[Spoiler Alert] About the endings

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Do you want more RPGs with happy endings?


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What is she scared of? She is immortal, walking around the black wall like if it was a cardboard wall. She seemed rather content to me, powerhungry if anything.
She's not immortal. She can be killed, she's scared of Netwatch and NUSA that are gunning for AI. The weird thing is she'd need an outside party in order to help her stop this from happening.
 
What? She doesn't warn you about what could go wrong, she tells you that this is how Soulkiller works. When she says "the rest will cease to exist" she isn't telling you what might happen if Soulkiller fucks up, she's telling you what will happen when you have Soulkiller used on you. I think your memory is rewriting the game.

Hopping in and out of this thread so forgive me if I'm butting in and missing a part of the previous conversation but I'll put my two cents in on the Soukiller thing.

Alt isn't an authority in the narrative, there is none, just perspectives. Yeah, she wrote Soulkiller but isn't the authority on what makes a human's consciousness. She is a construct, an a.i.

The anti-copy argument would be that the human consciousness resides in the body and as earlier stated the engrams copied from V and separated from Johnny's and then put back into V makes V, V. The interruption in the stream of consciousness doesn't make them a "copy", which implies something lesser to what they are.

Has V changed post Soukiller? Of course, V was becoming Johnny as much as they were V. V is a different person now than before Soulkiller as they were a different person than before they got shot in the head.

Ultimately, the name "Soulkiller" is semantics. Alt is not a narrative authority and shouldn't be treated as such and ultimately the question of what makes consciousness, what makes "me", me is the question being posed, and it's probably not going to be outright answered.
 
So are you suggesting that Alt, the creator of Soulkiller, who needs you for her ultimate plan of getting into Mikoshi to assimilate the engrams and bring down Arasaka, is lying to you by telling you that what she wants to do to you is MORE dangerous than it actually is?

She’s giving her opinion on the matter, and because in her experience she lost almost all of her humanity using soulkiller she tells V as much.
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Hopping in and out of this thread so forgive me if I'm butting in and missing a part of the previous conversation but I'll put my two cents in on the Soukiller thing.
Excellently said.
Alt isn't an authority in the narrative, there is none, just perspectives. Yeah, she wrote Soulkiller but isn't the authority on what makes a human's consciousness. She is a construct, an a.i.

The anti-copy argument would be that the human consciousness resides in the body and as earlier stated the engrams copied from V and separated from Johnny's and then put back into V makes V, V. The interruption in the stream of consciousness doesn't make them a "copy", which implies something lesser to what they are.

Has V changed post Soukiller? Of course, V was becoming Johnny as much as they were V. V is a different person now than before Soulkiller as they were a different person than before they got shot in the head.

Ultimately, the name "Soulkiller" is semantics. Alt is not a narrative authority and shouldn't be treated as such and ultimately the question of what makes consciousness, what makes "me", me is the question being posed, and it's probably not going to be outright answered.

Excellently said.
 
I'd like for someone to answer this question, why would CDPR let V be cured in DLC but not in the main game?
Not sure if DLC will take place
My problem is: what's the point? If those events outside of the main story don't offer a chance to reach VS goal (survival), where is no incentive to do it. As of now, it's already more or less a waste of time to follow the side missions, because they literally are a waste of VS life time.

Alternatively, we could play as a different character. But that would simply feel disconnected from the main games story line.
I think they should stick to V's character instead of introducing a new one. Its never a waste of time to tell more V stories. There is so many questions left unanswered and new gonks to tear apart.
 
Original V died in the no tell motel, so what V are we on then? V3?

Only explanation I remember is that the relic chip had a resurrection function that saved V's life. Soulkiller is used to imprint someone's engram into the chip so that it can override the host's consciousness with that of the engram's but Soulkiller is not the main function of the chip itself.

Post no-tell motel V is still original V, just with engram Johnny threatening to override her consciousness.
 
Hopping in and out of this thread so forgive me if I'm butting in and missing a part of the previous conversation but I'll put my two cents in on the Soukiller thing.

Alt isn't an authority in the narrative, there is none, just perspectives. Yeah, she wrote Soulkiller but isn't the authority on what makes a human's consciousness. She is a construct, an a.i.

The anti-copy argument would be that the human consciousness resides in the body and as earlier stated the engrams copied from V and separated from Johnny's and then put back into V makes V, V. The interruption in the stream of consciousness doesn't make them a "copy", which implies something lesser to what they are.

Has V changed post Soukiller? Of course, V was becoming Johnny as much as they were V. V is a different person now than before Soulkiller as they were a different person than before they got shot in the head.

Ultimately, the name "Soulkiller" is semantics. Alt is not a narrative authority and shouldn't be treated as such and ultimately the question of what makes consciousness, what makes "me", me is the question being posed, and it's probably not going to be outright answered.
But why is she not a narrative authority? If anything, she is the only person who's word about the soulkiller worths anything. She made it and then she became a victim to it too. She experienced everything that is there to be experienced/known about Soulkiller.
 
I like the call logs. It makes me feel distant from these characters, as if I'm alone far away and unable to be saved or without the capacity to reach out for help in a time that I really want them by my side. It's very cold and isolated but when you feel that interaction later on with them I cherish those moments.
I don't dislike them, but I didn't spend 100 hours trying to save V for some call logs.
But if the argument is that they will be cheapened by adding post game dlc to address to car crash of an ending then I'm totally fine with them losing some of their value in the spirit of adding an actual third act.
 
The problem is that is is not close enough. It either works or it doesn't. So johnny walks away in VS body and doesn't die. Strangely, in this case, not being a close relative was irrelevant but when we overwrite the biochip with a V-engram and hope for the bloody chip to do its work (rewriting the host) it suddenly is?

It is not consistent. Either close relatives are needed or they are not needed. Either you can rewrite the brain or you can't. Either the chip is broken or it is not.
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Yeah. Especially when your only remain goal (to save your neck) is actually shattered bit by bit in every mission that comes.
Johnny doesn't die because soley because of the circumstances: The prototype chip was built for his engram, as a test for Saburo's own version of chip 2.0. The reason Johnny 'activates' is because V got shot (Hellman even tells you that this is the first time chip 2.0 has ever worked, project woulda failed without V) and the reason V needs to let his body go for Johnny to live is becasue the re-write process is slowly killing V, mind and body (which'd kill Johnny).

Why does that not work for V, if V's engram is on the chip and Johnny is gone? Alt specifically tells you it's not that easy. The chip was not designed for V, it's not the Secure-Your-Soul relic, again: it's a prototype version 2.0. Why would it work for V? Alt makes it work insofar that V gets to return but nothing indicates that the chip continues to function as intended after being messed with that hard. Did you expect you could just slap a new engram on there and it works? Do you think Saburo used Johnny's chip to transfer into Yorinobu?

It is consistent in that regard.
You need close relatives or it does not work as intended (we see the very first example of this - we play it)
You can rewrite the brain, if the conditions are right.
The chip does its work, it just won't work as it would straight out of an Arasaka lab after an AI replaces the engram that was on it, directly contradicting the work the chip had been doing until then.

This is all explained through dialogue and shards. It's all there.
Is it satisfying all the way through? Not necessarily.
 
AI Alt is still a complete replica of the original Alt, has her memories and knowledge about Soulkiller. I don't know why she shouldn't have narrative authority.
 
Hopping in and out of this thread so forgive me if I'm butting in and missing a part of the previous conversation but I'll put my two cents in on the Soukiller thing.

Alt isn't an authority in the narrative, there is none, just perspectives. Yeah, she wrote Soulkiller but isn't the authority on what makes a human's consciousness. She is a construct, an a.i.

The anti-copy argument would be that the human consciousness resides in the body and as earlier stated the engrams copied from V and separated from Johnny's and then put back into V makes V, V. The interruption in the stream of consciousness doesn't make them a "copy", which implies something lesser to what they are.

Has V changed post Soukiller? Of course, V was becoming Johnny as much as they were V. V is a different person now than before Soulkiller as they were a different person than before they got shot in the head.

Ultimately, the name "Soulkiller" is semantics. Alt is not a narrative authority and shouldn't be treated as such and ultimately the question of what makes consciousness, what makes "me", me is the question being posed, and it's probably not going to be outright answered.
In the Arasaka ending, they forcefully ripped Johnny's part out of V (or tried to). Whereas in any ending with Alt, she says, she was unsuccessful in completely "repairing" the parts of V's psyche that were influenced by or entangled with the engram Johnny. Hence the Arasaka ending's quest title "Where is my mind?". Suggesting that V is now incomplete without lingering parts of Johnny. Again it's a bit wonky, but I guess that is what they were trying to say there.
 
I don't understand where the arguement comes from that anything Alt says is just a subjective opinion. The game doesn't explain the soulkiller anywhere else. Noone in the gane challanges what Alt says and states rather confidentally. Not even V get's hooked on the fact that she claims his soul will be lost. Not even mentioning or asking for advice from Misty who is meant to be our spiritual guide.
For all we know and presented, Alts words are fact. She is a AI, the time we spend with her is completely void from emotions. And as we have also learnt previously in the game, AIs are not to be trusted blindly because they still have their agendas.
 
The Zen master also helps you become closer in body and soul so who knows if that helped during the ending :shrug:

I dunno, we will never know.
I've just mentioned it to let other know that they can get an answer to their question if they want to.
 
But why is she not a narrative authority? If anything, she is the only person who's word about the soulkiller worths anything. She made it and then she became a victim to it too. She experienced everything that is there to be experienced/known about Soulkiller.
Because this Soulkiller is a different version, the only person who probably fully understands Soulkiller now is Hanako Arasaka who both understood the original version, Alts goals, and now the new version. She's a bioengineer as well as an old cyberspace jockey. She's the one who worked on the revised version of Soulkiller. Her version was supposed to have the engram be uploaded into a clone.

The version that Alt created was to project yourself mind body and soul into the net, it didn't kill you. ITS was the one who made it into a weapon. Alt created the version which wasn't a weapon, only for it to be weaponised again by Arasaka when they kidnapped her.

The original program alt created probably didn't have the name 'SoulKiller' as it didn't kill souls, it freed them. Only the weaponised version is called 'SoulKiller'.
 
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