizable difficulty from the start are fine. im not going to expected that of games that dont. in the case of baldur's gate 3, it was tuned to high and got a rework. nothing else about that changed.
the only instance i saw of a game that had strict difficulty and then got changed to be customizable was State of Decay 2. benefit for all no doubt but i wouldnt complain if it didnt have it. people complaining about nightmare and lethal being to hard still.
So why do you seem so adverse to people asking for more difficulty here? Or even for future games like I am?
I'm really having a hard time understanding your motivation to keep coming back here and tell people how this is a storytelling game and they should shut up about it's difficulty. I'm genuinely wondering.
Skyrim's main goal is definitely not it's story, should people stop criticizing it's poor to average writing?
So why do you seem so adverse to people asking for more difficulty here? Or even for future games like I am?
I'm really having a hard time understanding your motivation to keep coming back here and tell people how this is a storytelling game and they should shut up about it's difficulty. I'm genuinely wondering.
Skyrim's main goal is definitely not it's story, should people stop criticizing it's poor to average writing?
because the complaint can be seen on both sides for various games. people complained about seikiro being too hard and needing easier difficulty. devs said no. i didnt see a problem with that. did you?
people complained that SoD2 is too easy then they added nightmare and lethal. people complained it was too hard then they added an even easier difficulty before adding customizable sliders. and now people are STILL complaining its too hard on nightmare and lethal.
its ok for games to be hard from the start or be easy. people should know what they want from the games they buy people should find out what the games they are buying are offering before they buy them not try to turn games into something they arent.
cyberpunk is a story telling game. thats what i expected and thats what i got. if i wanted a hard game i could choose from the many other that are on offer which i do as i own quite alot of souls and rogue lite games.
soon people will be complaining that games are just too similar (wait that already happened).
because the complaint can be seen on both sides for various games. people complained about seikiro being too hard and needing easier difficulty. devs said no. i didnt see a problem with that. did you?
No, I didn't, but that's an entirely different situation. Sekiro is a FromSoftware game. They created an entire genre which main selling point is difficulty. The first thing that'll come to any gamer's mind if you say "FromSoftware" is either "who's that?" or "very hard games". It's their entire point.
It'd be like asking CDPR to lower the amount of story telling in CP2077. You are right that CP2077's main point is storytelling and that shouldn't be changed as it would change the very nature of the game but it doesn't mean everything else can be ignored.
I ask you again, since Skyrim's main goal is definitely to be a sandbox game for you to live out your Elder Scrolls fantasy, should people stop criticizing it's writing? Should Bethesda simply tell those of us asking for better writing so shove it because that's not the point of their games?
people complained that SoD2 is too easy then they added nightmare and lethal. people complained it was too hard then they added an even easier difficulty before adding customizable sliders. and now people are STILL complaining its too hard on nightmare and lethal.
its ok for games to be hard from the start or be easy. people should know what they want from the games they buy not try to turn games into something they arent.
cyberpunk is a story telling game. thats what i expected and thats what i got. if i wanted a hard game i could choose from the many other that are on offer which i do as i own quite alot of souls and rogue lite games.
This genuinely sounds like "I got everything I wanted out of the game, so fug everyone else" but I'll assume I'm misinterpreting. You seem to assume that people asking for more difficulty didn't come in knowing what to expect of the game while you did.
I can assure you that you're wrong. At least, as far as I'm concerned and no doubt many others. I've been a fan of CDPR since the first Witcher game's release. I know exactly what I want out of them and that is storytelling first. First and always. The day they stop being storytellers first is the day I stop being a fan. Why should the fact I'm here for storytelling first and foremost stop me from asking them to make everything else around that storytelling better? This isn't a VN, it's a video game with multiple facets. Improving a facet doesn't lower the value of the others or change the game into something else. It only improves the sum of it all.
EDIT: You added this bit while I was writing:
games should start with customizable difficulty if they are going to have it not start without it and add it later.
I ask you again, since Skyrim's main goal is definitely to be a sandbox game for you to live out your Elder Scrolls fantasy, should people stop criticizing it's writing? Should Bethesda simply tell those of us asking for better writing so shove it because that's not the point of their games?
people can criticize anything they want ultimately the final decision rests with the developers. skyrim is not known for its storytelling and that hasnt changed since 2011. if bethesda had any interest in writing better stories we would have seen it. they have no interest.
This genuinely sounds like "I got everything I wanted out of the game, so fug everyone else" but I'll assume I'm misinterpreting. You seem to assume that people asking for more difficulty didn't come in knowing what to expect of the game while you did.
yes you are misunderstanding me a bit here. i bought the game based on what they were offering not based on any comparison. i wasnt expecting the game to be hard or easy i was expecting a story telling game as was advertised.
and yes i might be assuming but if they did know then why buy it knowing the game is casual in difficulty?
people can criticize anything they want ultimately the final decision rests with the developers. skyrim is not known for its storytelling and that hasnt changed since 2011. if bethesda had any interest in writing better stories we would have seen it. they have no interest.
You are 100% correct, it will always be up to the developers to decide. That's not the question though. Should people stop criticizing Skyrim's (or any Beth game since Oblivion, with the exception of Shivering Isle) writing?
Should consumers just stop telling developers what they want because it's ultimately up to the devs to decide, is that what you're advocating for? If not, how can developers know what their customers want/areas to improve if customers don't tell them?
yes you are misunderstanding me a bit here. i bought the game based on what they were offering not based on any comparison. i wasnt expecting the game to be hard or easy i was expecting a story telling game as was advertised.
and yes i might be assuming but if they did know then why buy it knowing the game is casual in difficulty?
Like I said, I've been a fan of CDPR for a very long time. I knew not to expect a difficult game. Like you, I expected a story driven game and I got just that. A story I enjoyed a lot. I enjoyed the game a lot period in fact. Why does that mean I should shut up about what I think is one of the game's weaker aspects?
How is having more difficulty options going to confuse people about what they're getting?
Your argument falls flat here. The game is and would remain a story telling game even if they added an "Uber-souls-like-you'll-cry-for-your-mommy" difficulty to the game. Just don't play on that difficulty?
I don't understand why you seem to be arguing that making it harder for those who want harder is going to somehow change the very nature of the game.
Sure? Again, how does having more difficulty options, or just making the very hard difficulty... very hard, change anything about the review? The content of the game doesn't change one bit. It's only more punishing for those who want it. Those who don't, don't have to use that difficulty.
You are 100% correct, it will always be up to the developers to decide. That's not the question though. Should people stop criticizing Skyrim's (or any Beth game since Oblivion, with the exception of Shivering Isle) writing?
Should consumers just stop telling developers what they want because it's ultimately up to the devs to decide, is that what you're advocating for? If not, how can developers know what their customers want/areas to improve if customers don't tell them?
no one here is telling anyone to stop giving feedback. there are just some of us who disagree with "Make the game harder" especially when one is comparing a character that is used in an anime that can portray characters any way it pleases, and used in a video game that is bound by strict mechanics.
Like I said, I've been a fan of CDPR for a very long time. I knew not to expect a difficult game. Like you, I expected a story driven game and I got just that. A story I enjoyed a lot. I enjoyed the game a lot period in fact. Why does that mean I should shut up about what I think is one of the game's weaker aspects?
Your argument falls flat here. The game is and would remain a story telling game even if they added an "Uber-souls-like-you'll-cry-for-your-mommy" difficulty to the game. Just don't play on that difficulty?
I don't understand why you seem to be arguing that making it harder for those who want harder is going to somehow change the very nature of the game.
this has happened so many times. anytime devs decide to "Balance" things in a "Single Player" game, it is met with alot of hate. people are already saying in this thread they do not like stat boost difficulty style (ohko and bullet sponge) and i agree. ive also thrown in my ideas for actually making it hard with what we have without really changing anything major by "Reducing the skill points in the higher difficulty". the skill points are literally the only thing enabling god mode but it is by design.
i dont understand this. i said they should be there at the start if its going to have it. why? so we dont get this complaint of "the game is too easy" as if they didnt know the difficulty of the game is casual.
Speaking of that, the last game that I played which have a customizable difficulty was The Guardener Of The Galaxy
There is three preset (easy/normal/hard) and a "custom" one. Even the presets can be customized. So for players who think that the "hard preset" is not hard enough, still can customize it to make it even harder by ajusting bunch of options (damage received, damage dealed, reload time of "abilities", health, shield regen,...).
I imagine the same system could work on Cyberpunk too fairly easily (since it's only matter of "numbers/stats"). So even in very hard, you could be able to make the game even harder, by increasing the cool down of cyberwares, increasing enemies damages/health, decreasing health items effectiveness,... Or even reduce a little the very hard mode, but keeping it harder than hard.
adam's fight is just there to move the story along no other purpose. again this boss fight is a plot device.
it is not meant to be hard or challenging. nothing in this game is meant to be hard or challenging. just like the witcher series is not hard or challenging.
this is not the table top game.
this is not a souls like.
this is not a boss battle game.
many RPG's are like this. not hard to understand really.
And as a result, it damages the perception of Adam and makes the ending feel poor in execution. You slap around this supposed machine monster like he's a child, weaker than the enemies you literally faced two seconds ago, and everybody's reaction is "that's it?" Not "wow, that was so cool and really helped amplify my sense of avenging Johnny." It's "that guy sucked, Johnny died to this wimp?"
In fact, let me elaborate further. Challenge and a finely tuned difficulty curve can be, and often are, essential tools to storytelling in a video game. Adam Smasher's boss fight even on Very Hard is comically easy. You can just stand still and stagger him repeatedly with various forms of attacks, he dies in a handful of hits too. At this point, why is Adam Smasher even given a boss fight? He may as well have died in a cutscene for all the good his inclusion gave players. Even removing him from the game entirely wouldn't have made any impact on the experience either.
no one here is telling anyone to stop giving feedback. there are just some of us who disagree with "Make the game harder" especially when one is comparing a character that is used in an anime that can portray characters any way it pleases, and used in a video game that is bound by strict mechanics.
Mechanics which can be drastically altered if so desired. Which leads us back to "the developers will decide". Something we both agree on. But if no one speaks up, then they don't have all the information they might want/need in order to make their decision.
Then I invite you to think about how you might be coming across when you come in this thread which entire point is to ask for CDPR to make the game more difficult.
When you come in to say "This ain't Dark Souls" "this isn't the point" "this is a story telling game, not a hard game" "people shouldn't expect that of it". I genuinely think you're essentially coming across as trying to shut down discussion. We all know this isn't Dark Soul. Everyone knows the game isn't the anime and making Smasher as terrifying in the game as he is in the anime is most likely not happening but comparisons were unavoidable. It's just how humans are wired. There is no doubt in my head that CDPR expected this. Smasher and Oda were heavily criticized before the anime.
As @Shotgunky accurately pointed out, Smasher is described as an absolutely terrifying killing machine. He fails as a plot device because he doesn't even come close to being what he is said and meant to be.
this has happened so many times. anytime devs decide to "Balance" things in a "Single Player" game, it is met with alot of hate. people are already saying in this thread they do not like stat boost difficulty style (ohko and bullet sponge) and i agree. ive also thrown in my ideas for actually making it hard with what we have without really changing anything major by "Reducing the skill points in the higher difficulty". the skill points are literally the only thing enabling god mode but it is by design.
And your opinion is welcome. Even if you think the current difficulty level is perfectly fine. If CDPR are to gather feedback and make the best possible decision they need feedback from both sides and everything in between.
I disagree with your assessment of why the game is as easy as it is too. I believe it's a combination of a few things, not just skill point. Case in point there are actually mods which achieve better balance without touching skill points. Something as simple as adding a cooldown on healing items drastically changes thing. There are many ways to go about this.
I also don't subscribe to the idea that it's by design. I think CDPR just isn't really good at this part. They've gotten better over the years and it's why people should keep on telling them what they think they're doing wrong. From that point they'll decide.
i dont understand this. i said they should be there at the start if its going to have it. why? so we dont get this complaint of "the game is too easy" as if they didnt know the difficulty of the game is casual.
But that doesn't make much sense. How is having custom difficulty added later going to confuse people about what the game is offering? If anything, it's only offering them more without even touching what is already there.
Speaking of that, the last game that I played which have a customizable difficulty was The Guardener Of The Galaxy
There is three preset (easy/normal/hard) and a "custom" one. Even the presets can be customized. So for players who think that the "hard preset" is not hard enough, still can customize it to make it even harder by ajusting bunch of options (damage received, damage dealed, reload time of "abilities", health, shield regen,...). View attachment 11320412View attachment 11320415
I imagine the same system could work on Cyberpunk too fairly easily (since it's only matter of "numbers/stats"). So even in very hard, you could be able to make the game even harder, by increasing the cool down of cyberwares, increasing enemies damages/health, decreasing health items effectiveness,... Or even reduce a little the very hard mode, but keeping it harder than hard.
Exactly, it really wouldn't be hard. It's already been done to various degrees through mods. Instead of an .ini file with modifiable values, it would be in-game. That's all there is to it.
look the FARCRY 3 and 4 point is to tell a story and yet it's having multiple opinions on that
the game can vary from very easy to very hard
it's the execution of the points
to what the media could be
Videogame are interactive media
they have a storytelling side as well as a gameplay side
A good storytelling game can have good gameplay vise to complement its further
and 2077 in current state is ludonarrative dissonance in many ways
the many assets in the game are left over with a lot of frameworks that the modder can easily manipulate further
if they are not meant to be DEV team would not put it there in the first place and left it almost usable
many people are pointing out that the story is not on par with gameplay to complement it so it could be fixed
2077 is not the whole storytelling only media
you can just compare it to the real one
pick any one of the telltale games, the whole point of those games is truly story telling game
This is flawed logic. You can do whatever you want to tell story. It's not like there's only one way to tell it, focus on story in video games. Witcher 3 was praised because game was able to tell good story in open world.
What about Far Cry 3 "bosses"? They were glorified QTE.
Tbh Cyberpunk is focused also on gameplay, to the point, when it's almost some kind of sandbox gameplay-combat game, who is even able to comepete with it? Bethesda? Don't think so. Rockstar?
Problem with bosses is ofc: anime and how it portrayed for example Smasher. Anime is different than game, because game is designed to be beaten by players, same with all enemies.
I could ignore whole debate by saying: V >>>>>> David Martinez.
This is flawed logic. You can do whatever you want to tell story. It's not like there's only one way to tell it, focus on story in video games. Witcher 3 was praised because game was able to tell good story in open world.
What about Far Cry 3 "bosses"? They were glorified QTE.
Tbh Cyberpunk is focused also on gameplay, to the point, when it's almost some kind of sandbox gameplay-combat game, who is even able to comepete with it? Bethesda? Don't think so. Rockstar?
Problem with bosses is ofc: anime and how it portrayed for example Smasher. Anime is different than game, because game is designed to be beaten by players, same with all enemies.
I could ignore whole debate by saying: V >>>>>> David Martinez.
And? Do Far Cry's ( Far Cry 3 I'm speaking about)QTE bosses complement story?
Games have difficulty levels, if you think something is too easy, you try to play not on easy, but on normal. Also you can make cringe yt video about how easy is to beat some boss (which for some reason is like beginning of this discussion). Game is separate entity and it will tell story different way than anime.
That's simple, yet hard to grasp for some invdividuals. Play Sekiro of some Dark Souls if you want to waste 3 hours of your life to learn how to avoid scripted moves of some character, because there's no way you can beat some of them on first try. But when you will waste 3 hours of your time to learn it oh hey some boss have 2nd or 3rd phase haha, try again. What kind of fun gameplay it is and why people want something similar in games designed to chill out with rich lore, and actual story is beyond my understanding. Plus obviously most of developers want as many players as possible to finish their games.
Like I said: V >>>>>> David, in anime and game, main protagonists are different people. Wow...
It really reminds me discussion about how Witcher 3 combat was "bad" when it was almost perfect for this kind of game.
