Prison/Arrested System

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Prison/Arrested System

So if CDPR makes something like this, what kind of prison/arrested structure do you think they would make?

Granted 60/70% of the time your going to get your ass killed or shot, it still would be interesting to see this.
 
So if CDPR makes something like this, what kind of prison/arrested structure do you think they would make?

Granted 60/70% of the time your going to get your ass killed or shot, it still would be interesting to see this.

It could be a waiting system with random events popping up. If you arrested and imprisoned, you get to explore the prison and talk to other inmates, wait in your cell, participate in fights that can get you out sooner or just plain avoid everything and fast forward. Going in jail the first time would give you a perk title (Criminal), and for every fight you win, you sort of have a leveling system which changes your title and its perk (for example, winning 5 fights gives you "Brawler", winning 10 gives you "Hardcore" and you get 2% resistance to physical attacks).

Based on progression in the game, you get sent into different prisons that get more difficult, with max security and tougher inmates. Prisons can consist of the cell block (4 stories of 18 cells each floor), the halls between facilities, the yard (training and conversation with inmates), a theater room for the brawling and the exit.

If we want to take this to the next level, you can also hire lawyers as a paid service, and when you go to jail, your equipment is not confiscated (otherwise you need to pay a sum to get it back), or if there is a "fame" status you get to retain it. Lawyers also decrease jail time, with the most expensive one nullifying jail time regardless of the crime you committed.

Lastly, you can escape jail with the following ways:
-The Rockerboy/Solo way: Dig a tunnel and cause a riot to create a diversion while you escape.
-The Solo way: Dig a tunnel and fight your way out of the outer ring.
-The Nomad/Fixer way: Ask support that will break the yard prison wall with a rocket launcher/explosives and help you out.
-The Corporate way: Ask a stealth gyro to pick you up from the yard.
-The Netrunner way: Attempt to use the medical terminal to hack the entrance into the security room, then proceed to open the hall cell doors from there.
-The Media way: Call a colleague to create artificial dirt on a fake suspect that will prove your innocence and get you out.
-The Techie way: Use various prison materials to create a "burner" that can cut the screws used in hall doors. Then, cause a blackout in the prison by tampering with the hallway fusebox. You have 90 seconds to escape before the prison auxiliary generators go online.
-The Med-techie way: Wait.
 
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It could be a waiting system with random events popping up. If you arrested and imprisoned, you get to explore the prison and talk to other inmates, wait in your cell, participate in fights that can get you out sooner or just plain avoid everything and fast forward. Going in jail the first time would give you a perk title (Criminal), and for every fight you win, you sort of have a leveling system which changes your title and its perk (for example, winning 5 fights gives you "Brawler", winning 10 gives you "Hardcore" and you get 2% resistance to physical attacks).

Based on progression in the game, you get sent into different prisons that get more difficult, with max security and tougher inmates. Prisons can consist of the cell block (4 stories of 18 cells each floor), the halls between facilities, the yard (training and conversation with inmates), a theater room for the brawling and the exit.

If we want to take this to the next level, you can also hire lawyers as a paid service, and when you go to jail, your equipment is not confiscated (otherwise you need to pay a sum to get it back), or if there is a "fame" status you get to retain it. Lawyers also decrease jail time, with the most expensive one nullifying jail time regardless of the crime you committed.

Lastly, you can escape jail with the following ways:
-The Rockerboy/Solo way: Dig a tunnel and cause a riot to create a diversion while you escape.
-The Solo way: Dig a tunnel and fight your way out of the outer ring.
-The Nomad/Fixer way: Ask support that will break the yard prison wall with a rocket launcher/explosives and help you out.
-The Corporate way: Ask a stealth gyro to pick you up from the yard.
-The Netrunner way: Attempt to use the medical terminal to hack the entrance into the security room, then proceed to open the hall cell doors from there.
-The Media way: Call a colleague to create artificial dirt on a fake suspect that will prove your innocence and get you out.
-The Techie way: Use various prison materials to create a "burner" that can cut the screws used in hall doors. Then, cause a blackout in the prison by tampering with the hallway fusebox. You have 90 seconds to escape before the prison auxiliary generators go online.
-The Med-techie way: Wait.

Very good as usual Wert.
 
If they have one it should be something meaningful to the player otherwise why bother.

"You are arrested, tried, and convinced of murder."
#1 Maybe a couple minutes later the player is back to doing whatever. --- This is pointless.
#2 You break out of jail/prison, this maybe takes 5 minutes, probably less. --- This is pointless, and may encourage illegal actions as breaking out is "fun".
#3 Maybe a short cut-scene of the player going thru the legal process and twiddling their thumbs in jail. --- Again, pointless.

I've always favored a rather drastic option.
You get convicted you lose about 50% of your gear. All your skills atrophy, maybe you pick up new skills appropriate to doing hard time however. If you're in long enough maybe your plysical stats are reduced as well. Lastly the game sets an internal clock and won't let you play for say one minute per year, you get to look at a non-animated picture of your character sitting in a cell for 25 minutes (if your given a 25 year sentence).

I know such a system will never be implemented ... but I can dream.
 
If they have one it should be something meaningful to the player otherwise why bother.

"You are arrested, tried, and convinced of murder."
#1 Maybe a couple minutes later the player is back to doing whatever. --- This is pointless.
#2 You break out of jail/prison, this maybe takes 5 minutes, probably less. --- This is pointless, and may encourage illegal actions as breaking out is "fun".
#3 Maybe a short cut-scene of the player going thru the legal process and twiddling their thumbs in jail. --- Again, pointless.

I've always favored a rather drastic option.
You get convicted you lose about 50% of your gear. All your skills atrophy, maybe you pick up new skills appropriate to doing hard time however. If you're in long enough maybe your plysical stats are reduced as well. Lastly the game sets an internal clock and won't let you play for say one minute per year, you get to look at a non-animated picture of your character sitting in a cell for 25 minutes (if your given a 25 year sentence).

I know such a system will never be implemented ... but I can dream.

You can still punish the player in multiple ways, no need to have him wait (people will refer to mobile games waiting time if you do that). See "The Darkest Dungeon" for example, its punishing to the extent it can kill one of your main characters and you lose ... pretty much everything you did for him (levels, skills, gear, trinkets etc).

For this prison, it depends how evil they want to be:


  1. If they want to increase role-play and gamer stress, they should have you lose your character until he is free again (you create another character to play with and when you have multiple, you can switch).
  2. If they want to be less evil, I think confiscating your full gear is the way to go. If you break out, you still need to get your gear back, and if you don't have the money, well you need to find them. Going to jail again will confiscate your new gear to a second slot and you have to pay double to get everything. I think its a proper punishment given you could spend the money for augmentations or various other goodies.
 
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I don't think "jail time" necessarily needs any "hands on" gameplay. It just needs unfavorable consequences that are tough enough for the player to not want it or be able to easily shrug it off (fines, gearloss, disabling of augmentations, time constraint considerations, rep loss with certain groups and NPC's, etc) -- but also, crime life should also be an opportunity of its own.

There was a thread about law systems a long time ago, so I'll just repost what I said about it there. It's a bit on the tangent from a "jail time" system only discussion, but it is related in the big picture.

I'd want a persistent crime system where things build up. And the PD to be a thing to fear; not inescapable or completely unavoidable, but something that will keep you on your toes and will not forget if you cross the law. That once you have enough on your account, they will vehemently hunt you down. And if it was you alone against the PD in open battle, there should be little chances for you to survive (no GTA style rampages against an army). A system where petty crimes (if you are caught or are seen) get you fines but pile up for an eventual arrest warrant.

That could mean that you have your chances to bribe or speak your way out if getting caught, but if not succesful, you spend some jail time with additional fines. And for the player to care about that, there needs to be consequences and reactions from the game. Certain groups should take notice of these things and react in good or bad depending on the group, there should be dynamic quests that might "fail" or whose conditions might worsen while you are sitting your time, quests that are prevented by a criminal record, NPC's that do not interact with criminals. The criminal record effectively closing doors from you for certain quests, vendors, groups, buildings, locking you out of certain content. The PD's tolerance will get lower and you get hunted down more and more easily and need to be ever more careful, petty crimes might send a heavy force upon you, and eventually you are a wanted criminal that is to be either apprehended or shot on sight. That's a lot of negatives, but there could also be positivie effects to it; such as certain NPC's only interacting with hefty criminal record, some gangs looking up to you more favorably when you are more like them, these interactions opening quests, interactions and merhcandise not otherwise obtainable.

There should be consequences, tradeoffs to think about, but since there is a lot of lawlessness in the city, there should also be opportunities that way.

There are skills for disguises and stealth and forgery to help you avoid the patrols and ID checks and whatnot, there can be bribery of certain corrupt officials to ease your situation (though I don't think it should ever be possible to completely erase your record once it's there, nor should these ways of avoiding and evading ever be surefire ways to bail you out from responsibility, but just means of trying to cope with it). The role you pick might have an effect - eg. if you are a cop, certain things might be looked past to preserve the reputation of the force and you might have easier time talking yourself out of a shit situation; if you are a corp, you might have easier and cheaper time bribing the officials; if you're a rockerboy, your celebrity status might be held as a mitigating circumstance for lesser crimes; if you are a solo, you are on your own with no bonuses....

You could keep track of your criminal record by hacking the police database (if you have the skill) from your pocket computer or what ever, or you could buy the info from "shady sources", or if you are a cop, you could have free access to it. That might sound a bit off the topic, but it could be considered in-game efficiency of the police to have that information under "guard" and have the player need to actually do something to obtain it (on regular basis if there should be updates).

...for examples sake.


Yeah, this is post is getting wordy and convoluted again... My fault.

Alternatively, they could force the player to watch 5 minutes of this every time they go to jail:




"You are arrested, tried, and convinced of murder."
#1 Maybe a couple minutes later the player is back to doing whatever. --- This is pointless.
#2 You break out of jail/prison, this maybe takes 5 minutes, probably less. --- This is pointless, and may encourage illegal actions as breaking out is "fun".
#3 Maybe a short cut-scene of the player going thru the legal process and twiddling their thumbs in jail. --- Again, pointless.

Indeed.

Say no for pointless systems.
 
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That reminds me of the original "Mafia" game, with 3 police pursuit states: fine, arrest, kill.

Regarding the suggestions above, I would also consider a net-runner 'service' that clears your criminal record for a hefty fee. You pay upfront and for 3 days (while the process is underway), you cannot be spotted by police, or everything would have been for nothing. You can reinitialize the service after that, but you have to pay again. Doing this will allow the player access to the NPCs that require no criminal record and will balance things out (imagine if you are new player and play around, get caught then realize what you 've done after a lot of game-time, people might quit). The essence of good mechanics is not only to add a problem, but a solution too; ideally multiple solutions for each problem.

There are multiple ways it can work, that's for sure. I would want a prison/arrest mechanic as well as a solid death mechanic that will make me consider my actions more carefully. I would even suggest the save system to be made in a way that you can't go back after dialogues or critical choices.
 
It isn't pointless if it is another aspect of the game entirely, similar to say joining the thieves guild in a beth game. It's a new area to explore, new relevant quests for both in and for when you get out, ect. I would love to see a full prison mechanic that you can fully play. Make it another player experience, not just a waiting game or quick fade to black. (Unless you choose to skip/wait it out like you would otherwise?)

I love the thought of having to break out, or at least having the options.
 
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So few games do this well that I can't help but think it wouldn't be worth it. Best case, it doesn't suck and is a minor speed bump. Worst case, we end up with something absurd like psychic cops or several minutes of sitting around idly waiting to be let out.

But!

It would be cool if prison was an opt-in multiplayer experience rather than just sitting around in a cell or a random fade to black. Say you did something bad. Either you go all freedom-or-death, or choose to resolve things peacefully like a pansy and go to prison, where other players who made a similar pansy choice also dwell. There you can talk smack about people. Be beaten/killed by corrupt guards. Beat and kill those very same guards with help from other players. Maybe even break out? I haven't thought the idea through, but at least it'd keep prison from being a boring mechanic that serves only to annoy, not to mention allowing for a MP experience separate enough from the SP that neither compromise each other.
 
I kinda hope that both being arrested or hospitalized mean that time goes by and maybe we can't do some missions anymore but have to live with the consequences. Mind you, not all missions (not by a long shot) should be timed-arrangement based like that... but a sizeable proportion of them could be. Just make it have consequences and don't go overboard with "this has to be done tonight" (sometimes maybe) but more like "in a week" or "three in-game-days time". I'm thinking about this quest-line in the first Witcher game (the only one I've played) in which you had to side with either the Order of the Flaming Rose or the Scoia'Tael (a "terrorist" elf and dwarf, anti-human group) or remain neutral. Their grudge could only wait so much so the way you showed your neutrality was not showing up for the comfrontation, and that itself had an impact. For me, as a player, renouncing to taking a side, to take an active role in this war, in favour of my own neutrality it felt just right. I didn't think it was preventing me from getting a desireable 100% completion stat, but allowing me to craft my own experience. The other options for this quest can wait for me to play a second or third playthrough.
 
Most of the problem is the vast majority of player want their games action packed and easy. They play them for relaxation and fun not to explore the meaning of life or experience a semi-realistic combat/life simulations.
Most of us on this forum are ultra-nerds ... we're having serious discussions about a game we know almost nothing solid about. While I have no doubt various folks at CDPR look in on us occasionally (and probably roll their eyes) and CDPR has a justifiable reputation for "doing games right" they do have to consider the wider audience ... and we ain't it. At the same time I suspect one or two of the discussions here have caused someone at CDPR to reconsider something in CP2077.

While we all have a "perfect game" (that we know we'll never see) in mind we also need to consider practical implantation. Who knows, someone here may well come up with something that will actually work!
 
While we all have a "perfect game" (that we know we'll never see) in mind we also need to consider practical implantation. Who knows, someone here may well come up with something that will actually work!


Yeah, other than a cool optional storyline where you are in prison, a la a mini-Escape from Butcher Bay, I can't see much being done with this.

Although they do put the prisoners in the 'dance, a super-bland horror of unending yech. Apparently, they'd rather die than go back. So you could have a version of the 'Dance where instead of that, you get this whacked out fantasy world of grit and loss. You'd be this chemically-augmented, gene-modified super-mercenary's...buddy, a fairly annoying Rockerboy who follows the Merc around and makes pretty stories up about his adventures, while coping with the effects of your insecurities and wide assortment of STDs.

Oh, prison. When will you not suck?
 
Humm ...
So force the player to sit thru say one minute of "Leave it to Beaver" reruns per year of sentence?
That might work.
 
Most of the problem is the vast majority of player want their games action packed and easy. They play them for relaxation and fun not to explore the meaning of life or experience a semi-realistic combat/life simulations.
Most of us on this forum are ultra-nerds ... we're having serious discussions about a game we know almost nothing solid about. While I have no doubt various folks at CDPR look in on us occasionally (and probably roll their eyes) and CDPR has a justifiable reputation for "doing games right" they do have to consider the wider audience ... and we ain't it. At the same time I suspect one or two of the discussions here have caused someone at CDPR to reconsider something in CP2077.

While we all have a "perfect game" (that we know we'll never see) in mind we also need to consider practical implantation. Who knows, someone here may well come up with something that will actually work!


  • There are more than 27 million League of Legends players.

  • All the best selling games of all time are based on family games (which is why Microsoft is forcing Rare to make kinect games for example).
  • Dark Souls franchise passed 8 million copies in last July (2015) (its difficulty makes it inappropriate for the vast majority of players).
  • Annual analytics for video-games include mobile games to the sample rate. Meaning that the mix is diluted towards easy difficulty (which most mobile games have).
  • The average player enjoys a shooter, but will enjoy a shooter more if it has a special flavor to it (if its easy to understand and communicate information).
  • The new Batman series rely on puzzles heavily and some gaming sites consider some entries of the series as one of the best action games ever made. Same with LA Noire.
  • A true RPG will let you choose your own way, meaning that even in prison you can brawl/fight/try to escape (see my suggestions above).
  • It's never about the game in bulk, it's always about the little details.
  • CDPR's motto is: "Made by fans"

According to YT, these are the most played games of all time:
10.Team Fortress 2 - 2 billion hours
9.Halo series - 3 billion hours
8. Counter Strike series - 3.6 billion hours
7.GTA series - 4 billion hours
6. Minecraft - 5 billion hours
5. Dota 2 - 6 billion hours
4. Guild wars series - 15 billion hours
3.Call of Duty series - 25 billion hours
2. League of Legends - 30 billion hours
1. World of Warcraft - 60 billion hours

The reason those are popular is because of the interaction with other players and competitiveness (have better equipment/stats than your friends/world).
Combat is also considered "mature", thus selected by 15+ yr old gamers and up.
The combat is just a medium that is easy to understand and fits perfectly with easy game development. It is also very unlikely you can have an MMO without including combat (haven't checked the stats of "Second Life" but that is another discussion)

Even though I made a complete contrast by taking combat out completely, things are easier when combat is included. So in the case of C77, its like a chess tournament with a pool party in the backyard. Difficult, but it can work.
 
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If they have one it should be something meaningful to the player otherwise why bother.

"You are arrested, tried, and convinced of murder."
#1 Maybe a couple minutes later the player is back to doing whatever. --- This is pointless.
#2 You break out of jail/prison, this maybe takes 5 minutes, probably less. --- This is pointless, and may encourage illegal actions as breaking out is "fun".
#3 Maybe a short cut-scene of the player going thru the legal process and twiddling their thumbs in jail. --- Again, pointless.

I've always favored a rather drastic option.
You get convicted you lose about 50% of your gear. All your skills atrophy, maybe you pick up new skills appropriate to doing hard time however. If you're in long enough maybe your plysical stats are reduced as well. Lastly the game sets an internal clock and won't let you play for say one minute per year, you get to look at a non-animated picture of your character sitting in a cell for 25 minutes (if your given a 25 year sentence).

I know such a system will never be implemented ... but I can dream.
Even in Night City, there should be pretty heavy consequences for putting slugs into a cop (provided there's another cop available to radio in for back up.)

Most of the other big sandbox games (GTA, Saints Row, etc.), hosing cops or getting into massive firefights on the street carry little consequence.

I would hope that CP2077 makes you reload from your last save (or roll a fresh character, if you're playing Hardcore mode.)
 
Even in Night City, there should be pretty heavy consequences for putting slugs into a cop (provided there's another cop available to radio in for back up.)

Disagree. Boostergangers do it a lot. Being a Cop in Night City should be a canary-mine kind of situation.

I exaggerate a little, but, yeah, I don't think Cops should enjoy the kind of protection we see now, in the Dark Future. If they don't have the immediate firepower to back their play, they are meat like anyone else.

Of course, the nearer you are to the Corp Center, the more firepower they have, and so MANY kinds of cops.

But a quick perusal of the Night City sourcebook shows you how the boostergangs are all over the city - and cops avoid messing with the violent ones.

This mostly applies to NCPD. Not corporate cops, SWAT, CSAT or the HArbour Patrol, all famously hard-line hitters that rock and roll faster than anyone short of the Blood Razors wants to mess with.
 
Disagree. Boostergangers do it a lot. Being a Cop in Night City should be a canary-mine kind of situation.

I exaggerate a little, but, yeah, I don't think Cops should enjoy the kind of protection we see now, in the Dark Future. If they don't have the immediate firepower to back their play, they are meat like anyone else.

Of course, the nearer you are to the Corp Center, the more firepower they have, and so MANY kinds of cops.

But a quick perusal of the Night City sourcebook shows you how the boostergangs are all over the city - and cops avoid messing with the violent ones.

This mostly applies to NCPD. Not corporate cops, SWAT, CSAT or the HArbour Patrol, all famously hard-line hitters that rock and roll faster than anyone short of the Blood Razors wants to mess with.
This is pretty much what I was getting at. I agree that a lone cop (or even a two-man cruiser) is game for getting bushwhacked in the seedier parts of the city, but in the shiny Corpzones, (gun)fire should rain from the heavens if players get too cavalier.
 
Yep, different zones of the city should have different levels of response not just because they're "policed" by different organizations but because of what segment of the population inhabits them.
Ideally authorities respond to every call in their area of responsibility equally given the severity of the incident. Since when is any portion of the world ideal?
 
This is slightly off-topic, but staring at the Night City sourcebook I am reminded how intermixed the boostergangs are with the rest of Night City. Sure, some gangs like the Blood Razors are in the Combat Zone, ( we presume) because Just Too Crazy, but for example Maelstrom in all it's cyberpsychotic glory is right downtown.

And violence is very prevalent. Gang warfare, citizen disputes, cops dealing aggressively with these issues and everyone hiding from Arasaka's "There Is No Such Thing As Overkill" response means for a very...exciting and arrest-prone city.

Post Firestorm, I wonder if it's better or worse?
 
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