[SPOILERS] Can one ending be removed completely?

[Barsenthor]

Out of all endings there is a one in particular that for to be called “unnerving” would be a far to big understatement.

this is suicide option.

Suicide is a real problem, it was on the rise before pandemic all around the world. With pandemic and the biggest economic crisis since the end of 2nd World War (1945 so it’s like 75 years!) this problem is supercharger to extreme.

And then game give you this option.
Give you this option in the worst possibly fashion
It shows the main character that all players will identify with struggling with terminal disease or some extremely difficult life challenge.
Few things that s/he done failed. And no this was not everything that s/he could have done.
but no matter - you are being given f... gun with text so obviously suggesting suicide that is a shock as it is. The fact that this gun is being given by physician is just another layer of sickness.

But ok, some body can says that there are other endings, maybe they are there to show you that there is always way out and suicide is always bad.

and this is when game is getting only sinister to its limits.
1) most obvious- we know that no matter what we done it’s said that main character has only 6 mo to live. For many players this is a let down, a failure. This is making a suicide to look like alternative.
2) alternative - you see this is where psychology kicks in, and where the biggest problem lies.
The suicide is not something that human can do. We all want to live something must go extremely wrong on many levels to even think about suicide. And this is where the game comes is.
Showing a person a suicide as a option is like disabling first failsafe. This is why people who were raised in family where one of its member comited suicide are more likely to also do a suicide -because they were shown that suicide is an option.

The game shows this and make this look like an alternative.
This is done in the story driven game where gamers are meant to identify with main character, his/her problem.

Please CDPR could you remove this option?

 

[Icinix]

I understand what you're saying, and respect and appreciate it, but I cannot agree with it.

The world of Cyberpunk is a warning, the dangers of a hyper-capitalistic world that leaves throngs of people in the worst of hopeless situations.

If we start cutting out the darkest of moments and how people might feel in those situations, we end up with games that are purely arcade fun and rainbows.

It does show suicide as an option, but it's an option that has some brutal credits messages at how much that hurts the people that matter as well. You don't get rewarded for choosing suicide, it never celebrates it, it never treats it as a 'win' for you, your character or Johnny.

If we cut that out as an option, do we also stop showing violent murder as an option? Theft? Hyper-aggresion? The stories within the world that show other people in hopeless situations doing dark horrible things just to survive?

The medium needs to be more mature than that. Cyberpunk, for all its flaws, presents some dark issues and it does them in a very mature way.

So again, I respect and appreciate your view, but I don't think pretending those options aren't real options that people consider in their darkest moments the right way forward when exploring our chosen medium.

 

[Barsenthor]

I perfectly understand the dark tone of the story, game, lore and genre to the some extends. On the side note yet we can’t forget that cornerstones of the genre like Blade runner or Neuromancer was not dark for the sake of being dark.

Here game and story has some consciousness- you can not go cyberpsycho, can not kill children, can not do/sell drugs, you can not become a crime lore, you (besides few occasions) can not even smoke.

This is all done because it’s bad and would push the game from R to AO rating. And besides it’s just plain wrong.

Then there is a suicide option that was probably an overlook, just like something that is here because it was half backed idea without second thought that it’s not about suicide as a plot device but can also have real life rippling effects.

The endings as they are can make this “dark fate” but going with suicide it’s not only an overkill, since I can’t remember when it was the last time I played/watched/read anything where protagonist died, and this was a mainstream release, not some slow burn story that was not meant for average viewer. But is also wrong in terms of public health and this is without pandemic.

Pls it need to be understood that this game wasn’t released in vacuum.For many people this was a way the escape from current sad reality, struggling with mental illness.
Providing them title where you can pull the trigger as a not bad solution, since the life sucks and by the end there is no hope/cure is wrong. Very wrong.

 

[I_Willenbrock_I]

When you played the endings, the suicide option is actually just a shortcut, where you safe others from death, either you or Johnny from cyberhell and your beloved ones to take care of your shit (probably literally) before you die a slow and painful death.

The suicide option is off course tact less but in the end, all the endings are.

 

[darkallnight]

Going about removing anything that might trigger someone is not the way to start conversation.
I had a close friend who commited suicide, but this was way before any pandemic or anything else, let's just leave it at poor life choices, so I can understand where you are coming from so let me put it like this:

What you are asking is (intentionally or not) pretty much similar to a side quest that happens in V's building. Obvious spoiler ahead - In this quest 2 police officers are trying to reach another officer who locked himself in his house.
You can either ignore it or try and help them reach out their friend, and by doing so you find out that one of the officers constantly mocks the one who locked himself up for trying to reach out to people and says that he just needs time to get past it because that this is all due to a senior officer who was kind of a dad to him managing to die of old age in NC.
But if you help him you discover that he had no one besides a turtle to talk to since his attempts at conversation were always shut down.

Long story short if you either simply tell the officers he needs time or ignore it, some time later you come back to find said officer has taken his own life.
And personally by asking CDPR to remove that ending, conversation about the topic isn't given a chance to reach out, you are doing what that officer did in a way by simply asking someone with this problem to get better the harsher way of not having someone to understand them, we won't have a representation of how Godsdamn hard such tolls can take on the human mind and it stops being a possibility in our heads.

I'm not making light of suicide, but this fear of hurting someone's feelings just because you wish to talk about something delicate shouldn't be a deterrent to start said talk. If we can't see their perspective people can't take their conclusions about anything and make their minds if they agree or not, if they understand or not.
But unfortunately what happens today is the sick romancefication (if that's a word) of suicide through the media, where how to talk and solve said issues is never approached, but it isn't hard to find songs where artists talk about wanting to die or embracing stagnation and death and kids just going with it, even sickly enough inching towards it.

This is why I commend CDPR for including this in their game, because it isn't hard to see through their world how people would opt for this way out. If it happens today and our world isn't that close to CP2077, with the way some things go in the game's world it is another string in your heart that is pulled because it's just another day in Night City.

 

[Witzzard]

Well i understand your fear of the Werther effect this ending might have. But on the other hand as you yourself point out - V is terminally ill in a way, which is something to be discussed in accordance. And then the game is quite clearly saying that it's hurting people and that it might not be a real solution. So i don't know. They might want to include at least some hotlines or something, as the middle ground.

 

[Starstruck91]

They might want to include at least some hotlines or something, as the middle ground.

They kind of did, though it was in light spirits.
When approaching Takemura to initiate "Play it Safe" V can, (given sufficient investment in the Cool attribute) on finding him leaning on the rails joke that. "You know, if you're thinking about jumping, there's people you can talk to about that! Round-the-clock hotline, in fact."

While the whole thing is obviously tongue-in-cheek, they probably couldn't deliver that punchline if the service doesn't exist.
Though how competent said service really is, is... questionable.

 

[syd0w]

I agree with you OP. In short, I understand suicide is an option only a deeply depressed person would take especially so when there are alternative options on the table. And there's literally other options for the player to progress. I welcome the adult-like, "don't pretty it up" approach to painting the Cyberpunk world but man, there's lines that shouldn't be crossed. There are millions of people consuming media and the product developer has to be cognizant of that.

This ending obviously went through review and passed during development. I think the ending voice mails were supposed to reel that choice back in to show it was obviously a bad choice. But hell, why have it anyways? Could have let V pick up the gun, and Johnny just smacks it out of your hand and gives V a lecture. Also - what is the point of the suicide ending if the game state is simply reverted to right before the decision? Kind of silly. I think that also points to some of the project management problems we've been hearing about. I digress.

Spoiler: Secret ending

I would have considered storming Arasaka alone to be a more appropriate "suicide" ending since it's possible that it results in V's death anyways.

 

[moonknightgog]

No. It's one of the best written endings. Expecially the reactions of the main NPCs to V's suicide.

And then game give you this option.

No. Game gives V the option. Player and playable character are not the same fucking thing.

1) most obvious- we know that no matter what we done it’s said that main character has only 6 mo to live. For many players this is a let down, a failure. This is making a suicide to look like alternative.

No, because the aftermath makes it the worst alternative possible.

Post automatically merged: Jan 4, 2021

but man, there's lines that shouldn't be crossed.

This is not a line. If you have suicidal thoughts you should seek help and therapy, and not asking to limit creative outputs of writers or filmakers.

 

[glitr]

I understand what you're saying, and respect and appreciate it, but I cannot agree with it.

This

So suicide is where you'd draw a line? not hypersexuality? not paedophilia? not rape? not torture? not classism? not killing so people can get off?
They show you the consequence of your actions
I obviously do not condone suicide, though I'm glad they put it in, I felt to my core.

No game has made me feel such a wide range of emotions, and I loved every second of what I felt.
Look at the bigger picture, not just your ego.
What if this helps someone?

This is not a line. If you have suicidal thoughts you should seek help and therapy, and not asking to limit creative outputs of writers or filmakers.

This as well
Europe is a much better place for art and creativity IMO, they do things not many other countries would risk and is more widely appreciated and accepted.

 

[trevalyan]

Making a sympathetic suicide option in the name of keeping your friends alive is an understandable creative choice.

Especially when you see that Panam and especially Judy are DEVASTATED by it. I can't imagine anyone would justify the suicide option after that, which is probably why a Suicide option was included.

 

[fjdgshdkeavd]

I appreciate OP's perspective. While I don't think it should be removed, I oddly did find the game heartless in its dealings with suicide in other areas. Specifically, I felt these areas presented suicidal deaths as unduly cheap & cold:

Spoiler

-Evelyn Parker's
-The "Happy Together" quest, where you prevent or cause someone's suicide by choosing the right dialogue options.

 

[TouPoutsou]

If you consider Video Game Development a modern Art Form, then no, you cannot censor it in any way. Besides, yeah, you cannot officially become a cyberpsycho, but you are way worse than any of them. You run across the city butchering every yellow marker on the map, cutting their heads off and the game REWARDS you for. So ...

 

[BunnyBana]

Out of all endings there is a one in particular that for to be called “unnerving” would be a far to big understatement.

You find that unnerving?!
There is a real argument to be made that Alt is using Soulkiller to literally kill your 'soul' against your will and to make a copy of it. The suicide ending is at least on your terms (and V being 'original' V).

The fact that this gun is being given by physician is just another layer of sickness.

Calling Vic a physician is giving the man too much credit...
He is a friend that sees another friend dying/suffering and gives them the option. If that is okay is another question but it is far from 'sick'

1) most obvious- we know that no matter what we done it’s said that main character has only 6 mo to live. For many players this is a let down, a failure. This is making a suicide to look like alternative.

Because it is. But it also isn't. We as players don't see V die. Only the suicide ending is pretty much confirmed dead. Johnny ending maybe too but ... okay not my point. Just seeing the credit calls from your friends in the suicide ending shows that it is the worst of all of them.

2) alternative - you see this is where psychology kicks in, and where the biggest problem lies.
The suicide is not something that human can do.

Many have proven you wrong here but okay...

We all want to live something must go extremely wrong on many levels to even think about suicide.

You mean like a biochip killing you no matter what (according to everyone V talked to) in six month or you being forced to give up your body (and die) because of some rockerboy in your brain?
I don't know... sounds extremely wrong to me.

The game shows this and make this look like an alternative.

Because it fucking is. I'm not saying it is a good alternative but it is an alternative.

 

[nadsh]

Especially when you see that Panam and especially Judy are DEVASTATED by it. I can't imagine anyone would justify the suicide option after that, which is probably why a Suicide option was included.

Not sure about that, especially given the other outcomes. Don't Fear The Reaper gets the same epilogue as the suicide ending if you fail, and it's easily the most justifiable choice for V ("If I die at least let it be with a gun in my hand and on fire").
For Panam and Judy it's easy to judge but they weren't in V's shoes, having their consciousness slowly eaten away and with little to no way out. I hated Panam's voicemail.

 

[Attila_V86]

Honestly I think the suicide option is one of the "cleanest" ending. Knowing very well what the other options can lead to

a: trusting arasaka and hanako to help you after knowing very well how the corpo world works in the world of CP
b: give Johny control and risk the life of rouge and from Vs point of view you never know if johny would give back control after the end
c: go with Panam and endanger a whole clan of nomads to ride with you on a suicide mission.

I only actually played through 2 of the endings yet, the one with rouge and the suicide option, rn I´m in the middle of Pams route, but honestly, after hearing the plan they come up with, the lack of intel, the minimal preparations this route provides... Understandable why Johny says before the decision that Rouge is the only viable option. The nomad way seems to me like is more about let´s just ride and we will improvise.

I find it perfectly acceptable that suicide is an option, knowing very well that you have very little time left, and all the other options suck and endanger many people. It´s a clean, easy way out.

If you don´t like it, don´t choose it.

 

[Zaccarato]

Shit, this game has far more taboo subjects than suicide.

The entire point of the ending is that, if you can't manage anything else, at least this option is V's choice. It's by FAR the worst ending (just listen to those voice mails, especially if you had a romance Jesus Christ), but, in V's mind, it's a choice they have made, which is THE central theme of CP2077.

Exploring these deep concepts is why we play these games, and not the newest Fifa or Cod.

 

[trevalyan]

Not sure about that, especially given the other outcomes. Don't Fear The Reaper gets the same epilogue as the suicide ending if you fail, and it's easily the most justifiable choice for V ("If I die at least let it be with a gun in my hand and on fire").
For Panam and Judy it's easy to judge but they weren't in V's shoes, having their consciousness slowly eaten away and with little to no way out. I hated Panam's voicemail.

It's harsh, but completely in character. Panam and her clan are completely honest in their desire to fight for you, and die for you if needed. That you would spend yourself so pointlessly when they would have helped is why Panam is absolutely furious with you.

Ironically, this is also an excellent bookend to Panam's suicidal plan to charge after Nash and the Raffen Shiv, if V hadn't insisted on helping her. Talk about a self-own!