Stealth and Philosophy

[zeroarcanus]

Stealth and Philosophy

My only wishes for this game are these. It needs to include the philosophy about humans in its story and it has to be stealth oriented.
As long as I can sneak pass people and do only objectives without silly bosses(looking at your DE HR) I will buy this game on every possible system.
And to think there will be a story similar to Ghost in the Shell?
Maybe I want too much, but there isn't just a single open world cyberpunk experience and I'm worried.
I'm worried the only possibility for an open world cyberpunk-stealth game might fade away.

 

[Suhiira]

I seriously doubt the game will be "stealth oriented".
It may (and should) be an option in many situations, but hardly the focus of the game or it's mechanics.
RPGs are about interacting with the world and people around you to accomplish your goals.

 

[Claylex]

My only wishes for this game are these. It needs to include the philosophy about humans in its story and it has to be stealth oriented.
As long as I can sneak pass people and do only objectives without silly bosses(looking at your DE HR) I will buy this game on every possible system.
And to think there will be a story similar to Ghost in the Shell?
Maybe I want too much, but there isn't just a single open world cyberpunk experience and I'm worried.
I'm worried the only possibility for an open world cyberpunk-stealth game might fade away.

I agree that the story should only revolve around humans.

This isn't shadowrun.

But for stealth? Nah. Sure it should be an option in all the missions to do a stealth run but it shouldn't be a MAIN thing.

 

[Shando92286]

I would say just make a stealthy guy then. Let us aggressive types have fun, too!

 

[Narshredder]

Hmm I doubt the game will force you to play stealthily. But being an RPG I would assume you can play many types of character builds (Aggressive, Ranged, Tank, Stealth, etc..). I'm hoping that this game will feature a smooth cover system though. Without a good cover system such as GTA V's and MGSV's stealth will be clunky and awkward.

 

[chriswebb2020.736]

As has been pointed out, a wide variety of gameplay options should be available, allowing several approaches to each problem, (along with problems inherent to each approach.) Stealth should, (and most likely will be,) a valid option.

As for philosophy, I think you are referring more to post-cyberpunk and transhumanism, which is much more Deus Ex and Ghost in the Shell. The key to cyberpunk is self. It's not about saving humanity or a group of people, it's all about you and what you need, what you want and making sure you're alright. There is room for philanthropists and the greater good, but it shouldn't be a key feature.

Take Neuromancer as an example. Case is potentially putting the fate of the world at risk by following through with his actions, but he does it anyway and doesn't really care, because he wants to save his own skin, maybe Molly's too. Everyone else is pretty expendable.
But there is philosophy and there is the occasional epiphany, but the Protagonist is primarily concerned with self preservation.

That is cyberpunk.

 

[Sardukhar]

These are all good points. I value each and every one of you. Some of you twice.

 

[matsif]

Stealth oriented? nah. Agreed with basically everyone else: it should be an option, but not the focus. Part of cyberpunk is style and being noticed, how am I supposed to be the big bad biker nomad if the whole idea is to not be seen? Or the super-strong chromed out bruiser? Or a cop who I want to play like Judge Dredd? All orienting the game towards stealth does is limit play styles and options for the player. If you want to be the super-sneaky guy it should be a style available, but by no means the main way to play the game.

as to philosophy, well chris and claylex said it best above. human focused is a given unless they decide to do something like introducing aliens, but this isn't shadowrun, there's no future elves. and while transhumanism and such will almost certainly be involved in the game in some parts, there is much more to cyberpunk than just how cybernetic augmentations impact the human condition.

there's so much content that makes up the cyberpunk genre that CDPR limiting themselves to just a transhumanism stealth game would cut out a plethora of things that make cyberpunk the diverse universe that it is.

 

[111elf]

I would love to see the inclusion of stealth and pacifist solutions as an optional element - I think the Deus Ex series and Vampire Bloodlines did this pretty well. I think by being optional it would offer a lot in terms of philosophy by confronting the player with his or her decisions.

I still remember how shocked I was when I found the hidden data pad in the 'Ton hotel in Deus Ex - where the nsf terrorists suddenly appeared like real humans and my own actions made me look really bad.

In Cyberpunk - with all the options to enhance your body - it could be very interesting to explore the theme of humanity. For instance when you focus entirely on building a perfect "soldier" - what does that mean for your character? Especially with the possibility of "losing it" - are you still human when you spend all your efforts into becoming an unstoppable killing machine? What happens if you avoid violence and the people you spared can freely continue to oppress others or even kill people?

I would love to see the story and characters react to your actions. I think when you commit cruel actions then people around you shouldn't just ignore it - it should at least have consequences for the way they see you (which could be shown through dialog for instance).

I think the player should be given as many options as possible. Maybe it would even be an option to give enemies a real beating and tell them to shove off. That could also lead to some of them being mad at you and teaming up trying to get back at you...

So many possibilities ^^ I'm curious where CDPR are going to go with this game!

 

[Suhiira]

In Cyberpunk - with all the options to enhance your body - it could be very interesting to explore the theme of humanity. For instance when you focus entirely on building a perfect "soldier" - what does that mean for your character? Especially with the possibility of "losing it" - are you still human when you spend all your efforts into becoming an unstoppable killing machine? What happens if you avoid violence and the people you spared can freely continue to oppress others or even kill people?

That's exactly what your characters "Empathy" and "Humanity" stats are about.
You start with Humanity = Empathy x 10 but each and every piece of cyberware you add reduces your Humanity. When it's reduced to about 20 you're not a person most people feel comfortable being around, at 10 it's probable you have a serious psychological disorder and really should be locked up someplace, hit 0 and you totally lose it. You've seen the Cyberpunk trailer? The girl surrounded by bodies hit 0 ... at that point the cops usually just shoot you because the paperwork is simpler.

 

[111elf]

Interesting! Thanks for the insight I knew the rough story/background for the trailer but I had no idea it's also directly in the rule set! That kind of theme really suggests itself and it would be really great if we got to see that in the game