Schirru

[M3e0w]

Hey.

So Schirru with 11 provisions is currently on of the least fun units to play against....

I think either removing his Zeal( similar units to him like Vattier don't have zeal either) or changinging his ability to "Deploy" whilst also removing/reworking mastercrafted spears* would still make him feasable, but easier to counter, as it should be.


The fact that nearly every ST deck now boasts Schirru and that they can just play him, boost him afterwards and activate his ability is just frustrating, making big point swings should be possible, but it should be harder to achieve.

*everyone hates those anyway, and they slow down the game... though I think scale shields are ok

 

[Cipher90]

It's funny how they call Schirru the only viable SC card in another post. So it's hate him or love him.

If they changed all power swing cards (I m looking at you damn spear tip) we would probably play rock paper scissors in no time

 

[Guest 4339135]

Hey.

So Schirru with 11 provisions is currently on of the least fun units to play against....

I think either removing his Zeal( similar units to him like Vattier don't have zeal either) or changinging his ability to "Deploy" whilst also removing/reworking mastercrafted spears* would still make him feasable, but easier to counter, as it should be.


The fact that nearly every ST deck now boasts Schirru and that they can just play him, boost him afterwards and activate his ability is just frustrating, making big point swings should be possible, but it should be harder to achieve.

*everyone hates those anyway, and they slow down the game... though I think scale shields are ok

Schirru is broken, he can go to even and with call of the forrest to odd numbers, so you never know how to play against. Especially with Brouver or spears, he can easily reach any value...

 

[Breli]

Well, Schirru as a card is definately strong and, assessed by itself alone, may seen too strong.

However, if you change him you might as well remove the entire Scioatel faction since there is virtually nothing else. All other finisher cards are a joke and mostly garbage.

- Aglais: Since they "fixed" her so called "bug" she is complete garbage and will see no play other than "I'd like to try this Aglais card".
- Xavier Moran: Too slow, row locked ... meeeh.
- What else? I can only think of a strong trap deck but whether thats really viable or not remains to be seen ...

Im comparision
- Skellige: Dagur, Wild Boar, Helmdall/Hjalmar
- Monsters: Morntart, anything big and immue, Glustyworp

On top of that the Scioatel leaders are fairly weak with the exception of Brouver maybe.

There is a reason why Scioatel was frequently paired with cards like Regis or Scorch.

Gloomy prediction: next balance patch will remove Schirru's zeal. He will see no play after that. RIP Scioatel.

Sorry for the rant

Breli

 

[Restlessdingo32]

If Schirru did not have Zeal he would be very close to unplayable. I'll just leave it at that.

 

[thetruerenter]

Like scorch that depends on equality in numbers to devestate so does Schirru and you can counter his ability thus, thereby I ought Moran and Aglais both better then Schirru. It is harder to counter those at the end. Schirru is much overrated. He was better in the beta.

 

[M3e0w]

You get equality in numbers with mastercrafter spears, scale shields(since you can buff him than use his ability....) & Leader abilities.

That's what I ment with reworking the Spear artefact & changing his ability to deploy. Right now 11 provision cost is just ridiculous for how easy schirru is to use, you can't prevent it unless you build a deck around it.

 

[Restlessdingo32]

That's what I ment with reworking the Spear artefact & changing his ability to deploy. Right now 11 provision cost is just ridiculous for how easy schirru is to use, you can't prevent it unless you build a deck around it.

Schirru is not ridiculously easy to use unless your opponent doesn't have a clue and, as a result, makes no effort to play around it. I've had plenty of games where I had to go to great lengths to use Schirru. I've had games where the opponent made the right play to mis-align units or align my own at the same power at the last second to deny it value. I've done both to decks running it with the other factions.

Hell, I've dropped it at times from ST control builds precisely because the amount of resources needed to make it work reliably come with a steep price tag. In a Brouver deck a Vrihedd Brigade with triple charges spent on it can net a 17 pt swing. Against smart opponents Schirru is probably topping out at 20ish. And by ST control builds I mean Brouver. Eithne sucks and Fran doesn't need to rely upon Schirru for large swings.

The simple fact of the matter is Schirru sees so much play because you need swing cards. It's one of the better swing cards. It's one of the few in-house swing cards available to ST. Consequently it's one of the few ways ST control can compete with other builds given the garbage tier bronze card selection and forced rigidity in deck building.

 

[markoxford]

Schirru is easy to see coming as the decks are pretty obvious, (look for the boost elf in hand by 4 to pretty much telegraph he's there). Then just manage your boosts and play to deny as much value as possible. Also, a real killer, if you suspect he's the finisher whilst still in the first round - play to win the first and second round and deny round 3 Surprises the crap out the elves I promise you

 

[M3e0w]

Schirru is easy to see coming as the decks are pretty obvious, (look for the boost elf in hand by 4 to pretty much telegraph he's there). Then just manage your boosts and play to deny as much value as possible. Also, a real killer, if you suspect he's the finisher whilst still in the first round - play to win the first and second round and deny round 3 Surprises the crap out the elves I promise you

I'm mainly playing a Voorhis deck with lots of 4-6strenght units, and i get 100/70 win/loss at 4400mmr. Even if i see Schirru comming there's not much i can do, and playing to win r2 is not always an option, depending on draws.

Schirru is not ridiculously easy to use unless your opponent doesn't have a clue and, as a result, makes no effort to play around it. I've had plenty of games where I had to go to great lengths to use Schirru. I've had games where the opponent made the right play to mis-align units or align my own at the same power at the last second to deny it value. I've done both to decks running it with the other factions.

Schirru only costs 11 provisions, even if you only manage to kill 2 units with him you still got his provision cost back, and for 11 provisions you don't even have to go to great lenght to put him in your deck. If I may compare him to Vattier yet again, he can't ever be the last card you play unless you have something to give zeal on the board..... and he costs 12 provisions and requires a locked unit on the board. Compared to similar units he is easy to use.

 

[Restlessdingo32]

Schirru only costs 11 provisions, even if you only manage to kill 2 units with him you still got his provision cost back, and for 11 provisions you don't even have to go to great lenght to put him in your deck. If I may compare him to Vattier yet again, he can't ever be the last card you play unless you have something to give zeal on the board..... and he costs 12 provisions and requires a locked unit on the board. Compared to similar units he is easy to use.

Only 11 provisions... He's not reliable without support cards. Ithlinne and/or CoF usually. I haven't seen an artifact version in a while. Ithlinne and CoF is 20p just to make Schirru reliable. I'd call that significant lengths. You don't need to run both but cutting either hits the reliability, and cutting the latter makes odd powered units a bit of a conundrum. About the only other option there is Sentries on the range row, line-ups with damage units like DB Archers/Milaen or artifacts. All of which face problems.

Attributing value from any buffs applied to Schirru feels wrong. He's a 2 body and needs to kill 9 pts worth of cards to "break even".

The Vattier comparison doesn't make sense for a number of reasons. You cannot compare different cards across factions without considering the whole package.

 

[Archan6el]

I think Schirru is not the problem. It’s artifacts such as spears (crappy binary removal) and the average card strengths that are too close together. Most cards are 3, 4 or 5, making Schirru too easy to get value. Card strength range should be doubled and card strengths should be more diverse. That would also allow for better balancing of cards.

 

[Guest 4339135]

Schirru is easy to see coming as the decks are pretty obvious, (look for the boost elf in hand by 4 to pretty much telegraph he's there). Then just manage your boosts and play to deny as much value as possible. Also, a real killer, if you suspect he's the finisher whilst still in the first round - play to win the first and second round and deny round 3 Surprises the crap out the elves I promise you

The only problem is that elfs are usually good at longer rounds and so it's hard to beat them in round 1. And when you win and bleed in round 2, then you often go down a card when Schirru is used. So you have to win round 3 a card down.

 

[M3e0w]

Schirru should at the very least have his ability changed to deploy.

 

[C7Racehead]

As it stands I don't think it's fair to nerf the strongest Scoiatel card given that the faction as a whole is lacking a bit. It would be more mindful to reassess Schirru's value when the new set comes out in March.

As of right now you need a build around Schirru if you want to play ST competitively.

 

[violentia]

SCHIRRU and mastercraft spear is nonsense ...

 

[nedders]

Schirru should be a 15 provision card. It's damage is always high and it's not a hard set up, as you can obv have Brouve or Eithne, one or two spears at the ready. Think about it - Scorch alone is 14 provs, how the hell is Schirru 11?!

 

[Restlessdingo32]

Think about it - Scorch alone is 14 provs, how the hell is Schirru 11?!

It's for a few reasons....

1. Scorch shouldn't be 14. It was fine at 11.
2. Schirru has to have a deck built around it so it can be buffed. Otherwise it's a bad card.
3. You can force it to brick and it's not amazing in a short round.
4. Most important of all, Schirru requires the ability to count to 4.

 

[M3e0w]

It's for a few reasons....

1. Scorch shouldn't be 14. It was fine at 11.
2. Schirru has to have a deck built around it so it can be buffed. Otherwise it's a bad card.
3. You can force it to brick and it's not amazing in a short round.
4. Most important of all, Schirru requires the ability to count to 4.

I've seen a lot of decks that don't really build arround schirru, they have him, the 4point handbuff unit and the dryadd leader. That's about all they do to accomodate him.
I get that against many decks he's all but OP. But consider this, you lost r1 and you know your opponent has schirru, and you know he's strenght 6. You have a few strenght 5 & 6 units in your hand and limited ability to damage/buff.
Whichever way you play your oponent can just deploy schirru and ping him with the stupid leader ability untill he's at the point where he can do the most damage. And there is NOTHING you can do unless you have a deck built for it. And there shouldn't be any 1 card that just disvalues a whole array of decks. If his ability was deploy then you could play smart... as it is now it's just a way too flexible unit, at least for 11 provisions.
Scorch is fucking harder to use and easier to play around.


Maybe istead of changing his ability to deploy Schirru should be immune?
Whatever I just want him to be less flexible, or he should be made so that people REALLY had to go to great lenght to build a deck around him, as at this time 1 extra card suffices to be able to use him

 

[Restlessdingo32]

I've seen a lot of decks that don't really build arround schirru, they have him, the 4point handbuff unit and the dryadd leader. That's about all they do to accomodate him.
I get that against many decks he's all but OP. But consider this, you lost r1 and you know your opponent has schirru, and you know he's strenght 6. You have a few strenght 5 & 6 units in your hand and limited ability to damage/buff.
Whichever way you play your oponent can just deploy schirru and ping him with the stupid leader ability untill he's at the point where he can do the most damage. And there is NOTHING you can do unless you have a deck built for it. And there shouldn't be any 1 card that just disvalues a whole array of decks. If his ability was deploy then you could play smart... as it is now it's just a way too flexible unit, at least for 11 provisions.
Scorch is fucking harder to use and easier to play around.

As I mentioned earlier, yes, you can run limited supporting cards. This is particularly true for Eithne since it can hit it's own Schirru to align it as desired (hint hint, how bouts we make it so Eithne cannot hit it's own units....). The thing is getting a Schirru to hit as desired as a 6 isn't all that common. It's a more difficult line-up to achieve unless the opponent is in a very specific situation or can't do basic arithmetic.

4 is probably the more common line-up for Eithne. 4 requires spending 2 negative leader pings or, in the case of spears, spear pings (wyvern shields are another animal... but again, how bouts we don't let such cards play both sides of a board, ditto for spears). Even if you burn three 4's, which would normally put Schirru at a 14 (2 body + 12 damage), you're doing -2 to your own board to get it. So Schirru ends up being a 12. 12 for 11 with work to achieve line-ups, not so amazing. If you find yourself in a situation where you have 6+ 4pt cards on the board at the end of the game it was probably due to a misplay, either based on the match-up, in the deck builder or somewhere in the rounds. Obviously CoF applies as well (more better way to hit at 4).

I should also point out 12-16 value on a high value gold is not exactly abnormal. Unicorn/Chiro net 12 and 8, respectively, and each cost 9p. Gimpy can be worth 10+ and get ridiculous value in the right scenario (board snowball cards filling a board). This doesn't even count hidden value gained by whatever it may kill in the process. Regis: HV and Yrden can translate to 30+ point swings, and those are deploy cards. Harald + Dagur is a 20 pt finisher. Shupe with the right roll is 13+ but Emhyr can double play it, making the leader also 13+. Rot Tossers at the end of a round on an opponent pass can get ridiculous value. Tall MS/Thrives, Eredin with immune in the right scenario. Crach is still the MC Spear leader. How about Lippy providing the option to replay all your good cards and potentially throw 10 pts at the board in the process? The list goes on.

The short version, pointing at Schirru alone doesn't make sense. There are a ton of over-valued cards. So many it makes it appear as if it's by design. Hell, every play of the month highlights insane point swings in pretty much every single game showcased.