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Should Blue Strip Scouts have a higher provision cost?

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Should the Blue Stripe Scout provision cost be increased?

  • Yes, and/or decrease face value

    Votes: 1 3.4%
  • Yes, to 6 provisions

    Votes: 2 6.9%
  • Yes, to more than 6 provisions

    Votes: 1 3.4%
  • No

    Votes: 23 79.3%
  • No, the face value should decrease

    Votes: 1 3.4%
  • Don't know

    Votes: 1 3.4%

  • Total voters
    29
Considering the ridiculous value you can get from this 4 provision card, and how often and much it is used to duplicate blue stripe commandoes. It's a 4 provision card with 4 face value, but the value it brings for it's use, is way more than any 4 provision card that I know, and that includes card with lower face value as well.

Is this card overpowered for a 4 provision card?

Should the provision costs be raised to say 6 for this card to rebalance it somehow?
 
I think they are quite okay at 4 provisions right now. It's not as seamless a play as the Wild Hunt Riders for MO due to the vulnerability of Order.

Of course, NR is getting Shield in a few days but I don't think the Commando is the best of units to spend it on.
 
RED Points: rrc
It's also the only thinning bronze with an order ability though.
scouts does not do any thinning at all.

commando is already 6 provision.

and no stripes is fine at 4 since it can brick so easily and pretty much only synergizes with commando unless it's henselt that needs a target.
 
I think they are quite okay at 4 provisions right now. It's not as seamless a play as the Wild Hunt Riders for MO due to the vulnerability of Order.

Of course, NR is getting Shield in a few days but I don't think the Commando is the best of units to spend it on.
This is true, order is vulnerable. But despite that, this may be the main strategy of NR in many cases. Once I came across this with Nilfgaard with a lock deck, and despite locking everything, they still managed to desperately play their blue stripe duplication tactic. I mean, if even Nilfgaard can't counter it, then it's a difficult move to counter in general I recon.

Perhaps it would be different if the Blue Strip Scouts had order instead of deploy. But there is no real counter to this move, and some players just seem utterly desperate to use this move. It seems like one of the main strategies for NR, a sign it might be slightly overpowered. For me a far more powerful move than 3x witcher and roach at 30 provisions for 12 point move. 8 scouts provisions, 12 blue stripes, 20 provisions for a 24 point move. Then you have any additional duplication or replay of those cards in addition, creating even more points, say maybe 40 points with 28 provisions or something alike to that.
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Of course, NR is getting Shield in a few days but I don't think the Commando is the best of units to spend it on.
I already see this scount/commando duplication tactic alot. I can imagine shield on the commando will be a very popular move.

What exactly can you do to counter the say 32 point move? Even witcher trio is useless against this. And any destroy tactic is pretty pathetic on so many cards. If you don't play Nilfgaard, you have a limited option for locking down the tactic as well.

The only real option is Auckles with Serrit at hand, locking all copies.
 
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This card is almost impossible to keep alive and is often used just to bait out locks or removal to protect real engines. It can also brick you like any other thinning cards (i.e., when you draw both). I've also occasionally let opponents get this combo off when I'm holding Gimpy, lacerate, or other cards that punish row-stacking. Current provision cost and strength are fine in my opinion.
 
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Ooh, the more I see this move, the cheaper it feels. Is this the move those few players in pro ranks and top of the non-pro ranks use to have a chance at all with Northern Realms?

This move of ever duplicating and reusing the blue stripe commandoes is sickening. And so cheap, it's unreasonable.

I mean, if this is the only move the North have, then perhaps it's time to trash it and do something about Northern Realms as a faction to make them better. CDPR did adjust the Witcher duo, beyond making it useless. So why not adjust this move as well?
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Interestingly, people complain about the Viper Witcher which is a 6 provision card and put's 4 points on the table and banishes one card from the top of the deck.

Blue Stripe Scouts are way more powerful and "game changing", and it's only 4 provisions and puts 4 points on the board.
 
Ooh, the more I see this move, the cheaper it feels. Is this the move those few players in pro ranks and top of the non-pro ranks use to have a chance at all with Northern Realms? This move of ever duplicating and reusing the blue stripe commandoes is sickening. And so cheap, it's unreasonable.
If a faction depends on a 6 provision order card and a 4 provision bronze card as its win condition, doesn't it say something about that faction? Let me tell you a true story. I have never let Commando and Stripes to get value unless I want them to, lets say I have a Crushing Trap or Scorch or simply I don't care about winning that round. Never. (or may be 95+% of the times). With so much crazy removal in the game Commando and Stripes are absolutely useless. If the first commando gets killed, you have three bricked cards in your hand and deck. If you don't see this as a bad thing, I can't tell anything further. The risk is much much more than the reward. I have seen people using Foltest's charge on him. I become sad whenever I see that.

I assume you play NG and what is your opinion about Infiltrator? You think he is a fine card? A 4P 4P card which can mess up with your opponent's mulligan and can sometime even win you the game.

Interestingly, people complain about the Viper Witcher which is a 6 provision card and put's 4 points on the table and banishes one card from the top of the deck.

Blue Stripe Scouts are way more powerful and "game changing", and it's only 4 provisions and puts 4 points on the board.
If Viper Witchers were an Order card, I guarantee that people will not complain about it. 100% surely. So, we should never compare an Order card with a Deploy card. Stripes work ONLY with Commondo who is an order card. If he gets removed or locke, you have bricked yourself so hard that it is almost game over.
 
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If Viper Witchers were an Order card, I guarantee that people will not complain about it. 100% surely. So, we should never compare an Order card with a Deploy card. Stripes work ONLY with Commondo who is an order card. If he gets removed or locke, you have bricked yourself so hard that it is almost game over.
Well, I have played so many of these guys that I know they will do anything to play this move. And locking/destroying ONE commando is not enough to stop the move. Once I had 4 locks/destroy in my hands, and used them against this move, but the guy still managed to play the move in the end. With the card to restore all blue stripes back into your deck from the graveyard, this move is completely overpowered.

For a lousy 20 provisions. That's less than the previous version of the Witcher trio. Then add that move from graveyard card, and yet another few copy cards, and you have a very powerful move, for very few provisions. Not all factions have locks or powerful destroys, and not all decks draw enough powerful destroys to prevent a ridiculous 30 point move in two different rounds.

I'm "lucky" to be playing with Nilfgaard. I have no idea how it can be possible to stop this move with another faction. My 4 locks and 3-4 destroy cards is usually sufficient to prevent the worst of this move. But that's down to my very special and oppressive deck.

There is a reason so many people are desperate to play this move, they know just how overpowered it is, especially in a Henselt deck, playing it in two rounds, or succeeding in at least 1 round.
 
Wow, wow, wow, wow... let me stop you right here, buddy. Are you really complaining about 4 provision, 4 strength card which is useful only in the combination with the 6 provision, 4 strength card or in the memey decks (shupe henselt)? Are you really comparing it to the witcher trio with the roach? Where exactly do you see all that thinning potential hidden in the blue stripe scout card?
Imagine the situation when there is nothing to copy. Do I really want to put more filler bronzes to my deck? Nope. So let me enjoy my werewolf without immunity.

People can complain about literally anything. That is cute. I get used to rrc who was complaining about weakness of his favourite faction and strength of skellige. Nowadays (after adding new cool cards to green faction) he is only copy pasting his own comments about discard mechanic. But I get it, it is general feeling about the game, so he feels supported.
However, is there any possibility that people will think before opening new thread calling for nerf of some card without any reason? Is it so difficult to put little bit brain power into thinking and try to see the proposed "issue" from different point of view? What are you really trying to get from complaining here? About such insignificant "issue" which you are experiencing...
 
Well, I'm not complaining, I'm just asking if it is not a very overpowered play, and saying that in my impression (and asking if) it is the ONLY play that makes Northern Realms competitive.

I've not seen pro's play Northern Realms, but I have an idea in my head that anyone with Northern Realms up there uses (and abuses) this move.

If it is the case, then something needs to be adjusted with Northern Realms. And the move in itself is quite ridiculous and difficult to put a stop to if say there are 4-5 copies of Blue Stripe Commando. I'm not exactly sure how many copies you can make, but it seems a bit overboard, even without a Henselt deck. It's a round winning move, and if you fail the first time you can shuffle them back into the deck for the 3rd round and almost be guaranteed to succeed with the move, since your opponent probably used most locks and (4+) destroys to prevent the same move in the first round.

Being able to play say 20 points at once that cannot easily be removed (5 cards x4 value) is ridiculous for 4 provisions, while you also put 4 points on the table every time you copy these cards. Compare that to the 1 point spy card of Nilfgaard at 5 provisions that can copy a bronze enemy card, and it seems even worse.

Wheoever it was that talked about Skellige, I agree. Look at the ranks. Skellige also seem to have a bit of every ability of almost all the other factions, which seems a bit unreasonable, and their own powers are powerful as well. Probably the reason the witcher trio got adjusted to be useless was due to Lippy.

Blue stripe scount/commando is not an insignificant issue. In my opinion this move is completely overpowered and unreasonable, difficult to stop, ridiculous and game breaking. At 4 provisions with 4 face value it just multiplies the ridiculous move to be even more ridiculous. I think it is an absolute disaster. People may disagree with that, as clearly stated in the poll, but I'm being mild here and not really saying how strongly I dislike this move. I'm being somewhat diplomatic, until just now.

Unless you bring some special cards (Auckles with Serrit on hand, or that damage all copies of a unit by 3(?)) to counter this move or play an oppressive Nilfgaard locking deck, then this move will create big issues for very little provisions, and if you don't succeed the first time, you get to try a second time as well. And each time you try, you can just keep playing the move and trying to get those copies out there. Unless the opponent has a ridiculous amount of locks or 4+ damage cards, those copies will get out there. And even if you manage to stop it, the chance is that these guys will use some graveyard revive cards as well. I can sense the desperation of the opponent every time they play this move, they are desperate to make it succeed, and they will do almost ANYTHING to make it succeed.

For ME, it's NOT an issue. I play an oppressive Usurper lock deck, but aside from that deck it's a huge issue that someone can play like that.
 
So two card combo generating 16 points over two turns for 16 provisions is uninterruptible and overpowered? Or three cards combo for 20 provisions generating 24 points over three turns is even more atrocious? You can literally use just one lock or deal 4 dmg and whole usefulness of scouts in your hand is gone. Unless you can generate new or revive old commando.
Well, try it on your own first. Try one blue deck in this meta. The whole faction is based around orders. You are veery happy if even one engine will stick on the board. Just imagine this situation from the blue point of view. You play cavalry - maybe it will bait removal or lock (most likely it not) you have 9 more cards. You will follow with some weak engine. In some point you will decide to play bsc thinking you will finally generate at least some points with two more bss in your hand. Well, unfortunately you will not, because our enraged fiery boy is still here.

You are saying that you did not experienced this combo as problem. So how exactly are you extrapolating that the combo is op?

And how can you even categorize it as "abusing". Do you even know what that word means? What even is other purpose of bss as combo with bsc?
 
RED Points: rrc
I've met this tactic with other decks as well, and it was an absolute disaster. I just happen to now play a deck that CAN handle the blue stripe/commando move. I think most other decks will have huge issues handling this deck. Not all factions have the locking abilities of Nilfgaard, and few decks bring enough 4+ destroy cards and draw these to destroy at least 2x blue stripes in 1st & 3rd round.

And that's not even considering ANY other cards than commando/scouts. Just imagine you were able to copy the old witcher trio like this, you'd be outraged I bet. People WERE outraged with trio+lippy.

I don't know the full extent of the commando/scout move either. I did not even mention that people replay the scout cards and copy even more commando cards. I'm not sure what the maximum extend of this move is, but it is alot, for very low provisions, and putting ALOT of points on the table with 1 order which is available on ALL the copies.

And then if it fails the first round, you can replay the same exact move the third round! Even I don't have enough lock and destroys to lock say 4 commandoes in two rounds. Granted, if someone have to play that many to succeed with the order, it diminishes the value.

But don't forget you have cards that remove locks as well.

Take your current deck as an example. How many cards do you have in there that can instantly damage 4+? And how many locks do you have in there?

I did experience this combo as an issue, even with Usurper and 4 locks and 3 or more 4+ damage cards. I had to use them all on this stupid commando move, which left me no tools to deal with any other of the opponents cards. And as I said, once, the guy even managed to play the order in the third round after shuffling them back into the deck. I don't remember how exactly, but there are various ways like graveyard if it is destroyed or playing some card from the deck type cards.
 
...Not all factions have the locking abilities of Nilfgaard, and few decks bring enough 4+ destroy cards and draw these to destroy at least 2x blue stripes in 1st & 3rd round...

And then if it fails the first round, you can replay the same exact move the third round! Even I don't have enough lock and destroys to lock say 4 commandoes in two rounds.

Take your current deck as an example. How many cards do you have in there that can instantly damage 4+? And how many locks do you have in there?

And as I said, once, the guy even managed to play the order in the third round after shuffling them back into the deck. I don't remember how exactly, but there are various ways like graveyard if it is destroyed or playing some card from the deck type cards.
All you need is either one lock or one 4 point damage to stop this. In R1, when the first BSC is played, if you lock or kill him, that is it. Basically you have let the opponent with 3 bricked cards in hand. The best way to deal with it is, to kill the first commando and that is all you need to do. The Scouts in their hand become absolutely useless. If they are using Pavetta to put that one Commando back, you should actually feed sad for that player.

The only way this becomes too much of a high roll is if you had let this to streamroll on you in the first place. Assuming the opponent has drawn one Commando and two Scouts and has had four Commandos in the GY and Assuming they have drawn Pavetta in R2 and put it all back and assuming they have only drawn one commando in hand and assuming you have no lock, then Yes. It is a very good tempo play. But there are so many assumptions there.

Most of the times, you only have to deny the first Commondo and that is all. People rarely have Commando as their win condition and Pavetta is an overkill. It may work rarely, in lower ranks. And if you have denied the first Commando, you have denied their Pavetta too.

When you say 'you denied Commando in R1 and they still played four Commandos in R3'? It just means that the opponent has three 4 power card in his hand and if you could deny the second Commando by a lock or killing him, it is pretty much game over for the opponent. I don't see this as a problem at all. It is a very high risk and high reward combo.

Also, it has other risks too. Lacrete can wreck havoc to this. Dragon's Dream (less prevalent I agree, but can destroy this). Even G:Igni can completely destroy this. I am always hesitant and not comfortable if I have to row stack to get benefits from any cards (basically many cards in ST) and Commandos give the row stack punishment cards a treat in silver platter.
 
I don't know how/why you say you only need to take out the first commando. Can you explain that?

How about play a bronze card from the graveyard? Yes, people do this.. You can also copy a locked card, it's a base copy, isn't it? You can also unlock them. Add Henselt to that mix. He also can make a copy. Units are no longer locked in the graveyard. Boom, you are back in business, copying commandoes to use in the third round, allthewhile you put a decent 4 points on the table at the same time, for a measly 4 provisions. I know ALOT better cards with alot more provisions who do equal or slightly more than Scouts, yet put less points on the table while doing it.

Vipers come to mind as some card that does something, put 4 points on the table. Yet it is 6 provisions. Copy a bronze card and banish one card is different things yes, but the value can be more or less for either. The totalt value of a good scout/commando play is better than the total value of 2 vipers, unless you replay 1 or copy one or such things and can banish 3 or more gold cards somehow.
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I'm going to test a Henselt deck with Blue Stripes just for fun. This is what I have put together for that move specifically:

Queen Adelia
Operator
Necromancy (counter)
Princess Pavetta
Reinforcements
Zoria Runestone (trying luck)
Blue Stripes Commando x2
Blue Stripes Scout x2

2+2+1(shield)+1+2(maybe) = 6-8 Blue Stripes. With flexibility to counter a lock or kill with Necromancy, and 2 cards that spawn a copy from hand if needed. If all goes bad, I can end up with 6 stripe commandoes in the graveyard that I can move into the deck for the 3rd round. Possibly 8 if I am lucky.

67 provisions, 10 cards. Now I will build the rest of my deck in addition. I might try to build a variety of tactics that the enemy will have to counter with locks or destroys, and some generic cards. Not exactly sure yet. Perhaps I even find more cards that will work well with those 10 already in the deck.
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Ahh, after 2 training rounds, 2 non-ranked rounds and 3 ranked rounds, this hand is even worse than I thought. Makes me think about "spawn" as a function as something defect in the game. This goes not only for the blue stripes commando, but say spawning 1 power copy (gold card) and those silly Skellige Drummond Queensguards as well.

There is most definetely something wrong with the Blue Stripes hand. Maybe the fault is not only with the Scouts. I also underestimated the scouts, since you actually don't just copy Commandoes with other spawn base copy cards, you copy scouts, put 4 points on the table, then copy and put a Commando on top of the deck and call this with one on the board.

This whole situation is unacceptable for the game in my opinion. This Blue Stripe based deck is even much worse than I assumed. I don't know the deck well yet, I've only tried 7 games, but I can see the insane potential of it, and it's just wrong. It shouldn't be like that.
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This last round now after those I ended up with 7 blue stripe commandoes and another forfeit of the enemy. I guess I'm not the only one who detest this hand.
 
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It's a ridiculously overpowered hand, and out of self respect I never had any interest in it. I'm just testing it because I was advice to before I comment too much on it. And from what I have seen from testing, it is even worse than I thought.

I'm not going to be playing this deck. I consider it one that should be banished from the game entirely. (I'd not mind seing a clean Commando trio again though)

I'll do some more testing though, as I don't really know all the quirks of this deck, and I'm not yet used to it, so I'm making alot of mistakes etc. I think if I play this deck with more familiarity, I can see the full extent of it.

The main strategy is simply to copy/use as many Blue Stripe cards as possible in round 1 and 3 and cards that work together with those. My deck also includes among others Draug, which seems very useful together with the copy stripes tactic. Other than that I have some destroy cards and some more generic cards like botchling. With bad draws I still have some other tactics to fall back on. I can for example copy and play 4 Reinforce Trebuchet if the enemy is on the ranged row, or I can use Draug on his own.
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After some more testing, I now often manage to play 8 blue stripe commando cards in the last round. And I am still making mistakes, so I think the potential is higher, but depending on the draw as well.

My impression when I play with this deck is that it takes the fun out of the game for both players.
 
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