Spy deck not nerfed?

[Archpriest]

I am SICK! of losing to these noobs with Merchant and SWIM et all decks.

Merchant came up with a deck? That's new. And even if he did, if you lose to anything Merchant created, that's on you

And people are the same everywhere: why would anyone grind to rank 18 when he can just waltz there with no effort?

 

[Khreygond]

So, let's not nerf spy decks (I'm not saying it should be nerfed, even if it is horribly boring to play against), but let's nerf two cards that are very useful against it...

They are admittedly very useful against the spy deck. That's not the reason why in my humble opinion they should be nerfed though. See the other thread for more info, as this is not relevant to this discussion

 

[deuzerre]

From a newb: I find spy decks for nilfgard to be annoying

They're simply the deck with the most synergies I have seen in this game, and unless your deck has a lot of "destroy your own units" or consume, it's a massive chore.
Between the ambassadors that boost their guys by 10 (12-2)
The Emissaries that allow you to get the units you want much more easily than other decks
The assassins that deal massive damage
Vicovaro medics that easily get back whatever they want to repeat their cycles
All of that synergised easily with Impera enforcers or impera brigade in almost brainless actions

Right now, I'm only level 17 and most of my losses I feel are from this type of decks. Even with a deck around consuming with monsters, I just can't get rid of all that crap. Most other decks have much harde to achieve synergies, with a lot more preparation. But to apply it, most of the time you only have to pop out your units.

I just don't enjoy these games at all, they are the utmost vomitive thing I can think of game wise.

I feel the disadvantage most of the cards provide by giving X or Y "points" to your opponent are massively compensated, and if the opponent of such a strategy surrenders a round to stop the snowball effect and to try to save some units, the Nilfguardian can just get the ball rolling again much more easily than any other deck. And there's no way really to break the spy abilities.

I may not be good, but the fact such a non enjoyable to face deck exists is simply ...

 

[4RM3D]

deuzerre Thread merged and edited out the unnecessary language.

As for the spy deck itself, it was pretty dominating before the Midwinter patch. However, nowadays there are bigger threats, like Dwarfs and Nekkers. You are in for a surprise there.

 

[Khreygond]

Very true. The retroactive change to Impera Enforcers is not as bad as I and many people thought, why? Because every base bronze unit except the core units of NG Spies (meaning enforcers and brigades) has received a STR Boost. Alzur's Thunder can now destroy a STR 8 Brigade, Enforcers cannot destroy certain enemy engine units like Kaedweni Siege supports with 3 hits like they could, etc. That's why you will find the spy deck is not too big of an issue. I have a better winrate with bloody Werewolves

 

[Sheva007]

Between the ambassadors that boost their guys by 10 (12-2), The Emissaries that allow you to get the units you want much more easily than other decks The assassins that deal massive damage

Ambassadors are not a big deal, neither are Assassins. As you said, Ambassadors is a 10 power bronze, which is pretty "meh" nowadays, and Assassin is a 10-1 (maximum). Most of the time Assasins are used to kill units with 7 or 8 power, so is not "massive damage", as you said.

The problem comes with the interaction Emissaries + Vicovaro medics, which i understand is not fun to play against. Anyway, Spy NG is not really that powerful, you´ll learn the way around it.

 

[Guest_4248742]

That's what I mean. It's too easy for new players to kick my ass with with the meta decks. No learning curve. They get the game, learn the basics and watch youtube and mill the cards from the other factions they don't want and then rise through the ranks in an unbelievably fast time, learning a little as they go along. How very rewarding for a new player. Yes, that's a really great way to learn the game. I am SICK! of losing to these noobs with Merchant and SWIM et all decks. I can't beat them and I will NOT join them.
I live in china so have to play Chinese people. They never play fair only want to win at all costs. Even if that means calling all their friends or "rent a mob" in a fight situation because...god forbid they lose the fight one on one and ......lose face (wink wink) .Did I just digress there? I think I did!

So anyway back to GWENT. It's brilliant for new players a tell thee.

PS

Your English is very good but I noticed a few errors with singular/plural grammar mistakes. Easily fixed. Not criticising, helping.

Lol .This guy .The whole meta decks is happening to all games online and are you sure that only kids defeat you?You sure they only beat you because of meta decks?

 

[coralzombie]

My win rate vs spy decks is 87%. If you take out the damage dealing cards they put down you breeze them. The annoying thing is how long it takes them to play a single card when that card pulls from your graveyard to pull from their graveyard to play into a swap and then pull back a card from the board. Takes forever watching them decide what to do and slows down the game play a bit too much imo.

 

[coralzombie]

Lol .This guy .The whole meta decks is happening to all games online and are you sure that only kids defeat you?You sure they only beat you because of meta decks?

I think he has incorporated real life fist fighting with Chinese kids into his online anger. Personally I would not fight a mob of Chinese kids, they have all that Kung-Fu and I have none.

 

[gards]

Not to mention, the "reveal" deck....

 

[BornBoring]

Very true. The retroactive change to Impera Enforcers is not as bad as I and many people thought, why? Because every base bronze unit except the core units of NG Spies (meaning enforcers and brigades) has received a STR Boost. Alzur's Thunder can now destroy a STR 8 Brigade, Enforcers cannot destroy certain enemy engine units like Kaedweni Siege supports with 3 hits like they could, etc. That's why you will find the spy deck is not too big of an issue. I have a better winrate with bloody Werewolves

I still think this change was really bad. Before the patch you had to to play you enforcers first before making a lot of damage. Now you drop them on the board and immediately start to gun your oppont down. We have seen way too many decks, there all is about dropping high value cards instead of more interactive engine decks.

 

[Pruny]

Enforcers should damage 1point for each spy, not 2
:mean:

 

[Khreygond]

I still think this change was really bad. Before the patch you had to to play you enforcers first before making a lot of damage. Now you drop them on the board and immediately start to gun your oppont down. We have seen way too many decks, there all is about dropping high value cards instead of more interactive engine decks.

Oh it's not a good change, I agree with you on that. It does make for an even more powerful deck. But no nerf suggested here can keep the deck viable. It's not OP, even with that change, in my opinion. Besides, they've lost the Standard 2 points of damage (which were actually 4 because you'd almost always pull enforcers with emissaries) so even when played they don't do that much damage (you'll rarely have 3 spies on the board, as Joachim is the finisher, Iris needs to be played after enforcers and Cantarella needs to be dropped late to make sure you get a silver or gold, not to mention to ensure you have engine units on the board to minimize the point swing she makes for your opponent.)

 

[Esmer]

NG is the second worst (after NR) faction now, and spies is not even the best NG archetype. Until some changes are made to ST (the best faction atm) and NR (the worst faction atm), it makes no sense to complain about NG, SK or monsters.

 

[Khreygond]

Hmmm highly subjective. Henselt Machines is one of the most powerful decks out there. Armor is not bad either.

 

[4RM3D]

Henselt Machines is one of the most powerful decks out there.

It has potential, but it's also susceptible to interrupts and bricked mulligans; a trade-off rarely found in NG Spies. Then again, NG Spies has other weaknesses.

 

[Khreygond]

It has potential, but it's also susceptible to interrupts and bricked mulligans; a trade-off rarely found in NG Spies. Then again, NG Spies has other weaknesses.

And so has everything, even Dwarves. Do people even realize what a bummer using Henry (Reveal is still one of the generally least powerful) on Hattori (staple of the currently assumed most powerful deck) is? Yet still, that's the nature of Gwent. Everything has its strengths and weaknesses. And spies are very hard to win with when Imperas are answered early on. Because you need to kill the emissaries to resurrect them anyway so as to reduce the chance you run onto an emissary with 2 Vicos as your choice.

Recently I had my worst draw on a spy deck ever. After the most intense deck thinning that I could do, I ended the game with 6 cards in my deck. 3 golds (except Menno) and 3 silvers (Cantarella, Joachim, Vanhemar). I started the game with 9 bronzes and one decoy after the mulligans. While the case I am describing is a bit extreme, bricked mulligans can always exist, even if they are nowhere near as prevalent in spies.

In short, everything has weaknesses, that doesn't make it any less powerful than it already is. Same goes for Machines, bears, and spies

 

[4RM3D]

And so has everything

The point was that Henselt's brickability (is that even a word?) is higher than other decks, the reason being twofold: one in the mulligan being bricked and two in the Henselt's trigger being countered. So, one must be extra careful when playing Henselt.

 

[Esmer]

Hmmm highly subjective. Henselt Machines is one of the most powerful decks out there. Armor is not bad either.

So the data based on 1 895 495 (almost 2 million) matchups is highly subjective, and your personal opinion isn't?

Henselt is indeed the best NR deck, but NR in general is in a bad spot, as can be seen from the meta report. It is the least popular faction above rank 19 and has low winrates across all of its leaders.

Do people even realize what a bummer using Henry (Reveal is still one of the generally least powerful) on Hattori (staple of the currently assumed most powerful deck) is?

Do you suggest to run one of the weakest decks to sometimes counter one of the strongest ones? Moreover, I believe that even without Hattori dorfs will have more than enough power to finish off reveal which still doesn't have a strong finisher.

 

[Khreygond]

So the data based on 1 895 495 (almost 2 million) matchups is highly subjective, and your personal opinion isn't?

Nope. The "data" you are talking about does not make a point about how powerful decks are, merely how popular they are. That's why talking about how powerful decks are is not an easy matter. Even with a better winrate than others, Dwarves being as powerful as they are is not indicated by their winrate really, but one knows by playing with and against them. More than once most of the time. Moreover, nowhere do I say that my opinion isn't subjective.

Do you suggest to run one of the weakest decks to sometimes counter one of the strongest ones? Moreover, I believe that even without Hattori dorfs will have more than enough power to finish off reveal which still doesn't have a strong finisher.

Not at all. I am saying exactly what I've summed up in the same post that you quoted me. That everything has weaknesses.