Reinforced Trebuchetes. I don't like them

[memebyerin1]

Reinforced Trebuchetes. I don't like them

4-strength Seige for Northern Realms
+1 to all other Reinforced Trebutchets, wherever they are, when one is played.
Every 2 turns random enemy loses 2 Health

Allowed 3 of them.
Foltest can create a 4th.
Reinforcement, Stennis, Priscilla and Reivers Scout guarentee them all to come out.
Promote stops you from removing them.
2 Adrenaline rushes means you can't get rid of them. Foltest can create a 3rd Adrenaline rush.
Field Medic, Nenneke and Shani can bring them back.

And they're all bronze, so you can then fill your deck with Gold and Silver cards as you please.

Becoming Gold means you can't scorch them.
Becoming Buffed means you can't attack them.
Constant Damage every 2 turns means you can't overpower them.
Even a single Adrenaline Rush means you can't concede the round to them.

There is no God. Only Reinforced Trebuchets.:what2:

 

[Fillory]

Any time I play against a Northerm Realms deck, I save all of my destruction cards just so I can wipe out the stuff they're going to promote the second it's placed onto the field. Killing that stuff before it becomes a problem is usually the difference maker between a won round and a lost one.

Same strategy goes for Hawker Support, while we're on the topic. If you get rid of them as soon as they're placed onto the board, you can save yourself from having to throw away your scorch card.

 

[Devizz]

Yup, the card is pretty strong, especially if you don't run any removals or just failed to draw them. Needs a minor nerf I'd say, probably strength change from 4 to 3. Maybe even 2 but that may be stretching it.

Could also nerf its DMG from 2 to 1.

 

[joyrok]

Yup, the card is pretty strong, especially if you don't run any removals or just failed to draw them. Needs a minor nerf I'd say, probably strength change from 4 to 3. Maybe even 2 but that may be stretching it.

Could also nerf its DMG from 2 to 1.

Yeah my strategy is to use them if I can but if they get destroyed then I go onto a backup plan. Probably nurfed to 1 damage is better, I've won many a duel just by the 4+ points attacking every 2 rounds alone. They get enough points and then bam -4 (having duplicated 1)

 

[Exentryk]

Haha, I love my Trebuchetes! Especially when mine are stronger than the opponent's
Also, they're fine. You can have multiple Savage Bears in Skellige for 3 damage to every new card.

 

[DoomDash]

They are pretty brutal! I'd say let's see if the meta figures it out. Maybe make it a harder card to get.

 

[memebyerin1]

Two 100-strength, Gold, Adrenaline, unstoppable, bully cards.

'This is Fine'

*Vietnam flashbacks*

 

[Rethas]

Two 100-strength, Gold, Adrenaline, unstoppable, bully cards.

'This is Fine'

*Vietnam flashbacks*

We are looking into them.

What do you feel makes them so frustrating?

Would you rather them be a 1 time countdown with more damage? Or just a lower value to start with?

 

[Exentryk]

We are looking into them.

What do you feel makes them so frustrating?

Would you rather them be a 1 time countdown with more damage? Or just a lower value to start with?

They're fine as they are to be honest. I mean if you really have to nerf, then perhaps reducing its original value from 4 to 3 might allow a lot more cards nuke them right at the start. That might be an acceptable compromise.


But there are other cards like Savage Bear in Skellige that you can have 3 of which would deal 3 damage to every new card as it enters. You basically would not be able to use any card with value 3 or lower. And anything that survives after would easily be removed. Savage Bear is a 5 value card so not easy to remove at the start either.


Then you also have Blueboy Lugos which with a little buffing, can keep take 2 points from an enemy row every turn. That’s quite powerful.


There isn’t much damage dealing potential with NR deck. Most cards only deal 2 damage once. That’s not enough to kill most good cards.

 

[UnsafeNormal]

As a primarily Monster player, I find the idea of the Trebuchet deck great. I'm forced to play out my game 1 with Northern Realms instead of just dropping Geralt and passing. This is a fun change of pace from my deck's normal strategy.

What I don't like is how easy the trebuchet combo is to assemble. With the way the Mulligan system works, combined with Prince Stennis, it feels like it's almost a sure thing.

 

[Fillory]

We are looking into them.

What do you feel makes them so frustrating?

Would you rather them be a 1 time countdown with more damage? Or just a lower value to start with?

A simple solution to this and some other problems? Don't allow people to promote cards that have Adrenaline Rush or another similar effect added to them.

Adrenaline Rush specifies that it's supposed to work for "non-gold" cards. Allowing people to promote cards /after/ the effect has been applied may be a smart tactic, but it's also an arguably broken and overpowered way of dancing around something that shouldn't normally be possible. Literally the only thing that can be done to stop those cards is to destroy them the moment they're summoned. Nothing else, Hawker Support included, is even remotely as overpowered as two 100+ strength gold cards that can be used in multiple rounds.

 

[ZeroTotalSpiceMix]

As someone who uses the trebuches but not as the focus point of my deck they're hard to balance without makign other stratergies ineffective, i think id be happy with them being a three or having a 3 second cooldown perhaps but to drop the damage makes monster swarms become your poision and those decks are a dime a dozen with two or three nests, and their popularity is also overwhelming.

I like the idea of not being able to adrenaline rush the promoted cards but they will still get promoted just one turn after. perhapse not being able to promote them at all considering they're not a person, but a weapon. you could always try it out and revert it.

 

[InvisibleArrow]

Two 100-strength, Gold, Adrenaline, unstoppable, bully cards.

I've seen some pretty good Monsters and Scoia'tael players who have countered the trebuchets pretty well.
Typically the monsters players use Torrential Rain, Dimeritium Bomb at the right moment just before you would think of converting them to gold level.
Scoia'tael players typically use the cards that deal 3-5 damage and won't allow the trebuchets to get so powerful.
Of course, a well timed Scorch also foils the plan.

 

[Rethas]

A simple solution to this and some other problems? Don't allow people to promote cards that have Adrenaline Rush or another similar effect added to them.

Adrenaline Rush specifies that it's supposed to work for "non-gold" cards. Allowing people to promote cards /after/ the effect has been applied may be a smart tactic, but it's also an arguably broken and overpowered way of dancing around something that shouldn't normally be possible. Literally the only thing that can be done to stop those cards is to destroy them the moment they're summoned. Nothing else, Hawker Support included, is even remotely as overpowered as two 100+ strength gold cards that can be used in multiple rounds.

That would be a weird obtuse special case rule. Generally those aren't easy to understand, which is why we mostly don't have things like that.

Generally you shouldn't allow your opponent to get that kind of presence on the board. But promote counters are coming soon

 

[Exentryk]

But promote counters are coming soon

There are already counters to Promote, like Phillipa and Djikstra cards (one can argue they need to be neutral though). People can also stop the opponent even getting to promote stage by using Weather and what not.

Anyway, I hope some weather counters or immune-to-weather cards are coming to decks like NR and Sco, coz currently, there isn’t much one can do against Weather, esp with those decks.

You can’t take away an advantage from one deck (like Promote with NR) and not do the same to other deck’s advantages.

 

[BeanusMaximus]

That would be a weird obtuse special case rule. Generally those aren't easy to understand, which is why we mostly don't have things like that.

Generally you shouldn't allow your opponent to get that kind of presence on the board. But promote counters are coming soon

I like to let them buff them till they're mega op like this, literally using every card to buff them. Once they used enough cards play Phillipa on that row to reduce them all back to 1. Made so many people rage quit with that. Guess they don't like it when a 100+ row goes to < 10

 

[Rethas]

There are already counters to Promote, like Phillipa and Djikstra cards (one can argue they need to be neutral though). People can also stop the opponent even getting to promote stage by using Weather and what not.

Anyway, I hope some weather counters or immune-to-weather cards are coming to decks like NR and Sco, coz currently, there isn’t much one can do against Weather, esp with those decks.

You can’t take away an advantage from one deck (like Promote with NR) and not do the same to other deck’s advantages.

To be fair most factions don't have reactive counters to it, only preventative.

We are aware of that and have planned what we're working on for a while. The first new cards will be focused on weather play and gold play, purposely so as they are areas we knew had concerns.

 

[Exentryk]

To be fair most factions don't have reactive counters to it, only preventative.

We are aware of that and have planned what we're working on for a while. The first new cards will be focused on weather play and gold play, purposely so as they are areas we knew had concerns.

Good to hear you're all over it.

If you're looking to add reactive ways to counter things, one option would be create a new card that negates the effects of the last card used, or last special card used. It would probably require a bunch of coding to consider various effects though.
But I'm sure you guys have things already worked out. All the best, and I'm looking forward to your ideas

 

[bre3zer]

There is no God. Only Reinforced Trebuchets.

It's indeed strong. but overpower ? i'm not certain.

https://www.twitch.tv/bre3zer/v/98103738

In this game i couldn't use my scorch since i wanted to get value i pass my 2nd turn wich is a missplay.

And even without my scorch i barely loose the game.

Question is what are you suggesting ?

There one cards that is underused. It's Dimetrium bomb. Wich reset buffs. I really suggest people to use it. Since they feel they dont get any value out of weather sif not playing monster or playing agaisnt NR.

Maybe a decent balance would be to lower the damage done by 1 Or increasing the number of round it take for the trebuchet to poke you. but then i don't think we will as much.

 

[memebyerin1]

I think 2 damage every 2 turns can very quickly mount up into the realm of damage which shouldn't be acceptable for a single bronze card, and that's assuming you've only got 1.

I would definitely remove the 'Give other Trebs +1'. None of the other Seige units do that, and we're all seemingly happy with those.

I would also definitely only allow 2 of them in your starting deck, instead of starting with 3, and Foltest making a 4th. Then Foltest can create a 3rd, or even drawing a second, at the expense of not having an extra, something else. Give the savage bear the same treatment. Only 2.

I would consider lowering the starting strength to 3, make it Lacerate-able, among other 3-strength removals.
3-strength is also the same as the Reinforced Siege Tower, which i love.

I would reduce the damage to 1 damage at random, every 2 turns.
Or maybe change it to 1 damage every 3 turns at random, then 1 damage to a non-gold target of your choice for every friendly gold played.

Doing all of those things will likely nerf it out of play however.... but i think some combination of these things will make it less frustrating to play against.