So Igni is the new Scorch is the new Aard?

[geok1ng]

igni takes a golden spot in a meta dominated by ST, a deck that igni never hits. it is no wonder that igni disappears around rank 8. some deck require igni anyway, because it its a decent removal.
i plan my decks around igni and scorch, avoiding having multiple equal cards of high str.

 

[milosh69]

igni takes a golden spot in a meta dominated by ST, a deck that igni never hits. it is no wonder that igni disappears around rank 8.

so there's something I can look forward to at rank 8

And strike my comment about nerfing it to hit with 40 on a row, I just wanted to make a point in favor of more diversity. Instead of nerfing Igni I'd welcome more cards with similar effects but which follow more the meta of the deck played - which probably will happen once we leave beta.

I also think I figured out why my experience is as the thread title states, it's the price to craft the card. Scorch (80 scraps) I saw in almost every low-rank game, Aard (200) up until rank 5 and now Igni (800). If it'd be only 80 to craft I would've seen it played probably since the beginning.

 

[Keymaker7]

Im actually curious by now. Just hit 2300 (rank 9) with wild hunt weather deck, yet havent found the easy way to play around Aard. I consder it a good outcome if power swing from by it can be contained within 25. I could actually use such way, if you dont mind sharing. Since from where iam standing the only option is giving up on weather theme alltogether.

Many things depends on faction and tactics, but couple of general rules:
- keep your power divided over all rows
- try to keep power <=19 per row
- if you have to had more than 20 str in row, make opponent's igni as a benefit for you (Skellige: CT Skirmishers, Longships, NR: medics with one/two units in the graveyard)
- try to differentiate strenght in row, never have 2 the strongest units with the same str in the row
- make the less valuable (and/or the easiest to resurrect (if possible)) unit as the strongest one
- try to bait the igni at the beginning, then you will be safer in later phase of game.

 

[isnadtochiev]

Many things depends on faction and tactics, but couple of general rules:
- keep your power divided over all rows
- try to keep power <=19 per row
- if you have to had more than 20 str in row, make opponent's igni as a benefit for you (Skellige: CT Skirmishers, Longships, NR: medics with one/two units in the graveyard)
- try to differentiate strenght in row, never have 2 the strongest units with the same str in the row
- make the less valuable (and/or the easiest to resurrect (if possible)) unit as the strongest one
- try to bait the igni at the beginning, then you will be safer in later phase of game.

Ehm, im pretty sure you missread me there, you mentioned several cards as easy to play around, my question was about specific one:

Im actually curious by now. Just hit 2300 (rank 9) with wild hunt weather deck, yet havent found the easy way to play around Aard. I consder it a good outcome if power swing from by it can be contained within 25. I could actually use such way, if you dont mind sharing. Since from where iam standing the only option is giving up on weather theme alltogether.

Aards as in gold neutral card called: Geralt:Aard. Not as Geralt: Igni, or scortch/epidemic. I also mentioned the deck archetype i was using, wich doesnt have the luxury of medics. Or an ability to spread over several rows.

 

[Keymaker7]

Ehm, im pretty sure you missread me there, you mentioned several cards as easy to play around, my question was about specific one:

True. Those rules are general advices how to play around Geralt Igni.

If we are talking about playing around Geralt Aard with monster wild hunt weather deck, then...it is hard, but manageable Because G:Aard can easily use your weather to destroy your units. I suggest to play more with siege row and try to keep the situation, when you have no weather at you back. Other way one G:Aard will destroy the whole row.

Good option is to play only with melee and siege row and remember to have clear skies for enemy's fog. You do not have to give up on weather, just resign from using ranged row and ranged units.

 

[milosh69]

isnadtochiev: To play around Aard (or Igni for that matter) with a Weather deck you should alway try to build up at least two rows or focus on Siege row. That's why I usually put out Rain and Fog in the first round, Drowners moving stuff to Siege row and (Ancient) foglets on Range row. When you have two Ancient foglets to play, put one out, then fog, then the second Ancient. This way only one gets hit by Igni. Oh an you asked for the link to my deck in the tactis section: http://www.gwentdb.com/decks/10134-heavy-weather

Due to stupid monster ability 9 out of 10 times targeting my foglets I've changed it quite radically though and it sees more success - but getting hit by Igni/Aard hurts more: http://www.gwentdb.com/decks/10409-focused-weather

Once the devs fix the monster ability (first remove fog/foglets, then decide which creature stays for the next round) I'll probably switch back to the first deck. But right now it gives me more wins because I can leverage the factions ability better.

The goal first and foremost in the 2nd version is to clean the enemies board with epidemic and growing at least two creatures in the first round, with the monster ability and adrenalin rush I often succeed in bringing ~30 points into the 2nd round. So even if some creature get's Ignied I still have a second one. And the mirror is a nice surprise the opponent seldom calculates with in 2nd/3rd round

 

[drzappleswag]

I am going to add a bit more context as it seems most opinions here either seem be rooted in inexperience how Gwent is played at top of the leaderboards right now.

I am far from being an Expert at Gwent, although I do understand the game well enough and concurrently I hover around 1500 to the top 2000 players, playing exclusively SK. And in my experiences from most of my games, Geralt Igni is BY FAR one of the top played Golds. Sure its most common in NR, (Most common as in, it exists in every single competitive NR deck besides Henselt.) It can also be played to semi success in some ST decks, although I would agree that there are probably better Gold alternatives for ST overall.

But does it need a nerf? It depends, I'd like to say no. But the problem with Igni is that unlike Aard, it doesn't require a 2 card set-up with Weather. Meaning it can't be countered, only predicted. The issue with prediction is that predicting means nothing if the deck you're playing can't use your prediction to your advantage. For instance, playing Monsters, it hardly matters whether or not you know you are going to get Igni'd. Last round, your cards have limited variability in how they can be played, and unless you have card advantage, which hardly happens as Monsters, Igni will have a large effect on the end of the match. And considering NR can easily get 40+ points last round, it's a Lose-Lose scenario, you can't get enough points on the board, and if you do, you get Igni'd. The only way this doesn't happen to Monsters is constructing an entire deck where Igni mayhem is limited. The result of which hurts deck variability in the long run and isn't the way proper deck construction should work to begin with.

Unlike Monsters this obviously is hardly an issue to ST because they have many ways to play around the card. SK has some ways, but again their entire smichk above 2k mmr is row stacking. They're forced to Row Stacked in most cases because their competitive cards exist solely in the siege row. Geralt Igni completely counters that entire play-style and even if the base buffs are staggered among cards, last round you're guaranteed most likely a 20 power curve in their favor. As a SK player, you at-least have the probability of getting card advantage the 2nd round from Spies, but even still NR is most definitely the faction to beat in my experiences. More so than Scoiateel.

And most competitive players only play NR and ST, both of which, Igni hardly affects them. NR because Igni can't affect their Gold Spam and ST because of Agility. So yeah, I get how most statements are "Igni is balanced." But for the other 2 factions, Igni ranges from just obnoxious playing as SK, to downright frustrating playing as Monsters.

Lastly, a good topic to bring up is that, I can guarantee you with complete certainty, out of result of the new weather changes, where "only one row can be affected by first light", row stacking your units will be the most conducive and the safest way to play Gwent for almost all decks. After this change, you can mark my words, unless some negative aspects are implemented to combat the prevalence of row stacking, both Aard and Geralt Igni are going to be most viable, and strongest Golds a deck can have.

 

[milosh69]

I am going to add a bit more context as it seems most opinions here either seem be rooted in inexperience how Gwent is played at top of the leaderboards right now.

thank you, after two pages finally someone who understands my concern I play MTG for over 10 years and cards like Igni (in Magic terms Black Lotus to name the most prominent) which are too good to not have in your deck usually get restricted or banned alltogether.

Having said that, I've hit a wall with my monsters and can't get any higher rank. So I gave in an made myself an SK deck, which still gets hurt by Igni but nowhere near as painfull as with monsters. But it is quite fun to play if only because it's something new and I finally am "on the other side" of the board. Fortuna also seems to like my change in deck for she gifted me an animated King Bran in the first keg I've opened after the deck change.

Igni.... it's a concern yes but, as I said before, we are only in closed beta and I hope that the devs will have a look at this issue too. Again ST is in huge advantage not only because Igni hurts it the least, they also have an ambush card which can prevent Igni. Similar cards need to find their way into other factions and Igni will loose it's appeal.

 

[isnadtochiev]

isnadtochiev: To play around Aard (or Igni for that matter) with a Weather deck you should alway try to build up at least two rows or focus on Siege row. That's why I usually put out Rain and Fog in the first round, Drowners moving stuff to Siege row and (Ancient) foglets on Range row. When you have two Ancient foglets to play, put one out, then fog, then the second Ancient. This way only one gets hit by Igni. Oh an you asked for the link to my deck in the tactis section: http://www.gwentdb.com/decks/10134-heavy-weather

Wild hunt is predominantly mellee tag. Actually, its all melle. So no, with that deck- you cant do that. I was specificly asking for a way to play around it is a wild hunt. If there is a non-wild hunt weather build - iam unaware of it. Havent seen any, not over 2k rating anyway. As i said, playing a different deck is an option, actually, aard immunity is the main reason why people stack siege so much. But my question refered to a very specific deck.

 

[Archpriest]

Dunno why you are missing the point but anyways, it's closed beta and hopefully there will be more cards with the final release, bringing more variety.

About PFI: I only play it for 1-2 matches when I get tired of Dagon, then I go back to weather.

1-2 matches too many, hehehe...
Seriously though, can you be to the point and explain what is the point of the thread? I mean what is the problem and maybe give a proposed solution to it.

@drzappleswag
your post is a great example why Igni is fine and might even prevent row stacking after weather gets nerfed.

 

[Keymaker7]

But my question refered to a very specific deck.

I gave you some options for this specific deck and how to play around Aard in my previous post.

The best shot with such conditions is:

Good option is to play only with melee and siege row and remember to have clear skies for enemy's fog. You do not have to give up on weather, just resign from using ranged row and ranged units.

 

[Miatrix]

I really wish they would make Ge'els only raise units below 6 to 6, so you could scorch/igni protect the row with a unit above 6 before using Ge'els' ability.

Way too op. Ge'els gets way too massive with Monster Nest. The only way to deal with this is turn advantage + weather or turn advantage + dimeritium bomb, which are both very hard to get (only ST can pull that off consistently). I honestly think Ge'els is fine; high risk high reward. Monster swarm deck will out-build any other deck, easily. Therefore it should also be easier to counter.

 

[isnadtochiev]

I gave you some options for this specific deck and how to play around Aard in my previous post.

The best shot with such conditions is:

It is indeed, an option. Clear skies by itself would be a disaster simply because it removes your frost and rain, but monsters have archgriffin. Deck loses in consistency, foglets are -3 cards in your deck, as well as woodland spirit. Or any other source of fog, for that matter. Therefore yes, if i replace 5 cards in the deck and give up on fog entirely, replacing deck thinning and 16 power swing gold card with 5 str bronze cards with ability that is worthless for my deck, i can counter Aard. I called it "Almost weather control WH". And yep, i tried it) Doesnt stand a chance against a net deck like Dash, or Hipster foltest. Doesnt do anything to longship skellige either. However it indeed can avoid getting destroyed by Aard. It still will hit you for around 12 power swing thou, simply because your heavy mellee row. I wouldnt call those manipulations on deck an "incredibly easy way to play around" anything. You dont play around aard, you build your deck around it.

 

[Keymaker7]

isnadtochiev I will be honest. Deck you are plaing is not the best answer for present meta (ST with Ciri Dash and Hipster Foltest) and the Aard in the same time. But it is CDP RED job to bring some changes in balance to let more decks to be the competitive ones.

After a while I can add some more thoughts:

- to better thinning deck - add foglets and woodland spirit. I realize you want to thin the deck in the first round, so foglets and riders are obligatory. So to avoid Aard, you can summon foglets, use archgriffin and then play with nithral and riders (I know, it is long, but like I said, deck is not the best answer, but we try make it work good )
- archgriffin will be better option against Aard indeed if you want to control your opponent with weather

 

[isnadtochiev]

isnadtochiev I will be honest. Deck you are plaing is not the best answer for present meta (ST with Ciri Dash and Hipster Foltest) and the Aard in the same time. But it is CDP RED job to bring some changes in balance to let more decks to be the competitive ones.

After a while I can add some more thoughts:

- to better thinning deck - add foglets and woodland spirit. I realize you want to thin the deck in the first round, so foglets and riders are obligatory. So to avoid Aard, you can summon foglets, use archgriffin and then play with nithral and riders (I know, it is long, but like I said, deck is not the best answer, but we try make it work good )
- archgriffin will be better option against Aard indeed if you want to control your opponent with weather

I allready use both foglets and riders for thinning, even squeezed in a double cross for the same purpose. Also the more i see nithral - the better. It actually does really well against foltest, against ST... well, if they dont get chain with first mercenery - there is a chance. If they do... i guess thats why they are the top deck out there) Overall - it gave me rank 9, and i believe its possible to go 10-11 with it. Wich i might try to do, when i get back at gwent. Hopefull, as people switch to siege a.k.a aard immune decks completely, i will see less of it:comeatmebro:

 

[4RM3D]

Way too op. Ge'els gets way too massive with Monster Nest. The only way to deal with this is turn advantage + weather or turn advantage + dimeritium bomb, which are both very hard to get (only ST can pull that off consistently). I honestly think Ge'els is fine; high risk high reward. Monster swarm deck will out-build any other deck, easily. Therefore it should also be easier to counter.

But you are forgetting the most important card: Igni. Whenever an opponent sees Ge'els, he will keep Igni until Ge'els is used and then you'll lose.

 

[Miatrix]

But you are forgetting the most important card: Igni. Whenever an opponent sees Ge'els, he will keep Igni until Ge'els is used and then you'll lose.

Igni is not a guaranteed lose. Monster nest + thunderbolt is extremely powerful, Ge'els is essentially just an OP thunderbolt, and your opponent only has one Igni. Scorch usually won't work. Weather and lacerate are honestly worse for monster nest builds.

 

[4RM3D]

Ge'els is essentially just an OP thunderbolt, and your opponent only has one Igni.

After Ge'els you won't need a second Igni. Also, there is still Renew and Eithné.

Anyhow, Ge'els remains a risky choice. Which is the reason he isn't played much. Though, if the opponent cannot counter it, you can potentially get a lot of strength.